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Erwin Szeto [00:00:05] You see, this episode is brought to you by the Halton Real Estate Investors Group on April 28th at Sheridan College in Oakville, Ontario. The Halton Real Estate Investors Group will be hosting a joint venture expert, Joey. We’re going to where he’ll be sharing his secret JV formula, where partners fit around his schedule and his investment strategy. We also will be hosting nearly because myself and many other investors enjoyed the paid version of neighborly, but now it’s free. Jerome, winner of Nimboli, will be coming in to explain how the automated, automated data gathering in the tenant risk analysis works in plain English. We were happy to pay for it before, but now it’s free, so we’re happy to host Jerome and neighborly. Plus our regular from the streets update on rents and prices in targeted investment areas. We will have April’s Best Buy property and the meeting is followed by our street smart tour of one of the top areas for investment in Ontario. To register, go to the WW Dot. Truth about real estate investing dossier slash meeting Again, that’s Dubeau WW Dot Truth about real estate investing, dossier meeting and I hope to see you there beating rental licensing, investing in apartment buildings and cryptos with Mike Uliano. My friend Mike Iliana was many things about your gardener, a foodie expert in the restaurants in the Negev region, and then also goes for apartment buildings. Mike is also the. He also led a coalition of Niagara landlords to fight the city of St. Catharines in Ontario A. Superior Court, and one thus allowing US student rental investors to operate our safe, clean rental properties for young adults. My advice and lessons are now more important than ever as a couple of major region towns, including Welland and third, are in the middle of implementing licensing, as well as St. Catharines, which is currently considering rental licensing. I’ll include a link in the show notes for the city’s survey on what your thoughts are on rental licensing. Mike is also a savvy stock investor who consistently outperforms the market and when folks know how to make money. That always piqued my interest. He also trades cryptocurrencies again piqued my interest, including bitcoin. So if that interest to you, you will want to listen to hear how he does it. So without further ado, I give you Mike Iuliano. Sorry, maybe Alaska is trying to shut down a different application because it is popping up on me and I shouldn’t make Skype accident, sorry, so I start over.
Mike Iuliano [00:02:31] That’s okay. Yeah, no problem.
Erwin Szeto [00:02:33] So interesting things. Are you up to these days?
Mike Iuliano [00:02:36] Oh, right from the start. Yeah, no. I’ve been keeping busy a lot now. As the snow is melting, you kind of start to see the real estate investors come out and start looking to buy things, start doing renovations. A lot of contractors even take their vacation in the winter if they have a chance to. And we have a little bit of a slowdown, but I’ve been starting to rent out a lot more apartments lately and show a lot of student rooms. And as school starts, it’s going to be ending once April is done. There should be a new wave of students coming in. Are students going into a summer period where they might be working or they might be taking some classes so that a lot of turnover that happens for me first for university students and college students, for rental properties.
Erwin Szeto [00:03:22] Okay, so that’s a mouthful. Can we maybe start with some, maybe some tips on areas you would suggest investors to be looking at? And then some strategies like, for example, like, for example, a lot of a lot of my own properties were having to renovate it a lot nicer. It seems like tenants are really care about appearances like they want the stone countertops and they want the stainless steel appliances. Like, it’s almost like every renovation we’re doing right now. Whenever we have to do a countertop or an appliance, we’re going all stainless. What are you seeing?
Mike Iuliano [00:04:00] Well, I would say, I mean, I assume that when you’re when you’re saying that, are you saying across the board or is that more of a Toronto area thing for you?
Erwin Szeto [00:04:07] Oh, no, because there are properties in Hamilton and even my St. Catharines property, I we’re going to stone countertop. It’s just, you know, I think that the countertops have been replaced twice. Just a young person put a hot pot on it like a laminate countertop and then, yeah, you can’t, you can’t repair that damage. So yeah, yeah,
Mike Iuliano [00:04:24] just from my perspective in Niagara here, I mean, I would say that that’s becoming normal here, but it’s not standard. Most landlords, especially if they’re local landlords, they wouldn’t go through all that effort. And they it’s just I think it’s probably more common, maybe in Hamilton or higher priced areas, I would imagine. But it’s spreading here. And what’s happening is our markets are a bit competitive now. There are a lot of people in the Niagara market for Brock University or Niagara College. So if you want to stand out from everyone else, you can do exactly what you just said. And now only a small percentage of the market was willing to do what you just said because you take it, you’re taking out a line of credit or using some cash to totally make your property look more modern, have more features to it. So if you do that, I think you’re going to get your property leased more easily year to year, and you’ll be able to get the full price with less haggling with the people showing up, right?
Erwin Szeto [00:05:24] So what kind of property are invested or tenants preferring to delete the high rise apartment buildings or the preferring like the duplexes, which just seems to be a common strategy for a lot of investors these days? Or they want they want their own house, just single-family.
Mike Iuliano [00:05:41] I find that basically, I think, you know, if you put yourself into the shoes of a young couple or maybe someone just getting married, or even just a young professional on their own, if you’re 25 years old, let’s say, and you have a job, maybe even a good job, you might not be able to afford the housing depending on your situation. So maybe you can’t purchase, even if you’d like if you’d like to. Sometimes if you’re a teacher, that’s a great job, but maybe you only have a one year contract. So there’s a lot of young professionals, whether they’re single or not, that are looking to rent, in my opinion. And I think it’s a good it’s a kind of a landlord’s market in the sense that there’s a lot of good young professionals out there, but they may not, may not be ready to jump two feet in the market yet. So that’s an advantage as a landlord. And if you have a nice quality property, I think you’ll find people that’ll appreciate that that would otherwise be owning and would like something nice.
Erwin Szeto [00:06:35] Right? So the real estate that you deal with is Niagara Region. Are you seeing many commuters, people from out of town? Like what I like more towards GTA. Are they coming from there?
Mike Iuliano [00:06:47] in terms of driving to go work in the GTA? Yeah, not so much. I mean, you hear about them, but if you really think about it, I mean, maybe if you live in Toronto, it’s a little more in the GTA. It’s more normal to drive 45 minutes or an hour each way. If you live in Niagara, you pretty much don’t do that. I mean, I have a friend that drive to Hamilton every day, but most people I know Niagara work here. And so to really go and drive from here to there, I don’t see too much of that yet. No answer your question. So I think that basically the Go Train is proposed to come to Niagara for 2021. And if that were to happen, then potentially you’d see people that may be currently live in Hamilton or Burlington saying, Well, I can get the same house for considerably cheaper Niagara. And maybe they’ll also gain value as the go train approaches. And maybe they’ll use the go train or commute to Hamilton or Burlington at that point, maybe, but we haven’t seen any big, noticeable influx of people just uprooting here.
Erwin Szeto [00:07:47] Interesting. Yeah, there was an article in January that actually said like one third of transactions for. Property purchases in the Hamilton, one third of them were done by agents from outside of Hamilton. As in like, they didn’t belong to our board, so I thought, OK, interesting and now and landlords, sorry, property managers have confirmed that in terms of the rental market as well, they’re seeing more and probably more than a third of tenant applications are coming from the GTA area. I think there’s the eventually will be more spillover to the Algarve region considering how much more affordable it is. St. Catharines average price for a home is like at least at least like one hundred twenty thousand dollars less right than the same home in Hamilton. So you have a lot of affordability advantages.
Mike Iuliano [00:08:37] Even me here I do Pro Property Management in Niagara and I can confirm what you just said in the sense that a lot of people purchasing real estate are from out of town, more so than tenants. It’s the purchasers of the real estate that are from out of town. And if you were in Niagara 10 years ago, you met people from out of town investing here, but there was no equity gains. Really, it was very minimal and they might have been investing here for cash flow. So now you can get a little mixture of both, but it’s the equity that people are chasing, I find, and that’ll pull a savvier investor from the GTA or Hamilton that maybe has been going from Bury to Hamilton to Toronto and following value investments. And a lot of those folks have been investing in Niagara, and it’s the market has really heated up here in the past two to three years. We’ve gained a lot of value each year and prior to that, prior to the go train and a few other things we have going on here, we really didn’t have an equity driven market. So things are kind of picking up in the general Niagara Region here.
Erwin Szeto [00:09:48] And the markets, as I was trying to put in a presentation, didn’t seem to be handy. Oh, no, there it is. Everyone, I want to ask you. So if you’re an investor, your new your new investor to say, Katharine’s Nagarajan, what would you what would you be recommending they do right now?
Mike Iuliano [00:10:11] For me, I mean, you know, if you ask 10 different people this question, they’re going to give you several different answers depending on which investor you’re talking to. I would say personally, you know, I like newer product and I have a bit of a biased reason for that. Just being living in this community, I kind of know how it works. If you want to be. If you’re a young couple or a young professional and you have the financing to buy a brand new built house, you pretty much can’t get one unless you know a builder at this point, a small builder, the advertised large builders that have their billboards up and large parcels of land. They’re sold out for years to come, and they’ve been sold out already for several years, going backwards. So it’s very, very difficult to land those newer properties. And for that reason, I feel that their pricing is getting beat up more than a standard property.
Erwin Szeto [00:11:05] Yeah, it’s funny. I remember I had a listing for a bunch of townhouses in downtown St. Catharines that didn’t sell. That was like four years ago.
Mike Iuliano [00:11:12] I remember those ones.
Erwin Szeto [00:11:13] Yeah, you know, that place all happening now.
Mike Iuliano [00:11:17] Yeah, those have been bought and sold depending on the one that’s come up. And I can only imagine they’ve gained like, you know, 50, 60 percent value since then, at least, if not more. I mean, they’re really nice, nice properties.
