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Breaking Down the Smith Manoeuvre with Rob Smith

Breaking Down the Smith Manoeuvre with Rob Smith
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George El Masri [00:00:00] Hi, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Well Off podcast where today I interviewed Rob Smith for the Smith Maneuver, if you guys are familiar with that term. So his father was actually the person who created it. And it was really interesting hearing from him. He created it in the 80s. So it's a Canadian thing that applies specifically to us, because as some of you might know, your principal residence, the mortgage on it, is not interest deductible. So this maneuver actually allows you to create an interest deduction for your primary residence. So it's beneficial to you in several ways. And we discover or we discuss some of the tactics, some of the strategies around that and the whole concept or the whole idea of this is to kind of reduce your amortization and to increase the returns for on your personal residence and overall just to increase your net worth. So we cover a lot of good things in here. I hope you'll enjoy the show. And as always, I just want to remind you that I appreciate you listening to this. And my goal is to get this message out to as many people as possible. So if you know anyone who might benefit from this podcast, be sure to share it with them. Let's get the message out there. And if you are interested in getting some more real estate information, you can go to well-off Dossie forward slash report. I've got a bunch of good stuff in there for. You can download everything for free, so make sure to check it out and always reach out to me if you have any questions. My information's on the website. Well-off Dossie. Welcome to the Well-off podcast, where the goal is to motivate, inspire and share success principles. I am here with Robinson Smith from the Smith family and you guys will know what I'm talking about soon. So Robinson is a financial strategist, speaker, best selling author, and he is part of the family that created the Smith maneuver. So that's the whole Smith part I was talking about. So his goal is to educate Canadian homeowners on how to create wealth from their mortgage and then also trains financial professionals on the strategy in order to provide good advice to their clients. So, Robinson, welcome to the show. There's a lot more to your story and we'll dove into that soon.

Rob Smith [00:02:10] Yeah, well, thanks very much, George. Pleasure to be here.

George El Masri [00:02:12] Yeah. Do you prefer to be addressed by Robinson or Rob, first of all?

Rob Smith [00:02:17] Or you can go ahead and call me Rob.

George El Masri [00:02:18] Rob. OK, a little bit less formal there. Yeah. OK, so the way I like to start off, Rob, I like to ask you a little bit about your childhood, maybe a couple of things you remember from from when you were young.

Rob Smith [00:02:29] Well, sure, I I grew up in Bolton, Ontario. Well, grew up until I was about well, in grade four, we moved over to the West Coast and to Vancouver. And so that's where I did most of my schooling. Lovely B.C. coast here. I my my dad developed this financial strategy back in the mid eighties. So I do remember sitting around the dinner table as a as a young kid just focusing on having fun and chasing girls. And meanwhile, you sitting at the dinner table talking about the Smith maneuver, making mortgages tax deductible. So for me, at that time, it wasn't the most interesting conversation. But I have been surrounded by this financial strategy for many, many years. Yeah. So West Vancouver went to university here in Victoria, got my got a double major in economics and Chinese studies, spent some time overseas in China studying and working various positions. The Canadian embassy. I was also vice president of a boutique investment firm called The Dollar Group in Beijing. And then I completed my MBA at Simon Fraser University and International Business and got into the workforce. And here I am

George El Masri [00:03:47] also was a Western financial advisor as well, or. Yeah, kind of in that space.

Rob Smith [00:03:52] Yeah, he was he founded well, he co-founded Grandville w w group, which is still still around today based out of Vancouver. So the there are a full service financial firm. They brought together a bunch of different types of financial professionals, insurance, investment tax and estate planning, that sort of thing. So so that's where he was when he came up with the strategy.

George El Masri [00:04:17] Awesome. Cool. So what what makes you want to stay on the West Coast? You said you grew up in Bolton, so I'm kind of in the area that we're in here. What would you want to go out there and stay there?

Rob Smith [00:04:30] Well, the summers are pretty nice here and the winters aren't as bad. Yeah. You know, and do most of my growing up here is where my crew is, where people are sort. Yeah, so I really do enjoy it out here, although it's always nice to get back east and visit everybody in Toronto. My past experience as an investment adviser, I've got a lot of contacts in Toronto that my wholesaler's and professional contacts. So it's always nice to head back there in the summertime and see everybody.