Erwin Szeto [00:11:30] So the February stats are over for Niagara Region, so specifically Niagara Falls that market, so the average price and this REIN. I’ll make sure I get this right. OK, so the average price for a home in Niagara Falls in twenty eighteen was three hundred and forty thousand. And now the average in February is four hundred and eight thousand dollars, while $6000, which is like three percent across all, not quite 20 percent in one month. But yeah,
Mike Iuliano [00:12:08] when I was following the pricing, I mean, in 2015, the General St. Catharines market was up, I think 15 percent. And then in 2016 it was 16 percent. And last year it was, I think, 26 percent. So those are pretty good and that’s just the average. The properties that are prime location, newer properties that were not much more than that. And then those below average, maybe poorly maintained homes didn’t go up as much as the average. So that’s very meaningful for Niagara because we used to be, you know, three, four or five percent equity gains. Really, you wouldn’t expect much more than that prior to the past three years. Right, right.
Erwin Szeto [00:12:47] Uh, now what would you recommend for someone who wants to go to St. Catharines for four student rentals or that area if you want? Or do you think people should be getting into or getting out of?
Mike Iuliano [00:12:59] If you want to do bra rental specifically, I mean, that’s our university and it’s the largest population of students compared to Niagara College. There’s, I believe, over twenty thousand well over twenty thousand students at Brock now, and it is the biggest market. But for that reason, there was quite a bit of competition because most people can see that if you just observe the population of students. Also, Brock University, unlike I believe in Hamilton. If you go by McMaster that housing pretty much right across the street from the school and most towers, most cities are set up that way with their universities. St. Catharines doesn’t have that. We’re surrounded by an escarpment of kind of forest and trees, highways. MacDonald There’s really no housing near the school, so if you just own anywhere kind of surrounding that university, you’re at an equal playing ground with any other investor. And so it’s quite competitive. I’d say if you’re going to invest in Brock Rentals, you’re doing it for the equity you you’re going to be doing. If you’re getting in at today’s prices as opposed to two or three years ago, especially right at this point, you’re kind of hopping on equity and you’re going to have to do a lot more plug and play with your students because they have a lot of options. If you go the route, you said that’s the way to do it. So if you want to distinguish yourself from the rest of the competition, put in the granite countertops, the nicer appliances, change your flooring and baseboards and old doors and wallpaper and all that stuff. If it exists in the property, if you do all that updating, then then you should be OK to stay rented. But you’re going to need someone as a manager or you yourself being flexible to do that plug and play and kind of maintain that
Erwin Szeto [00:14:44] and maintain and maintain those relationships and check on her property because students aren’t always the nicest to their to their rental property and their appliances and the rental property.
Mike Iuliano [00:14:58] And you are never and you never know that going in. Unfortunately, you don’t discover that until they’ve moved in, because sometimes they come through even with their parents, and you just don’t know if they’re going to be clean, necessarily when they get in there. So in some rental properties, you can even hire a cleaning lady to come in once or twice per month. If you build that into your enterprise and at least your common areas get cleaned
Erwin Szeto [00:15:20] and they can be your eyes on the property.
Mike Iuliano [00:15:23] Exactly, exactly. They get a chance to begin on things. So with student rentals, I think basically if someone if you want to have something that kind of work. In the background for you and has less variables and less perceived risk up front, I would say maybe you might be better off getting a little duplex that you don’t have to deal with students going in and out every year. And if you can try and aim for a more stable long term tenant. But if you buy in a strategic student location and the city keeps going up in value, those prime locations will gain a lot of equity, even though it might be an older home. Mm hmm.
Erwin Szeto [00:16:01] I’m really happy with my with my Jacobsen properties near the Penn Center. For anyone who understands, who knows the layout of St. Catharines.
Mike Iuliano [00:16:07] Just as an example, even your property on Jacobson is just a small bungalow, right? But it’s low, the location, which is the value because there’s little bungalows like that all over the city and little bungalows in the area, you’re referring to on Jacobson Avenue are simply more valuable just because of where they are. Yeah.
Erwin Szeto [00:16:27] So one more question for Ron Rentals. What’s key to picking a location for your student rental?
Mike Iuliano [00:16:36] Well, I can only speak for Niagara, so every region might have its own little differences. But in general, if you’re if you’re going and approaching a market, let’s say like McMaster or even locally where I am, you have Niagara College in Welland and Niagara College on Niagara, on the Lake. There’s another campus. So those campuses have housing right across the street from the school. I personally would target that property that’s located across from the school, and there’s two schools of thought there. Some people might say, Well, that’s the most expensive property, Mike. So why would you approach that? I would say it is, but it’s also going to gain the most value if you’re a long term investor and want equity. So if you buy far away from the school, you might not be able to get full as easily. You might not be able to charge as much rent to the students if you have that prime location property. It’s going to be an easy sell for you, in my opinion, assuming that it’s either a newer house that you’ve maintained or an older property that you’ve made to look almost like new. So if you combine location with the proper condition, you’re going to be in the top probably 10 or 20 percent of landlords that are willing to do that, as opposed to having an older property with some lipstick and some make up on it, so to speak, you have to have a nice, a nice property, right?
Erwin Szeto [00:17:53] So I said last question Winston rentals. But because I want to ask you about like when you went to bat against the city, you could talk about that like so because, yeah, I think a lot of people I know a lot of investors are running to this now, and I was concerned. I think like Hamilton, for example, was they? I think they put it to vote. I think they voted it down. I don’t. People always. That’s funny because like, you live it around a school, you should kind of expect to be there to live like students. So do you know why or how it started? What kicked things off? Like what was the catalyst in St. Catharines for their push for rent licensing?
Mike Iuliano [00:18:38] Well, I mean, you know, I went to Brock University in St. Catharines, so I started as a student. And once I was done being a student, I bought my first house and it rolled into property management. And I’ve gained a lot of experience over the past 10 or 15 years of being a student and the landlord. So, you know, as a student, you know, sometimes you have certain students or certain homes where they have parties and get rambunctious. There’s certain, you know, people that don’t put their garbage out cause noise issues. There’s there things that can happen at certain homes, especially if it’s a student home. It can happen in non-student homes, as you know, the regular rental rentals where people can cause old problems. But it seems to be prevalent in university students who are, maybe, you know, enjoying some alcohol or living together with a bunch of young people. So in general, even when I was starting in property management back in 2005, I was being told stories from clients about how they get approached by the city or the fire department. If there’s a party at their house, they get a specific visit at that time. So because of those incidents happening over the years and over the decades with university students, these neighborhoods that are located close to the school have a lot of long term residents in there that don’t appreciate that basically. And sometimes there even newer built neighborhoods, which you’re familiar with near Brock University and you have people that are raising their young children there and they want they have almost a zero tolerance for that stuff and they have a right to have, rightfully, they have a big mortgage on an expensive home they had. It may be custom built for their taste, and now they’re dealing with these issues. So that’s really the driving force behind that is that you have a number of residents who pay their taxes and voice their opinions and justly, justly so. I mean, you can’t blame them. And then the city kind of has to respond in some manner to make the voices be heard. That that’s really what it comes down to.
Erwin Szeto [00:20:37] So what year was that when they when the city responded and they were like knocking on doors?
Mike Iuliano [00:20:43] Well, what you’re referring to is when they gave hundreds of people notice as essentially so as opposed to this party, had a house and there’s toilet paper in the tree will approach that house. It was more just now we’re letting everyone know. Here’s a letter describing that we think you’re a rental property and we think you’re aborting, rooming and lodging house. It was kind of a generic. It wasn’t specific to your address or the design of your home. It was just saying, basically, call us, confirm with us that you’re a rental property. Let us look through your property and then we’ll kind of determine, you know, how you’re operating it, basically, and whether there should be additional rules placed on you. It was kind of basically volunteer to have us come inspect your house and. And they how do you say this? They conveniently only give it out in locations where there was a high density of student rentals.
Erwin Szeto [00:21:35] And then what would happen if you invited them in?
Mike Iuliano [00:21:39] I mean, geez, I was talking the people at the time. I mean, I had people calling me and I was calling people just because, you know, I wanted to see, did you did you call or do you know anyone that called because we weren’t sure what to do yet? I kind of said to my clients, you know, to kind of wait and see what happened because it wasn’t like they received some kind of a mandate or a registered mail. It was a very generic letter. It wasn’t specific to their property or any incidents. So I just said, let me kind of see what everyone else is doing. And when you when you make the phone calls, you have different people out there. You have people that can’t go to sleep at night until they figure out the answer to the question. And they called right away because they were worried about it. So I know people that called they had the inspection done. And once the inspection is done and you have allowed them and permitted them to come to your property, they’re required by law to give you a notice about any deficiencies, so to speak. So if they
Erwin Szeto [00:22:37] decided based on zoning or building code or fire code or
Mike Iuliano [00:22:42] they were giving, they were giving their interpretation of all of these codes in terms of building code and fire code. And they were basically they were basically saying if you had more than four occupants and then they lifted off some other parameters that you could be considered aborting, rooming and lodging house example.
Erwin Szeto [00:23:01] I have. I have a wife and two kids and a nanny. I’m running on my burning, a boarding home.
Mike Iuliano [00:23:07] And then you could see how it all the parameters they set were very loose. There wasn’t specific to your property. They didn’t see anyone leases. They just knew that there were a certain number of properties out there that had these parameters potentially in place,
Erwin Szeto [00:23:21] and there wasn’t any way to do what they found. So they came into my home and like, there’s five people living here. What would happen then, if
Mike Iuliano [00:23:28] they if they if they came into your home with your wife and kids? It was this weird situation where they can’t say, We’re going to go pick on students. You can’t just pick on elderly. You can’t just pick on students. You can’t just pick on Canadians. You can’t just pick on a certain sector of society. So they said it was all rentals. But when it came down to it, they were defining boarding houses as being the set up for student housing. So in your example, you’re not paying with all individual checks. You’re literally a family that’s blood related to all these.
Erwin Szeto [00:24:01] Oh, don’t ask to see the lease Halton that I know that. How do we know, right?
Mike Iuliano [00:24:06] They didn’t know. They just gave everyone a notice and they were they were basically fishing to see who was in which situation.
Erwin Szeto [00:24:12] Basically, it is not very nice because the people who voluntary come forward usually aren’t the problem.
Mike Iuliano [00:24:18] They’re the people who are the problem would never, ever volunteer to
Erwin Szeto [00:24:22] be the last to volunteer.
Mike Iuliano [00:24:24] Yeah, that’s the way it works. But at the same time again, they have a number of complaints from taxpaying citizens, and they do have to address that. So the people who called in volunteer got inspected and once the fire department in the city were to see what in their mind was a deficiency for, you know, a boarding house. Because once you’re once you’re defined of the boarding, rooming or lodging house, you’re almost treated like a like a hotel or something. I mean, like a boarding house, you have to have all emergency lighting through all your hallways. All these HVAC system upgrades, all kinds of over-the-top renovations, which is not
Erwin Szeto [00:24:58] typical capital costs.
Mike Iuliano [00:25:00] Yeah, exactly. So most student rentals don’t have to go through a lot of these things that it’s more meant for a rooming house or like a temporary stay type location where you would need that. But basically, the people who volunteered were deemed as a boarding house and given a notice taped to their door, which they could not remove. And it stated all of these changes they had to make to the house, which if you have an older bungalow, which is, you know, 90 95 percent of the properties near Brock University, basically, you know, you don’t have a separate walk out to your backyard, you don’t have all of these things that a rooming house or a boarding house would need. So in order to keep your tenants in place, let’s say you have six students. And if you want to keep all six in there, you have to do this 10, 20, 30 thousand dollars’ worth of work to allow you to keep those six or seven people in there
Erwin Szeto [00:25:52] or change your zoning. Did you change your use as well?
Mike Iuliano [00:25:56] Which rates? But for a residential home, you know, it’s you’re kind of limited. So basically, they were saying, you have to do all of this work or you have to limit yourself to four or less tenants in that property. So the people who are really honest at the beginning, I know some people that did the 20 30 thousand dollars’ worth of work. I know some people that sold their rentals. I know some people that went to for tenants instead of six. Mm-Hmm.
Erwin Szeto [00:26:22] And then what did you do to because you were? You’re the rabble rouser.
Mike Iuliano [00:26:29] Well, I mean, you know, no one was trying to cause any trouble or anything, but a lot of us felt like we were pretty good landlords and we were kind of being singled out due to some students who caused problems and caused, you know, neighbors to not to not be happy, basically. We don’t want neighbors to not be happy. I mean, I was a student at one point as well. I understand how it goes sometimes, and there some students are more rambunctious than others, but it’s not really. You shouldn’t paint all students with a brush of being party animals, and they shouldn’t live in your neighborhood, especially if you live near a school that that school is part of your economy. I mean, Brock University helps drive this Niagara region, and if it were to go away, it would be bad for the residents of Nyack,
Erwin Szeto [00:27:15] and I’ve never had a had a serious complaint of any properties. Yeah, yeah. There she went one time a neighbor, a really nosy neighbor who was this who actually discriminated against young people. He called the cops and the cops showed up in like the tent and then the tents were there, six of them on the driveway and the cops were like. This is what we got called here for two guys a step inside the property like seriously like you’re I know they police’s job is to serve and protect, you know, hear, hear that they’re being called away from whatever they’re doing to ask like six people to step off the driveway, go back inside the property. Yeah, that’s a really good use of their time.
Mike Iuliano [00:27:55] I know, and there are a lot of legitimate complaints being made. You know, I don’t want to pretend you don’t have no problems, but there are a lot. There are a lot of people that would like it to be, you know, pin drop quiet at night and all of that. And it’s just not reasonable, especially if you’re living in a student area. They’re probably going to stay up a little late at night and maybe be having conversations in their backyard. You know, they shouldn’t be blasting their music late at night. But even when I was a student, we were having a beverage on the back deck and we weren’t causing any problems. But just the fact that we were outside having a conversation and playing poker and having a little card game, we had the cop show up in her backyard and they kind of laughed, laughed it off and said that that neighbor has called them many times to this property and that it’s always been a student rental. And he complained a lot. So it’s there’s some people that call for any little reason, and some people that legitimately will only call because there was a really bad incident or a big party, you know? So yeah, there’s a mixture of both.
Erwin Szeto [00:28:54] There’s a mixture of both. And then there’s the other extreme side is like when we’re like, we’re talking about like those that new housing area called underworld like winter berry. And this happens like every major school like we had to memory after. I think like the homecoming party was like 5000 people, which I don’t like sort of policing and like, I love police. First of all, they have the chief the toughest job, but I don’t understand why when they’re advertising all over social media where the party is going to be, how come they’re not there already? You know, partly Dubeau cars like little bit of prevention,
Mike Iuliano [00:29:27] but it seems it seems as though almost as though they should be able to have a way of figuring that out. You know, at the same time, there’s a lot going on during that specific week at the beginning of a school year so that their time is quite stretched out and there’s a lot of maybe get togethers or parties going on by the neighborhood you’re referring to seems to have an annual bash, a huge party out in the streets every year, so they should be almost patrolling. They should be patrolling that neighborhood every hour or two on that evening. Yeah. You know, I would imagine, yeah,
Erwin Szeto [00:30:02] but we get off the top of the cop because I want to talk about more about what the what you guys were doing to fight the rental licensing. So what was the next step?
Mike Iuliano [00:30:11] Well, so at that point, I had done a bunch of fishing around and you get a different opinions of people that have called or not called and all of these different things. So I just said to myself, Well, we’re all in the dark and we’re being put in a position where eventually we’ll probably get inspected and be in some awkward position. Why don’t we just try to approach, you know, a number of other landlords and see if maybe we want to get together and talking to the city because, you know, we weren’t trying to be adversarial and we knew kind of why they were doing it in our minds. So we approached, you know, I got together a grouping of probably I mean, initially it was five or 10 property managers and landlords and it became 20 or 30 people. Then we formed an association and it became one hundred and 120 or 150 people. We actually formed an association where people chipped in and allowed a call.
Erwin Szeto [00:30:59] It was the association called.
Mike Iuliano [00:31:01] It was called an Agora Student Housing Association. And like I said, it was just a way for us to get together to kind of chat about what was going on. And in the background of setting all that up, I set up a meeting with the mayor of St. Catharines, the local fire department we were chatting with different people. And what we found was basically, you know, we were approaching saying, we understand that those problems and those specific problems should be addressed. But is there a way where maybe we can all work together and discuss, you know, we meaning me and other property managers and other landlords represented, you know, maybe hundreds of student properties? Why not just talk about it openly and honestly and try to figure something out about how we can solve the problems? They basically didn’t really want any part of that and just said that we had to comply to the letters that were given, and they considered houses of the nature we were describing to be a boarding, rooming and lodging house. There was no there was no leeway, basically, and it was very, very clear that that was just the way it was going to be. And no matter how many meetings we set up, we were on opposite sides of the spectrum and it wasn’t going to be something we could figure out that way. So at that point, we had all of our landlord meetings basically saying, Should we try to take action and talk to a lawyer or should we lose 30 40 percent of our annual income and limit to four students? I mean, it’s when you have six or seven students in a home and you’re going down to four tenants, it makes it not even a viable investment if you are just. Purchased the property recently, you’ve got to cover your mortgage, so it’s and then where all the students are going to live, I mean, if you can’t have more than four in a house, that’s great, but that just means you need more rental houses with four people. And then instead of six, and I tried explaining that I said, You’re fighting the problem of student housing, but you’re creating more student housing if you have less people per house. It’s kind of common sense not spread
Erwin Szeto [00:32:58] out to more neighborhoods.
Mike Iuliano [00:33:00] There’ll be more neighbors that have a student rental beside them if you limit it to less people
Erwin Szeto [00:33:05] because focus on that a place to live.
Mike Iuliano [00:33:08] The attendance of Brock University. The population of Brock University only is going up. So if you make the stricter rules on rental housing and limit how many people per home, you’re simply creating more rental homes for students, and it just really didn’t make sense to approach it that way. The problems you’re trying to solve would almost be made worse, you know, potentially so. We ended up approaching a lawyer who had dealt with it in London and dealt with student licensing, licensing and bylaws and things of this nature. And in his opinion, you couldn’t really limit the number of occupants if you were doing your due diligence and maybe doing your leases in an appropriate way and that, you know, we should fight them on it, basically. You know, he said, if they want to do licensing, they can do licensing, but something they can do, but they shouldn’t limit the number of occupants or call you a boarding house if you’ve set up your leases in your homes in a certain way. Right.