George El Masri [00:05:02] Yeah, sounds good. So I'm curious. I remember, as I was telling you before we started this interview that I learned a little bit about the Smith maneuver when I was studying at the University of Toronto doing an economics degree. But I honestly don't remember very much about it. I just remember that there is a way for you to turn your mortgage into a tax deduction, I believe, through a hillock potentially, or I forget exactly what it was. So I don't know if you want to kind of touch on that and explain it a little bit.

Rob Smith [00:05:32] Yeah. Basically going back a few years back in the mid 80s when my dad came up with this, he was interested in the fact that the Americans could deduct the interest on their mortgages where we we Canadians could not. And of course, he didn't think that was very fair. So he did a lot of research, a lot of reading. He read the Tax Act, which is not a fun thing to do. But in any event, he came up with with the strategy based on the principle that in Canada, if we borrow with the reasonable expectation of generating income, we can deduct the interest. So if we borrow to consume, so if we borrow to buy cars, vacations, groceries, gas, we cannot deduct the interest. There's no expectation of generating income. So we're acquiring debt, which is relatively expensive. That's problem number one. Problem number two is these assets that we're buying with this borrowed money that is expensive, depreciate or vanish in value over time, cars depreciate value. You go on vacation, you finish your vacation that's done, groceries get eaten, all that sort of stuff. So so nondeductible debt is is not the way to go, but the way to convert your mortgage to tax deductible debt is based on the principle, as I said, that if we borrow to invest with a reasonable expectation of generating income, we can deduct the interest. So that means we're borrowing to purchase assets. We're investing, we're purchasing assets which have a very good likelihood of increasing in value over time. So there's benefit No. One, we're buying an asset which is going to improve our net worth benefit. Number two is because we're buying this asset, which has a potential to generate income. These investments, we're able to deduct the interest, which means we typically, if we get our taxes taken off our paychecks every two weeks by tax time, the government looks at our tax returns, says, oh, we took too much money from you every two weeks we're going to have to send you money back. So that means the real cost of this borrowing is much cheaper than borrowing to consume. And so the Smith maneuver takes advantage of these principles, the two different types of debt, and enables the homeowner to firstly start to generate tax relief immediately as soon as they implement the strategy. Secondly, because of this tax relief, they're receiving new money, which otherwise they wouldn't have available to them. So they take this money and they apply it as a prepayment against their mortgage once a year. And by prepaying the mortgage, it's gone faster, this nondeductible mortgage debt. And in order to generate the deductions, in order to generate these tax refunds, we must be buying assets which are considered investments, therefore likely increasing in value over time. So there's three benefits that happen. They happen simultaneously. They start right now and they build over time exponentially. And the fundamental principle, like when we talk about good debt versus bad debt, some people classify good debt as debt that was used to acquire assets which appreciate over time. And bad debt is assets which depreciate over time. And in my context, that's not entirely correct, because when we borrow to buy our home, when we get a mortgage, we're buying an asset that is likely going to increase in value over time. But the fact is, we don't expect to generate income from the house in which we live. And so the borrowing against that, that mortgage is not tax deductible. So I classify good debt as tax deductible debt and bad debt is nondeductible debt.

George El Masri [00:09:04] OK, yeah, so we touched on a lot of stuff here, it sounds like for the most part what you're describing is using leveraging what you have an asset that you currently have, for example, your home, and then purchasing a tax deductible asset through that leverage. And that's kind of the point of the Smith maneuver. But I guess my question is, are you able to apply the Smith maneuver to your primary residence? So making your primary residence tax deductible without investing that money into another asset?