Erwin Szeto [00:34:11] So you get what the court
Mike Iuliano [00:34:12] with the city. We ended up going to court. We kind of had I mean, again, we either had to get inspected and sell or evict tenants basically change our way of business or we had to go through a lawyer and try to take them to court to see what the right answer was. So we chose to go that route again. We had people chipping in 100 or 200 dollars each and we were having open discussions about it with over 100 landlords locally. And we took it to court. I mean, when you go to court, you never know what’s going to happen. I mean, you could just go and spend five or ten or twenty thousand dollars and not get a victory. Or maybe sometimes you get lucky and you get a victory. So in this case, here we ended up getting a victory in court. Now again, this was based on a specific example rental property and a specific scenario. It wasn’t, you know, we weren’t looking at hundreds of different rental properties and hundreds of different lease leases in this court case. So if you’re listening to this right now, don’t assume that you can just go and do whatever you want with any, any different property. This was one specific property that won this court case. Right? So but what ended up happening was by winning the court case, you set a precedent that basically saying, you know, what was written in that letter is not true. And the public won’t necessarily accept it to be true anymore once we have that precedent. There’s going to be a lot of questions now if you approach someone with a letter saying you can only have four tenants. There’s now a precedent and a court case that says otherwise. And so we ended up winning, you know, we didn’t end up getting all of our money back to, I mean, we had people donate towards the cause. But once you even when you win a court case, you only get a little bit of the money back. So, you know, we were out probably ten or fifteen thousand dollars as a group. And if we hadn’t come together, I mean, who can afford to spend? You have kids or a mortgage. I mean, you can’t just spend $20000 on a court case, so we could only do it as a group. Mm-Hmm.
Erwin Szeto [00:36:08] And that’s why I suggest everyone buy you lunch whenever they come, visit or region.
Mike Iuliano [00:36:13] I mean, at the time here, I mean, I don’t know if you could see this here like draft you ended up.
Erwin Szeto [00:36:17] You still have it. Did you have that ready?
Mike Iuliano [00:36:20] and still have it available there? So we ended up getting in the newspaper and I mean, there were you should have seen it. I mean, every day, every week, there was one article slanted about how horrible students and landlords were. Then the next week there was an article saying, Well, not all students are bad, and not all landlords are bad. And it was this battle back and forth and the headlines and everyone was trying to make everyone else seem like they were improper or not doing things appropriately, basically. And it I really wish I could have been something that we could have been worked out mutually, but it seemed like we had to go to court in our specific case
Erwin Szeto [00:36:53] or we can. So for those listening and not watching the video, well, so Mike, show me the mike still has the newspaper clipping. Do you know what people can Google to find that newspaper article?
Mike Iuliano [00:37:07] If you Google this headline landlords win legal victory over City, you should be able to find it. And you could probably see that on your camera. But the title is landlords Erwin legal victory over City, and there should still be the write up about it there. If you want to read about it and that was in around 2010, 2011 was a time range that this all happened. So I mean, it was a big learning experience and, you know, even just leading back to one of your original questions there. If people ask me, you know, Hey, I’m new to Niagara. What should I invest in? You know, if they don’t state a preference of student rentals versus apartments, for example? I kind of tend to steer people away from student rentals just because if you’re not already an established investor in student rentals, you might not be used to some of the variables and plug and play that’s needed for that. And also, I just like the idea of having a multi-unit properties with more long term tenants in them and being able to let them kind of run in the background with a less bit less maintenance to them a bit less. Late night phone calls and random variables that you can have with student housing sometimes
Erwin Szeto [00:38:24] definitely be pickier like one am I Jacobsen properties. When my pen center properties, we just have it for rent available to anyone who wants it. So we’re just we’re screening the applicants they come in and just so happens that the that we have four students, they’re a bit older. I think they’re like. At least second or third year, at least. But they’re their application was stronger than others that they came in. So that works, that will work for us and that’s enough student students because there are so many other interesting things that you can have to talk about. Sure. Let’s talk about Taiwan stocks. I think it was stocks.
Mike Iuliano [00:39:11] Yeah, I I’m quite interested in the stock market, actually, I mean, I almost even more so than a real estate or equally with real estate. Yeah, I do a little bit of both and it’s a lot more variables at play when you’re talking about the stock market, that’s for sure.
Erwin Szeto [00:39:24] Right? But you wouldn’t you like you’re interesting in that you’ve been consistently like giving very good returns. Are you able to share like what your returns have been like? We just had a correction do like how are you doing after the correction as well?
Mike Iuliano [00:39:40] I mean, right now it’s March 27th here. And I mean, if someone’s listening to this here, I mean, you know, the market has not been doing that great this week. And we I think one of them was I think it was like the one of the largest single day point drops in the history of the Dow Jones happened this past week, actually one of the three worst days in terms of how many points had dropped. So a lot of drama going on. I’ve done well, but you know, it’s kind of like a real estate investor saying they’ve done well in the past five years or so. It’s, you know, it’s good to pick strategic location, but it’s easy to do well if the general market is kind of roaring behind you or to sell. Stocks and real estate are both in a heavy bull market right now. And so the returns have been very good, especially if you’re being strategic about it, which is kind of what you’re pointing at. You know, a lot of people traditionally think it’s hard to make five or 10 percent per year in the stock market and you give your money to a money manager kind of hoping maybe they do make you five or 10 percent. For me, I mean, I would be I would be pretty disappointed with a 10 percent return. You know, it’s just one of those things just because for me, I’ve studied it for a while and I have a little bit of a system down that I can make much more than an average return. When you have a really big bull market going on. So I mean, right now, this recent stock market drop, I haven’t really lost any money, so to speak, because I don’t really hold my positions all blindly. So I actually don’t own any Apple shares or Netflix or anything like that right now. So depending on how you’re working your strategy, if you’re holding blindly long term, you’re going to ride it like a roller coaster on every up and every down, and you’re just in it until the end. I kind of plug and play and try to buy after a big drop and get out before the next big drop happens is the ideal way, I try to time things.
Erwin Szeto [00:41:46] How do you do that?
Mike Iuliano [00:41:49] You know, I like to explain the people. You know, if you want to be a baseball player and you want to hit every pitch, you’re never going to make it. So you’re never going to hit every pitch and you need to accept that from the beginning. If you want to be one of the best baseball players in the world, you can bat 400, which means you only might get a hit 40 percent of the time. If you’re playing stocks and you’re aiming to hit every pitch, you’re going to be really disappointed. So that’s the first thing to get out of the way. Then if you add to that, it being a bull market, which from 2009 until today we’ve been in a bull market because of the stock market crashed in 2008, and we’ve been running upwards ever since then. So if you’re in a bull market like that and you’re using some chart analysis and buying opportunistically after large drops in price have happened for a quality company, you can really turn over a great return by buying in at strategic points in time. You know, it’d be like if you had a big drop in Real Estate, such as the USA happened in 2008. There were a lot of people started buying U.S. real estate due to the price being so cheap and then believing in the fundamentals of that country. You can apply the same logic to a stock or a company.
Erwin Szeto [00:43:06] What are some favorite stocks right now?
Mike Iuliano [00:43:09] Ah, right now, I mean, jeans, right now, everything appears visually to be on sale. I mean, you have Facebook that was given back what Facebook was one hundred and eighty hundred and ninety dollars not too long ago. And I mean, they went down to around one hundred and fifty dollars recently. There’s a lot of quality stocks that have had price drops on them. You know, what stocks do I like right now? I mean, I have a wide range of stocks I’m watching. I mean, I like Facebook as a long term hold. I think short term, if you’re buying in, Facebook is going to have a lot of ups and downs. They’re going to be having some court testimony and some privacy issues they’re dealing with. But I think right now you want to just be buying some quality stocks that have depth. If you can look even at an Amazon or an Apple or there’s so many at Home Depot, all these quality stocks. As long as the U.S. market doesn’t crash and we have a rebound as we always have in these situations since 2009, all of those companies will go up in value once the fear leaves people’s TV screens and internet browsers. Right now, you’re just seeing fear. And will the market crash that happened on every dip? And only when we start going back up to the upside does a media start talking in a positive manner again. So if you have the, how do you say if you have the fortitude to buy when everyone thinks the market’s going to crash, you tends to be rewarded with a further rally is the way it works during a bull market. At some given point, the market will crash or correct, right? But if you really look at it, a lot of investors almost think it’s going to crash every year, and they’re always kind of investing with that in mind that it can crash. But you tend to rally for five or 10 years between every crash. So you don’t you really shouldn’t expect the crash to happen every year. Right. And if you’re not scared of crashes all of the time and you buy when there’s a big correction in a stock that has great value in it, that’s what Warren Buffett does. So I try to do that as much as I can, and there’s certain chart analysis and technical indicators without getting too complicated with it that you can use to refine when you get in and when you get out to try and max maximize your return.
Erwin Szeto [00:45:40] Okay, so I want to get into that. But before that? So how long are you in your positions for? And let me take a step back, you know, a lot of investment theory, right or wrong? A lot of the teachers like buy and hold and just hang on. Even Buffett has talked about that before, just like as long as it’s a good company to get in and then forget about it. Yeah, that’s not what you do.
Mike Iuliano [00:46:04] It’s not necessarily what I do, but I also, you know, every person will be different. So I mean, you know, I don’t have children and I don’t have a commuting back and forth to Toronto. I don’t have a lot of variables that other people might have in their life. So I have to time. I have time to invest towards maybe studying the stock market a little more than some other people may. So, you know, if I had a busier lifestyle, for example, and I had a couple of kids and was commuting and busy, I would probably take a different approach too. So I think you have to pick what works for you. You also shouldn’t be trying to time stocks if you don’t know how. I mean, it’s one of those things. It’s nice to want to build a fence, but you need to know how to build the fence first. So I started looking at charts in stocks in 2005, and I didn’t get good at it until 2012 in terms of being able to make a consistent return and understanding how, how, how the market works basically and not always being afraid of it.
Erwin Szeto [00:47:05] What’s a consistent return?
Mike Iuliano [00:47:08] I would also back in 2005 onwards, you know, I might have done the Warren Buffett approach. I’d pick a company, pick a sector, and you kind of fall in love with that sector and you hang on to it because you have a belief in it. It had nothing to do with the chart or anything like that. So when you’re doing that, it’s I just find it so random and you have no control over it. And that’s kind of what the average person is doing. So you shouldn’t really expect to be overly successful by doing that, in my opinion. So I find that, you know, some years I’d be up maybe 30, 40 percent. The next year, I might be down 10 or 20 percent. There was no consistency to my returns, right? And when 2008 came, my money went down in value because I was blindly holding. And so I kind of learned through that process that maybe I should try a different approach.
Erwin Szeto [00:48:02] And what was that approach?
Mike Iuliano [00:48:04] Well, rather than just holding. And being oblivious to the fact that a market crash can happen and even beyond a market crash, you know, yes, in 2008, general stocks crashed. But prior to 2008, there was individual sectors or companies that crash, you know, it doesn’t always happen in 2008 or the year 2000. And all these famous dates where the general stock market crashed. You can have independent corrections and crashes in a certain stock or sector. So I started realizing that I shouldn’t just be looking out for a global stock market crash. I should be looking not to be hanging around for any crash or large correction on any company or any chart at any time. Mm-Hmm.
Erwin Szeto [00:48:52] So finish your thought. Go ahead.
Mike Iuliano [00:48:54] That’s more what I be. I mean, you know, in 2008 is when I began investigating that and I started saying to myself, Well, you know, how could I have known or how are how are these people on CNBC or BNN television in Canada? How are these experts who are much more experienced than me? How are some of them avoiding these crashes? You know, you start to kind of try and follow people of a similar thinking as you and learn from them in the same way that if you want to invest in student rentals, you talk to someone like Erwin or Mike or someone you know who maybe has dealt with five or 10 or 50 student rentals before for years. So I kind of did that with stocks, and I started to learn about market cycles and getting in and out of stocks as opposed to just holding them blindly. Right? And so,
Erwin Szeto [00:49:48] so did you accurately predict the last correction?
Mike Iuliano [00:49:52] The which one?
Erwin Szeto [00:49:54] Well, just a few months ago, you mean like the biggest one day drop in how long
Mike Iuliano [00:49:59] the recent correction here? Yeah. You know, it’s funny. The way it works is oftentimes I end up being out of stocks when I see a reason to exit or weakness in a stock chart for my own, my own reasonings. And it ends up leading to some major news and drama where things drop further. So I’m often on the sidelines when a drop is happening because you were completely, Oh yeah, I didn’t lose anything on this drop. I just I don’t I don’t own any shares. So I mean, I was, yeah, it’s I’m not saying I never lose money. There are definitely times where I have to sell out of a position and I lose a little bit of money. But what I’m doing is I’m trying to get in if there’s a major correction in a certain company. Even Warren Buffett bought Apple shares recently after they corrected quite a bit if you if you get into an investment opportunistically. And there’s a signal that I like and it says investors are stepping in, I can get in when there’s a big discount and try and catch a lift up, and I try to exit and take those profits rather than just letting them ride at that point. So because I’m doing that, I’m often out before a big, big downturn happens. I’m getting out when I see that direction change on a chart. And it’s not an exact science, but you don’t have to hit 100 percent to make money. So I’ve got it down to a bit of a system where I can make small losses and have large returns and have an average out to a two a good annual return. Right?
Erwin Szeto [00:51:37] And then, okay, so what are you predicting for the rest of 2018? Any more major corrections, you think? Can you see that far in your crystal ball?
Mike Iuliano [00:51:48] I mean, you know, the one thing that even professionals in this in the stock market will say is that you can always predict direction. And when something’s turning from bullish to bearish, you can determine direction, but you can’t determine magnitude. So I would say we’re still in a bull market. I can’t predict how high the market will be at the end of the year because, you know, you just you can’t predict exact numbers. But I would say basically that the current correction we’re in is no different than any of the last previous dips we had last year or the year before. It’s always panic in the streets, and then they start talking positively when the market simply goes back up again. Right, right. So I would say, if you’re hoping on a market crash, I don’t think it’s going to happen this year. And you know, there’s a whole number of reasons why I could say that, but it’s just the environment is not the environment where a crash should happen. And right now, I think the media is just hyping up a bunch of fear, basically which what they always do.
Erwin Szeto [00:52:54] So can we go on a tangent and ask you if you think there’ll be a crash in Real Estate?
Mike Iuliano [00:53:01] Are you talking about Canadian Real Estate? I assume. Yeah, OK. Well, I would say no for the short term anyways. I mean, you never know what’s going to happen in five or 10 years. And oh yeah, you can’t
Erwin Szeto [00:53:16] predict like nine 11 will happen. You can’t predict.
Mike Iuliano [00:53:20] You can’t predict if the lending practices will go crazy in the next five or 10 years. And we have a 2008 U.S. Real Estate correction. But I was actually in Florida helping people buy property in 2009, 10, 11 and 12. So I was studying that. And if you watched the movie The Big Short, are you study the little bit. They were lending money to anybody. I mean, you know, even if you didn’t have verifiable income, you were getting multiple properties with no money down and 40 year amortization. Any Canadian, even if you think you’ve gotten an easy mortgage, you didn’t get easy mortgages like that. I mean, it’s not commonplace. So they call them ninja loans. Ninja low no income,
Erwin Szeto [00:54:00] no job or assets. Yeah, ninja and ninja loans.
Mike Iuliano [00:54:06] Yeah.
Erwin Szeto [00:54:07] If anyone has any of our listeners are getting ninja loans? Please let me know because you know, you and I work with a lot of investors. No one, everyone’s getting scrutinized like crazy.
Mike Iuliano [00:54:20] Exactly. And you know, I’m sure there’s the odd lender that’s putting numbers down on a piece of paper. They shouldn’t, but it’s not commonplace the way it was in the U.S. you literally didn’t even need a verifiable income and they were giving you loans. So I don’t believe where, you know, they had
Erwin Szeto [00:54:36] a whole systemic issue like the whole like I. CDOs like Libya’s. The whole system was set up for that to happen. That doesn’t appear to be true here. Like our game, banks hold their mortgages for the vast majority, so they can’t just pass on the rest to someone else. All that’s right, garbage, then, because they can’t go bankrupt.
Mike Iuliano [00:54:59] It was a really mixed up situation, and a lot of people just say, well, us Real Estate Canadian Real Estate the same thing, and they kind of make the assumption that the Canadian real estate market can crash. I really don’t think that’s the case. I mean, I’ll do a little plug here. I’ve got a bunch of stuff on the side here. You know, write down Campbell’s book here. Secrets Secret Secrets of the Canadian real estate cycle. If you’re if you’re someone who actually studies Canadian real estate and studies it more seriously, I don’t think you’re as fearful of a crash. A U.S. style crash. Can there comes a time in the next five years or whenever or where? After moving up so much, we dip a little bit for sure, and it should happen at some given point. But we’re not some crazy U.S. style bubble. It’s, you know, I don’t expect that.
Erwin Szeto [00:55:52] Yeah. And if anything, from what I’m seeing, we’re already on the way back up. You know, we had our Aussie rule changes. We had our interest, regional interest. Interest rates have gone up already. Yeah. And based on what we see in January, February and March, because we’re seeing multiple offers like everywhere in this March, like we’ve had a correction from the peak. And like from the spring last year, prices have come down in many segments of the market, except for condos, condos in the GTA. But everything seems to be on the ticking, ticking back up.
Mike Iuliano [00:56:25] So that’s what I mean from my point of view, just in terms of the way things have gone. I mean, even back in 2009 and 10, I remember interest rates were five percent when the US real estate market crashed. And in Canada, our rates were approximately five percent on a mortgage. And we’ve been dropping our rates. I mean, nowadays we were we were able to get mortgages in the two to three percent lending rates not too long ago. And when you have interest rates drops like that, you expect the price to naturally go up. That’s kind of just the yin and the yang of how the market works for that. So what happened more recently as we had the foreign buyer tax net which was put out put on in Ontario and other regions, all have their own separate rules for that. Right now, there’s a provincial election coming up if
Erwin Szeto [00:57:16] you get rid of it
Mike Iuliano [00:57:18] in June. And Doug Ford, who’s the brother of Rob for the famous Toronto mayor, he’s going to be running against Kathleen Wynne. And I mean, not to get in too much into politics, but not many people like Kathleen Wynne right now. I mean, if you live in Ontario,
Erwin Szeto [00:57:33] the least favorite Premier Inn in Canada right now.
Mike Iuliano [00:57:36] Exactly. So, you know, personal opinion aside, the media talks about it openly that she’s not well liked in general. So you have Doug Ford coming in with almost an easy opportunity to win. And all the polls are showing a landslide win, potentially for the Conservatives with Doug Ford. If that happens, he’s promised to take away the foreign buyer tax, which is a 10 or 15 percent tax on the money. Exactly. So, you know, in that grind, I’m sure, in the GTA and Hamilton, they were part of the people who were driving the market, people from China and other countries coming in here. So from last May, when the foreign buyer tax came in until today, you don’t see bidding wars that much anymore in Niagara due to the foreign buyer tax. If in June Doug Ford wins, he’s promised to take that away. That’s going to be really bullish for Ontario real estate in general, right?
Erwin Szeto [00:58:32] Well, like you said, like he’s leading the polls. So again, like politics aside, it looks like this will happen. So yeah, do what you think will help you in your future. Fair enough about stocks. Actually, no, actually, I wanted to bring it up while we’re talking about picks. He’s talking about privatization of weed, and I know that you don’t know what it is but like on your on your invest. Like, make, invest, invest, like make right. There’s what’s called right.