Rob Smith [00:09:44] Well, the when we borrow to buy our house, the interest that we're paying that bank on that mortgage is not tax deductible. In order to generate tax deductible debt, there must be some borrowing with the reasonable expectation of generating income. So the way the way the process works is if you've got the appropriate mortgage, it does require the right type of financing whenever we make a payment against that mortgage. So a regular mortgage payment of three thousand dollars, let's say a thousand dollars, reduces the principal. This type of mortgage, the advanceable, allows us to access that equity that we just created a thousand dollars. So what most Canadians do is they pull that out to make car payments each month. Right. Or by boats go on vacation. We're borrowing to invest. So in order to generate tax deductions, you do need to buy an asset. And in this case, these are investment assets and there's a wide universe of potential investments, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETFs, index funds and your business, somebody else's business investment, real estate. So as long as there's a reasonable expectation of generating income, you can deduct the interest. So if you're not buying an asset with the newly created equity that you're generating via the mortgage, pay down, whether it be the regular mortgage payment or using any of the accelerators, then you're simply paying off this this debt and creating equity, which you're not putting to work.

George El Masri [00:11:11] Sure. OK, so just to kind of sum it up for maybe certain people who don't understand what every advanceable mortgages, but there are certain mortgage types that allow you as you pay down your principal, it becomes available to you in the form typically of a home equity line of credit. So every month that your your mortgage is paid down, that principal amount gets added to your kellock. And then some people you're saying are using those funds to buy nondeductible debt like cars and boats and whatever. As you're saying, you should use those funds to buy something like either stocks or another property where you could deduct the interest that you're paying on those funds and it benefits you in that sense.

Rob Smith [00:11:58] Yeah, absolutely. It it comes down to to a solid understanding of debt. And not many Canadians really have a good handle on this. It's not something that your typical Canadian is taught as they're growing up, you know, unless you go to business school. But when Canadians have this type of mortgage already, this advanceable mortgage, whether they know exactly why they got it or why the bank lender put this product in the first place, but they see this this increasing limit on this line of credit each month because they're making the regular mortgage payment and they say, wow, I can borrow a thousand bucks. That's great. And so they do that, they buy a car, they Bible, they keep they continue to do this. All they're doing is reducing nondeductible debt on one side of the mortgage with rent, replacing it with nondeductible debt on the other side of the mortgage. And their debt is not changing. So they're going to end up with keeping this nondeductible as expensive debt, maybe forever. So this is what we call wealth destruction. But the other type of debt is tax deductible debt. And when we're replacing the nondeductible debt on one side of the mortgage with tax deductible debt on the other side, as we talked about unnecessarily in order to generate the deductions, have to be acquiring an asset which is classified as an investment, which is going to grow over time. So this is wealth creation and this is what the wealthy understand very well. They truly understand debt. They they use it to their advantage. They embraced it, but they embrace the right type of debt. Right.

George El Masri [00:13:31] As long as the debt are starting, as long as the return on your investment is greater than the interest you're paying for that debt, then it makes sense to do it.

Rob Smith [00:13:41] And this is a tricky question, because what most people fail to take into consideration is let's say I'm let's say I'm borrowing at four percent and I'm investing in something. And let's say the investment earns four percent. A lot of people will say, well, you're at break even here. As soon as you start earning three point ninety nine percent on your investments, it doesn't make any sense. Well, that's not the case because this four percent that you're paying on this borrowed money because it's tax deductible, the real rate of interest is much less like the 50 percent tax bracket because of the deductions. It only costs you two percent. Right. And if we can't make two percent, then we're all in a lot of trouble.

George El Masri [00:14:25] Yeah, for sure. So, yeah. So there's multiple benefits to to applying this strategy.

Rob Smith [00:14:31] Well, that's right. And and it's important that that you understand all the different nuances of it, because if you don't, then it may not make sense and you might not truly pursue looking into the strategy. So there's a lot of education that is required. You know, I came out with my book, my. So your mortgage for financial freedom about a year ago, and hopefully that does a good job of explaining the two types of debt, but there's there's a real difference in these two types of debt. And that's what that's what makes the difference between having an opportunity to become wealthy or staying not wealthy.

George El Masri [00:15:07] Yeah, for sure. So we've covered kind of the basics here. And I think a lot of people already understand, like they understand the benefits of leveraging their current assets to generate more wealth. But is there anything about this maneuver that maybe like some tricks or some tips that you have that can help people maybe get beyond the basics a little bit?