Mike Iuliano [00:59:01] Yeah, I have a I have a free Facebook group where I talk about the stock market and analyze charts almost every day called Invest like Mike.
Erwin Szeto [00:59:09] So for those of you who are too busy to do what Mike does, you probably want to follow along in his Facebook group. Invest with makers is let’s invite only.
Mike Iuliano [00:59:17] It’s called invest like Mike and you can. If you just type an investor like Mike on Facebook, you’ll find it and you can request to join for free.
Erwin Szeto [00:59:26] But yeah, it just seems to be a hot topic with your group is that you guys are always talking about weed stocks. What would it mean if a PC’s win and they and they strapped the government behind? The world’s largest pot dealer. What does that mean for weed stocks?
Mike Iuliano [00:59:46] Yeah, that’s been a hot topic for people that are following that sector. I mean, some people might not follow stocks closely enough to really even studied the marijuana sector.
Erwin Szeto [00:59:55] Anyone talking about anyone who invest in stocks, it seems, seems to be weed is a is a hot area for discussion in cryptos, but we’ll get to cryptos later.
Mike Iuliano [01:00:04] Right? I mean, the thing for anyone listening to this, you know, I’m not sure who’s been following this as closely as I have, but one Justin Trudeau won in 2015 as the prime minister of Canada.
Erwin Szeto [01:00:16] Enrolled will be enrolled in Dubai to celebrate.
Mike Iuliano [01:00:21] He was very pro-marijuana and he was trying to gather the youth vote and the liberal vote. That was one of one of the ways he did it. So when he won, the marijuana sector went up in value quite a bit. On the day of his election onwards, they went up quite aggressively and with each announcement from then onwards, each positive announcement caused them to go up a little more. You know, there a lot of money that’s been made in that market, you know? Right now, it’s March 27th of twenty eighteen. I started watching this in August of 2016. I actually sent you a message about it. Erwin. I remember messaging you saying, you know, if you’re considering it, you should probably buy these two or three companies, which
Erwin Szeto [01:01:03] companies realize
Mike Iuliano [01:01:05] the while the one I was telling you about and it was the obvious. I call it the Home Depot of the marijuana industry or the McDonalds, the McDonalds of the marijuana industry, the top dog. It’s called Canopy Growth Corp., so it can apply Canopy Growth Corp. They’re by far the largest sized company in the most established company. And I remember in August of 2016, I bought them for three dollars and seventy six cents, and they went as high as forty four dollars not too long ago. So, I mean, that’s like a thousand percent return or
Erwin Szeto [01:01:39] while and you had it.
Mike Iuliano [01:01:41] While I actually didn’t hold it, I mean, I you know, again, I go in and out and I bought it at three dollars and seventy six cents. I went to $18, two or three months after I bought it. And then the same, they want the $18. They went to $9 in the same
Erwin Szeto [01:01:59] kind of wild ride.
Mike Iuliano [01:02:01] It’s a wild ride. I mean, you know, let’s call it the student, the student rentals of the stock market. I mean, there’s a lot, lot more variables at play. So you do have to be careful and you tend to get a lot of people rushing in that drove up to $18 and thought it can only go up. And that’s usually when a correction happens. So, yeah, no, I did not hold it blindly. And you know, in this specific scenario for looking back, you know, right now, we already know it went to $44. So you could just hold and done nothing and made a thousand percent. But when I bought it at three dollars and seventy six cents, I did not make the assumption it was going to forty dollars. So I couldn’t have known that at the time and I did not hold it blindly. But you know what, when I sold it at, I sold it at fourteen or thirteen dollars when I bought it that under four. So I made, you know, triple or quadruple my money with that initial investment. And I ended up seeing it drop all the way to eight dollars and I bought it back at eight dollars and eight cents. So that’s kind of the perspective I have on why I’m not holding blindly because I figured out a way to sell when everyone think it can only go up and it can never come down. And even if it goes. So when I sell, it peaked at 18, I didn’t sell at 18. I only got 13 or 14 dollars as my sale price. But it’s impossible to always catch the top. I’m just happy that I made a substantial return on it and that I kept it right.
Erwin Szeto [01:03:30] Any books you can suggest to listeners who want to trade the way that you do.
Mike Iuliano [01:03:38] In terms of books for the stock market, I mean, there’s so many I can grab a couple behind me. I just kicked the cord on the ground and now works on my high tech equipment if I pretty good.
Erwin Szeto [01:03:58] I thought you disconnected something and you reconnected it.
Mike Iuliano [01:04:00] No, no, no, no. So in terms of books, I mean, the first book everyone talks about is this one. This is the Warren Buffett way. Yeah, it’s called yeah. And there have been many revisions to it. This is the first edition, I believe, and it gets updated and rereleased as the years go by. This one, I mean, you know, who’s the most famous stock investor in the world, Warren Buffett, right? So that’s why this is a bestseller and a known book.
Erwin Szeto [01:04:25] We’ll talk about him later and we talking about cryptos.
Mike Iuliano [01:04:29] That’s a whole nother discussion. You know, when I say buy low and buy after a correction happens, Warren Buffett is famous for saying, you buy when there’s blood in the streets, when everyone else is fearful, you be greedy. And that’s, you know, that’s a Warren Buffett does it. If he buys into Apple, when there’s a big correction he buys into Bank of America after a big correction.
Erwin Szeto [01:04:50] Morgan Stanley after the financial crisis, perhaps mind you, if
Mike Iuliano [01:04:56] you’re someone who doesn’t know anything. If you’re someone who doesn’t know much about stocks and you don’t want to get as technical as you know, looking at stock charts every day, this is a good way to value, invest and look at it from a more generalized point of view. If you want to do passive investing and not getting in and out, then the Warren Buffett Way is actually a good general view of how to invest. If you want to get more technical, then I mean, there’s a million options out there. This is one that I’d recommend, and it’s not a book that everyone knows about, but the street smart guide for timing the stock market. It’s actually a pretty popular book. The bestseller the street smart brand covers a number of different topics. And if you go into this book, it was written in 2006, so it won’t talk about cryptocurrencies or anything that’s happening in twenty eighteen. But if you want to know how to analyze a stock chart and look up market crashes and how to invest and how to get in and out, the things that are in this book are still valid today in terms of, you know, the examples used in the way in which they teach you to view a chart. I apply. I apply it to modern charts. So that’s a very well-reviewed and trustworthy book, in my opinion.
Erwin Szeto [01:06:10] Street Smart Guide to Timing.
Mike Iuliano [01:06:13] The start guide, the timing, the stock market, if you look on eBay or Amazon, you might be able to pick up a secondhand copy then. Or maybe you can get a new copy. It depends how
Erwin Szeto [01:06:22] available they are by calling Alexander, and I just want I want to bring up. The point is, you know, some people have approached me in the past saying, Oh, you don’t do you don’t. You’re anti stock. You just you Real Estate like, I am a capitalist. I am pro everyone making more money so that can do better in the world. And however you do it as long as you’re not hurting anyone, that’s, you know, I applaud you. So in case anyone out there is like saying, Oh, there was a time out of stocks and on the podcast like, you know, you’ve legit consistently made money at this, so I think people need to learn about it.
Mike Iuliano [01:07:00] I mean, again, the thing is to I well, I will point out that, you know, I haven’t really had a losing year since 2011. I mean, once I figure it out, my consistent strategy, I’ve been making returns. I mean, it depends on the year, but you can make a 50 to 100 percent return without spending crazy amounts of time at your investments. I mean, once you have a down to a science, you can make pretty healthy returns. Some people might say that sounds crazy, but it’s really, it’s really not crazy. I mean, you have certain companies that might have tripled or quadrupled in value in recent years. It’s just what happens during a bull market like this. So some people may think you can only make five or 10 percent, and that’s a good annual return. And stocks are random. And it’s just that’s not the case, in my opinion and a mix of real estate and stocks, I think is the best way to do it if you don’t perceive either one as being a big risk and you understand them. I think it’s good to have a mix of both.
Erwin Szeto [01:08:04] Right. Right now, let’s move on to cryptocurrency. Are you able to use the same methods in your cryptocurrency investing?
Mike Iuliano [01:08:14] Ah, yes and no. So I mean, you know, cryptocurrencies, I’m sure everyone’s heard of bitcoin by now. Even if you don’t know what it is, you’ve probably heard of it six months ago or 12 months ago. A lot of people you could have said, you know, a bitcoin is if you went up onto a public mall, let’s say, 12 months ago and said, you know, bitcoin is, do you know what bitcoin is? Most people really wouldn’t know what it was. Even some people had heard of it. No one on one. Now, people of at least heard of it and not a digital currency at this point. You know, I know people that bought bitcoin in 2012 or 2011, when it was probably, I don’t know, 20 bucks and I went to almost twenty thousand dollars. So, you know, I’ve heard from people of all different perspectives. And you know, I remember having a conversation with someone who said, you know, they bought way back when and it’s gone to twenty thousand and it’s this amazing investment and it really has been for them. But I try to explain to them, nothing goes up forever. And, you know, back in 2009, 10, 11, there was people investing in gold that thought it would go up forever. Recently, it’s been bitcoin. There’s always something that people invest, and I think it will go up forever. So I’ve been through all that. You know, I saw that gold didn’t go up forever. I saw that stocks don’t go up forever. So when bitcoin came about, I started saying, you know, congratulations for making these great returns, but just be mindful that if you hold blindly, at some point there’s going to be a big gap. And, you know, people were kind of fighting me on it and saying, No, no, it’ll go up forever. It’s not like other investments. And that’s when bitcoin was, you know, fifteen thousand and then I went to nineteen thousand. It went down to like $6000, you know, and I’m not one to say I told you so, but I told you so. I mean, it’s just it’s kind of just the way it works. Nothing goes up forever. When you breathe, then you gotta to breathe out, you know, it’s just the way, the way it works. So to answer your question, I do treat bitcoin like a regular investment. But I think a lot of the hard core investors of bitcoin do not right, and they invest in it emotionally, like it’s going to go to a million dollars per coin and never going to stop going up. So I don’t view it that way.