Rob Smith [00:15:32] Sure. Well, firstly, let's say I want to implement the Smith River, but I don't have the right type of mortgage. So I go talk to a Smith mover certified professional mortgage broker. We've got SBP mortgage brokers across most of the provinces, but we go we get our our mortgage refinanced into the appropriate mortgage at that point in time. There's an opportunity potentially for an equity take out. Maybe you can go buy a rental property, use that as a down payment for the rental property. But this this is what I'm describing here is one of the accelerators and there's five accelerators. So at this refinancing, I have the ability maybe to pull out some equity above and beyond what my mortgage balances. I can pull up 50 grand, 100 grand, depending on the house values and what they've done. And now I can go I can prime the pump with this. I can pull this money out. Let's say it's fifty thousand dollars and I can invest in securities, I can invest in real estate. I can invest in any number of things. And what that does is while this is additional borrowing, this is borrowing that I didn't know before I implemented the strategy. What this does is it generates significant tax reductions right off the bat. And these tax deductions therefore lead to a larger than otherwise refund each each year. So I'm getting out of my mortgage faster now. The other accelerator's there's the debt swap, there's cash flow diversion, the drip accelerator, the cash flow down. And if we want to extend this example of the prime the pump accelerator, if I took fifty thousand dollars out and I use it as a down payment on investment property, now, I, I have a rental property I put renters in and each month they give me, say, three thousand dollars in rent. But what most Canadians do is, is still landlords. They'll take that three thousand dollars, say thank you in the turn right around and make the mortgage payment on that rental property. But they're missing a very, very large opportunity. And that is if this rental property is in the proprietorship and I can take that three thousand dollars in rental receipts and I can use it as a prepayment against my own mortgage, the house in which I live. And then I can borrow this three thousand thanks to the special mortgage product I have. And then I service the rental expenses on that property, the mortgage maintenance, whatever it might be. So I'm not using any additional funds from my own pocket. I'm still getting three thousand in from rent, I'm still paying three thousand in expenses, but I'm making it work for me more than once. And if I'm paying my mortgage by three thousand dollars a month, we're seeing amortizations go from twenty five years on that nondeductible mortgage debt down to less than ten. OK, so. So the prime the pump in conjunction with the cash flow down. Maybe you already have a rental property, maybe the prime the pump allows you to get a second, whatever the case may be. But that doesn't only apply to rental properties. The cash flow damn accelerator. I can also use my home based business proprietorship, the rent, the the income from that prepayment mortgage, rebo inservice expenses. So and the cash flow diversion, the debt swap, the drip accelerator. None of them require any new additional funds from my pocket on a monthly basis. So before I'm doing the Smith maneuver, if I've got a twenty five hundred dollar monthly mortgage payment after I'm doing the Smith maneuver and some or all of these accelerators, I'm still only coming out of pocket. Twenty five hundred dollars a month. So this is where the power comes in, because it doesn't reduce our lifestyle. It doesn't take extra cash from our pockets on a monthly basis, but it allows us to generate these tax deductions, eliminate this nondeductible debt soon, and also feel the power of compound growth by investing now rather than later.

George El Masri [00:19:16] OK, I just want to clarify, because obviously we just covered a lot. But if I understood correctly, you're saying that let's see, there's a scenario where you have a primary residence and you have a rental property and you have a advanceable mortgage on that rental property as you're paying down the mortgage each month, are you using the the access to the hillock from that rental property to pay down your own personal mortgage? Is that what you're saying?