Erwin Szeto [01:10:30] So let’s discuss them. The Georges For especially listeners who aren’t as familiar with cryptos, so like hardcore investors, they’ll actually buy the currency, they’ll actually exchange their dollars for currency, they’ll sign up for that or whatever, and they have their digital passwords and whatnot. You’re not doing that. You’re or you’re actually trading something else or you’re not.
Mike Iuliano [01:10:54] Well, OK. So there have been a little bit of evolution as to how I have been doing my cryptocurrency trading, maybe since we since we last spoke about it. Hmm. So let’s go back to 2017. OK, summer of 2017. If you knew what bitcoin was, you were. In the minority of society at that point, this was literally, you know, less than 12
Erwin Szeto [01:11:18] months, but how long how long is a bit of commitment around?
Mike Iuliano [01:11:20] I don’t want to guess. I don’t want to guess which year it began, but I think what happened was when the U.S. economy tanked and crashed in 2008. It was it came out of that crash, people saying, I don’t want to rely on the U.S. economy and the US dollar and the U.S. stock market and U.S. real estate market.
Erwin Szeto [01:11:40] That’s a way to get to where it was. It wasn’t.
Mike Iuliano [01:11:43] It was a way to run away from the uncertainty of the US economy for a subsector of society.
Erwin Szeto [01:11:49] Gold does that to you, OK?
Mike Iuliano [01:11:51] Yeah, exactly. So, you know, with my way of investing, you know, I’m a stock guy. And the way it works, what Erwin was referring to is if you want to buy stocks and you have a TD Waterhouse account, right? You can go to your bank, say, you know, put $5000 or however much money into my TD Waterhouse account, and that account allows you to buy stocks like Microsoft. OK. It’s held in your TD Waterhouse account. TD is an established brand. You can log in and see it anytime you want. If you wanted to buy actual bitcoin, you could not buy it through your TD Waterhouse or TD Bank. You had to sign up for this weird website, and there’s many of them. It be kind of like going to NFL.com or NHL dot com or, you know, imagine going to an instead of NHL dot com, going to J.H. ELLE.com and at some Hockey League you’ve never heard of you. You wouldn’t rely on the information that’s on that site. You wouldn’t even know what the G channel is. You only know what the NHL is. So if you’re someone used to putting in thousands of dollars into a stock to your Toronto-Dominion Bank account, are you going to load you’re the same $5000 into this random website called Kraken or Coinbase? And these new names that have no history behind them in the minds of most investors, right? I mean, who’s going to put serious money and upload it to this website and put it in jeopardy? So I wasn’t doing that. You know, I didn’t trust that. So what everyone’s referring to is last summer I began buying a stock or in a trust that represented bitcoin and was you could purchase it in the regular stock market. So I was buying a Bitcoin Trust. What was it? It’s the representatives. Ticker symbol is GBTC, and it’s called the Big Bitcoin Investment Trust GBTC.
Erwin Szeto [01:13:51] And if you want to know what to change
Mike Iuliano [01:13:54] while I use stock charts dot com to look up my stock charts, but there’s Yahoo, there’s Google Finance, there’s
Erwin Szeto [01:14:00] many. It’s OTC markets. I am so rusty at this stuff. Oh, I’m
Mike Iuliano [01:14:05] sorry. Right? It’s considered OTC over-the-counter. It’s considered a riskier sector of the stock market, essentially. And so you’re not going to see Microsoft as an Ötzi. Microsoft will be listed in the regular Dow Jones or Nasdaq. This is still a U.S. listed entity, but it’s an OTC stock, which was considered typically a more immature or a more risky and volatile area of the market. Interesting.
Erwin Szeto [01:14:37] Yeah. So and it follows the follows the price movements of bitcoin.
Mike Iuliano [01:14:42] Exactly. So if you were to go to stock charts, dot com and type in the ticker symbol GBTC, you’ll be able to see a representative diagram of the price movement for any company. So last summer, I said to myself, Well, I know how to read stock charts and I know how to buy stocks to Toronto-Dominion or Royal Bank. So I said, why not try bitcoin, then apply what I know about stocks and stock charts to bitcoin instead of just missing out on all of the action? I didn’t want to trust one of these random third party websites that I wasn’t familiar with and buy actual bitcoins. So last summer, I began using my child analysis and ability to enter opportunistically and exit opportunistically. And I mean, the first time I bought it, I think I bought it at, Oh geez, I want to say $250 GBTC was worth, and it ended up going up to, I think, four hundred and fifty dollars within a week of me buying it. And so I doubled my money very, very quickly. I took my money and it actually went to like five fifty. I went up higher than what I sold it at. But I didn’t care, and I’ll explain that. I mean, a lot of people, if they know that I went to five fifty, they want to know, Mike, what’s the strategy for making sure I catch the entire five fifty? I want to sell it, know five or five fifty. It’s tricky to want to do that. I think the more reasonable approach, in my opinion, is when can you enter? So you catch most of that move. That’s really what I’m doing. So, you know, I got in at 250 existed at four fifty. I almost doubled my money on it. Do I really care that I didn’t make more money? I really don’t. I mean, some people might not like hearing that, but it’s impossible to repeatedly over and over pick the exact top and exit at the top for any stock. It’s just it’s like Barry Bonds wanting to hit a homerun in baseball every time. You just can’t do that.
Erwin Szeto [01:16:47] Reason for steroids? I’m kidding.
Mike Iuliano [01:16:51] Hey, you know, if you have a lot of insider information, you could probably get everything right. But unless you know the CEOs of all these companies, you’re probably not going to pick the exact top. So, you know, it becomes almost like letting go of that, having some humility and saying, I know I’m not going to be perfect, but how do I maximize my return for the year? You know, you don’t have to catch the entire move from, let’s say, 400 to 700 on a stock. If you can even just catch part of that move and keep repeating that success, you’re going to have a good return at the end of the year. That’s more the approach I take at it, and I apply that to bitcoin through the regular stock market. I got in and out of GBTC three times successfully last year and probably made, you know, five or six times my money that I was putting in. I made probably five or six times my money using the stock market to buy bitcoin.
Erwin Szeto [01:17:52] So you talk about this as well on investors with Mike on Facebook.
Mike Iuliano [01:17:58] Yeah, the investor like my group, I talk about cryptocurrencies. I talk. I mean, I’ve been talking about the marijuana sector since twenty sixteen cryptocurrencies since last year, and I even get into a little bit of the Canadian economy and the U.S. economy and the factors that directly affect the stock market. Mm-Hmm.
Erwin Szeto [01:18:18] OK, cool. You’re OK for time.
Mike Iuliano [01:18:21] Yeah, I’m OK. All right,
Erwin Szeto [01:18:23] sir. Five, 10 more minutes. Yeah, you’re good. So I didn’t prepare you for this question. Oh, here we go. Hmm. So you almost died. So and we don’t have to talk about why or how or as more as I think the more interesting thing is that, you know, you beat it and then how do you live your life after you’ve beaten it?
Mike Iuliano [01:18:49] Yeah, so I mean, I’m assuming you’re referring to health challenges when I was a kid, basically. So, I mean, seven years old, I ended up having cancer when I was a little kid, and it’s probably something everyone knows someone in their friend or family network who’s had it. And I had a family history of cancer. I mean, it’s common in a lot of families nowadays. So it was probably a pretty scary moment for my family. I don’t remember that much of it back then, but I was lucky enough to have successful treatment and recover from it fully. So I think going through any experience like that, I have some friends that have gone through it even later in life. And I think, you know me as a kid, I didn’t really learn much from that experience as a kid because you’re a kid, right? I mean, you’re just playing video games. But as I became more of adult age, I kind of learned from the past experiences I’ve had, and someone who gets cancer as an adult probably starts to realize those things right from the beginning because they’re of an adult mindset. So I almost appreciate what I’ve been through more now as an adult than I did when I was a kid. And because I have realized that as an adult, I kind of I don’t really sweat the small stuff. A lot of people that know me, they don’t know me as someone who gets angry and even being a landlord. I mean, I have a long Fuze and a lot of tolerance for things, because no matter what’s going on at a rental property, there’s worse things going on in life. So it kind of gives me an outlook, and something pretty bad is going to happen to me in my life for me to be down on my life at this point because I’m just kind of grateful to be alive and healthy. And, you know, if you’ve ever been through this type of a scenario, I mean, you are a little kid in the hospital room. Some of the kids in my own hospital room aren’t alive today, so it gives you kind of a perspective that I was one of the lucky ones.
Erwin Szeto [01:20:49] Yeah, it was very real. You may not survive.
Mike Iuliano [01:20:54] Exactly. And I mean, I have relatives that have died of cancer. I mean, I’m one of the lucky ones that have survived that, and I’m sure that a lot of people that have been through that type of a scenario. So I mean, most I have a good friend of mine from high school to be cancer a few years ago, and it’s almost like we have a connection now. You know, we’re cancer brothers and survivors and even Brett Wilson from Dragon’s Den, you know, he publicly talks about being a cancer survivor, and I remember meeting him in person and there was that little connection we had together and we talked about that. And I think I think it’s easier to appreciate life and have a more open mindset to anything you’re doing. If you have that type of an experience, you know, like if you if you had no financial struggle, no health struggle, no family struggle, you might be going through things thinking everything’s always positive. But if you’ve been through some rough patches, whether it’s for health or personal or business or education, it helps you maybe view future events in your life differently. And also, most of the times when I encounter something, I subconsciously I’ve been through worse so I I’m able to stay calm headed and kind of enjoy my day to day life. I think and appreciate things a lot more.
Erwin Szeto [01:22:13] And you studied health science. It was a kinesiology, specifically in school.
Mike Iuliano [01:22:18] It was general health sciences. And then when you’re done that degree, you can then do anything health related from there, basically.
Erwin Szeto [01:22:26] Yeah, it’s in specifically want to ask like, but you’re pretty picky eater, not a picky eater. That are not. I think you do tend and may try to make healthy choices. So could you elaborate on that?
Mike Iuliano [01:22:41] Yeah. So I mean, having come to the health sciences program, I did a lot of research and I mean, I took the statistics course by choice two to the fourth year because I enjoyed stats and research quite a bit, actually. So even just in my personal life, I graduated in 2005, and now it’s many years later I’ve continued, you know, looking up peer reviewed journal articles, studying diabetes and cancer and all those things. So, you know, I remember when juicing wasn’t popular, I was kind of trying out juicing and kale and all that stuff back in 2000, 10 and 11. So I’ve tried to kind of stay on top of that type of stuff. I mean, I’m not going to pretend I’m a health, not you’re the health nut compared to me now, and I’ve gained a few pounds. But I know what you’re saying. I mean, I do grow my own vegetable garden, and I’m very aware of how important it is to try and eat good quality food and to eat more vegetables than you are, you know, carbs and protein. You are really a lot of people don’t eat that much in terms of vegetables. They’re not as enjoyable as a steak or making or hamburger would be. But I grew up with Italian immigrants and farmers who I was surrounded by home grown vegetables my whole life. So I do incorporate that into my life, and that’s part of why I try to grow my own vegetables and get some exercise in that I enjoy and is relaxing to me and I try my best and I’m not perfect, but I’m definitely aware of trying to keep that balance and keep myself as healthy as I can. All right.
Erwin Szeto [01:24:23] TV, me, some of those pasta brands that you that you recommend this year. Remember, we’ve had this discussion. You were telling me how silly of me. Not silly asked. But people with gluten allergies, if they if they have pasta that’s imported from Italy, they don’t. They don’t seem to have the same problems.
Mike Iuliano [01:24:42] Yeah, it’s funny, I mean, you know, I’m not going to speak, I’m not a doctor, obviously for anyone listening to this, go ask your doctor or your nutritionist or whomever if it’s recommended. But my mother is diabetic. And again, just through having been through the health sciences degree, I’ve been studying diabetes a lot because I have people in my family with diabetes. So, you know, food has a big impact on our life. And I remember saying to myself, Why do my relatives in Italy not really have diabetes, but the ones that moved here do. And the only difference is really, you know, they’re just eating Canadian food versus Italian food. We’re still eating pasta and sausages and bread and all of the same types of food sources.
Erwin Szeto [01:25:23] Different? Yeah, same. Why was it so different?
Mike Iuliano [01:25:26] Why was my mom allergic to our gluten? And when she went to Italy? You know, because my parents visit, we have a lot of family there. She went there the first time when she was knowingly allergic to gluten, saying, I’m going to pay for it, but I got to eat what they serve me, and it’s going to be bread and pasta. I mean, no Italian chooses to be gluten free in Italy.
Erwin Szeto [01:25:45] It’s just it’s not the way it works.
Mike Iuliano [01:25:48] So she ate the pasta and the bread there, and nothing happened. You know, the same pasta and bread in Canada would give you a bloating, uncomfortable feeling, and it’s different. So when she came back to Canada and told her doctor, the doctor said, You know, yeah, there’s a lot of Europeans here who have told me that experience and the European grown wheat is of a different strain and variety, and it doesn’t seem to bother you. So in Canada, if you look for a European produced pasta, there’s several different brands like So if you, my mom discovered that the no name brand pasta was produced in turkey doesn’t bother her stomach and has several Italian brands like Mola, Sana or Ally S.A. and that’s even at food basics and regular grocery stores. There’s certain ones produced in Italy. It’s a product of Italy using Italian wheat or Turkish wheat or anything in Europe. And my mom does not have her typical allergic, gluten bloated reaction anymore if she eats that.
Erwin Szeto [01:26:54] Do you guys buy flour as well? Like if she wants to make like pizza crust, for example, she doesn’t.
Mike Iuliano [01:27:00] And part of the part of it is, you know, you have to pay more for that Italian wheat to buy it and use it over here. And so no, I’m sure if you really tried hard, you could probably find a farm where maybe those people, maybe even an Amish farm where they’re growing old school wheat, and you could probably try and try and source it out. But it’s not. It’s not that cheap. If it’s readily available at a store, you’re going to pay for it. So they she uses some rice products and other products, but not true. Italian wants to eat rice pasta. I’m sorry if that offends anyone, but you know my dad and my older relatives who are from Italy, they want their wheat pasta. And if they happen to be allergic to gluten, you can kind of eat the European wheat, and it doesn’t make you have that bloated feeling. From what I’ve heard, anyway, you know, I haven’t talked to everyone, but it seems to be a very common experience. Right, right.
Erwin Szeto [01:27:56] Yeah, right. So it’s been a fascinating conversation. As always, drop in gold Real Estate stuff. How can people reach out to you? Because I know you’re looking for you’re looking to acquire more apartment buildings than you. And so for anyone, I’m interested in partnering up, how can they reach you?
Mike Iuliano [01:28:13] Yeah. I mean, if someone’s looking to invest in Niagara and you’re kind of either far away or don’t have the time and experience to deal with it, I mean, I am looking to try and work with people that want to work strategically together. And, you know, I can help find good deals and good locations and implement a good strategy. I have a one employee management and the ongoing management. I mean, if I have a vested interest in the property that I have ownership stake in, I’m going to really watch over it carefully and I want to try and set up long term investments as do you and as do most diligent investors. So if someone wants to get in touch with me, I mean, you can go to my website PM Niagara Dot com. So that’s Premier Property Management Niagara PM Niagara dot com. And you can see some general descriptions of what I do there, and it’ll allow you to get in touch with me if you did want to discuss anything as well. But I’m definitely looking to like I said before I get into some investments strategically that should gain a lot of equity when the go train arrives. That’s the general theory when you have something new coming to your area, whether it’s education or roadway expansions or access to a subway or go train. And I think there’s a lot of exciting stuff ahead for Niagara
Erwin Szeto [01:29:31] and then and then for the stock stuff. How can people follow? You get in touch with you
Mike Iuliano [01:29:36] if you want to follow all of my charts and the main conversation with what I do in stocks, go on Facebook and. Type invest like Mike and you will see my Facebook group pop up called investors like Mike. You can join for free and I’m on Twitter. And it’s also it’s at investors like Mike because my Twitter handle so you can follow either one of those if you like. And obviously, if you do that, do all your own research and don’t invest on what I say. But I just show what I’m thinking and what I do with my money.
Erwin Szeto [01:30:07] Very cool. Very cool. Thanks again for Mike for doing this. Vincent flowers taken forever for us to get together and doing this.
Mike Iuliano [01:30:14] Yeah, we’re busy guys. And hopefully with the spring coming, maybe we’ll even see you in person in aggregate, trying to buy more properties here more often. Yeah.
Erwin Szeto [01:30:24] And I’ll buy you lunch and again, everyone buy my lunch. He’s How am I going to?
Mike Iuliano [01:30:30] How am I going to stay healthy? If you keep having people buy me lunch, just go eat
Erwin Szeto [01:30:33] like healthy places. We always go to nice places.
Mike Iuliano [01:30:36] Yeah, we try. We try to actually eat some good food when we get together, for sure.
Erwin Szeto [01:30:40] Yeah, I think that’s another benefit of being your friend is like, you know, all the good hot spots, are you? You’re guaranteed a good meal.
Mike Iuliano [01:30:48] You’re not going to lose weight if you hang around me, that’s for sure.
Erwin Szeto [01:30:51] Yeah, because there’s going to be more of whatever it is that it is isn’t necessarily bad for you.
Mike Iuliano [01:30:57] Yeah, for sure.
Erwin Szeto [01:30:59] All right. Thanks again, Mike, for doing this.
Mike Iuliano [01:31:01] Thanks for having me. I thought it’s OK.
Erwin Szeto [01:31:12] Do you want to be a real estate investor and don’t know where to start? Then I recommend you attend our Halton Real Estate Investor Group meetings, where you’ll meet and learn the secrets of many of the guests of the show who have earned seven figures or more from their real estate investments. Almost none of them did so without having to manage their tenants around like toilets. We have the best property managers and plumbers. We can refer to our clients. I can’t promise you results, but you’ve heard from every client of mine who’s been on this podcast, and you may have noticed they’re quite successful and on their way to financial freedom. Plus, I’m a big believer that knowledge is power. To register, go to Dubeau WW Dot Truth about real estate investing dossier meeting again. This WW w Dubeau truth about real estate investing dossier slash meeting, and this could be your launchpad to financial freedom. Do you register as soon as you can get a star witness for the last meeting? Your seats are always limited. I hope to see you at the next meeting. It’s easy.