Rob Smith [00:19:48] Not exactly. Now, it is it is the case that having a advanceable mortgage on my rental property can be to my advantage as well. But I'm strictly talking about having that advanceable mortgage on my principal residence. OK, so the regardless of what type of financing I have on my rental property, I'm still receiving rental income and I'm still having to service that that mortgage on that rental property. But that those rental receipts I receive each month, I make a prepayment against my own house, the house in which I live. And via that we advanceable mortgage on my principal residence. I'm able to get back at that three thousand dollar prepayment and then service the rental expenses. Gotcha. So the Smith maneuver is a mortgage sorry, is a debt conversion strategy. It converts nondeductible debt to deductible debt. But there are and that means we're we're converting the debt on our principal residence. We don't have to have a rental property if we don't or we don't have a home based business than the cash flow down is not available to us. The cash for that is simply an accelerator. So now. Sorry, go ahead. Now, if I have a advanceable mortgage on my rental property as well, to further complicate things, I am able to access any equity that I create by making that monthly mortgage payment against my rental property. I'm paying down that mortgage balance, but I then, because of the advance feature, have access to that as well. And I could pull that out to put it to work. So things get very powerful very quickly. As long as you are working with someone, a financial professional who has been specifically trained in this universe with a certified professional who knows how to implement your home financing, your rental property financing, who knows how to direct the cash flows, who knows how to tell you what to do and when to do it with how much.

George El Masri [00:21:35] Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So can you kind of walk us through what that would look like? A practical example, how much money would somebody actually be saving or generating extra wealth if we. I don't know if I can throw some numbers at you and you can kind of give me an idea.

Rob Smith [00:21:55] Well, certainly I know people who are just listening aren't going to be able to see this, but we'll we'll talk our way through this if you if you just want to give me. An annual annual income, George, I can plug it into the calculator here that I got open

George El Masri [00:22:15] like like what kind of income are you talking

Rob Smith [00:22:17] about? One hundred and fifty thousand a year. Employment, income.

George El Masri [00:22:20] So employment income. OK, sure. Let's say one hundred thousand to keep it simple.

Rob Smith [00:22:24] OK, so one hundred thousand. Now these this person has a rental property. Can we agree on thirty six thousand dollars in rental receipts each year. Sure. OK. And rental expense, let's say, thirty four thousand, so they're running a big cash flow positive. All right, so just by employment, by inputting that. That's the first page of the calculator, unfortunately, we can't see it, but how about a seven hundred and fifty thousand house value? This is the house in which I live. Sure. OK, and a four hundred thousand dollar mortgage balance, some reasonable. What interest rate on that mortgage would be appropriate?

George El Masri [00:23:12] Let's say two and a half percent,

Rob Smith [00:23:13] two point five percent. Twenty five year M sure. OK. And on the advanceable line of credit side prime plus a half. So I'm looking at two point ninety five. Sure. OK, now on the investment side, we can select our forecasted growth rate. The calculator defaults to excuse me eight percent. But do you feel more comfortable with seven or six or

George El Masri [00:23:42] what is this again,

Rob Smith [00:23:43] the investment growth rate of my portfolio?

George El Masri [00:23:45] Sure, yeah. Let's say seven percent.

Rob Smith [00:23:47] OK, so basically what? What we're looking at with just the plain Jane scenario here, so this is this is not using any of the accelerator's OK. All we're doing in this case is using the regular monthly mortgage payment. So when that mortgage payment goes, the portion of that will go against principal in this case. Nine hundred and sixty two dollars will go against principal. OK, well that means I can borrow that in nineteen sixty two. And if I do the tax deductions that I will earn over the course of this twenty five year amortization or one hundred just over one hundred thirty one thousand dollars based on my marginal tax rate which we've inputted thanks to the annual employment income, I'll receive fifty thousand dollars over this period of time from the government and refunds that otherwise I wouldn't have received. And my net worth improvement is projected to be three hundred and forty thousand dollars. So seven hundred and forty thousand dollars investment portfolio will be offset by the fact that we've converted nondeductible debt to deductible debt. So I still have that that debt. But we subtract that from the seven hundred and forty thousand dollars investment portfolio. We've got a three hundred and forty thousand dollar improvement net worth. That is, without applying these refunds against the mortgage as an annual prepayment, if I do that. That net worth improvment goes from three hundred and forty to four hundred and twenty eight thousand, and I'm taking two point two five years off the mortgage. So instead of twenty five years, it's gone in twenty two point seventy five. And nowhere in this scenario have I come out of pocket anything more than the regular mortgage payment which I was making anyways, whether I was doing this or not. So that's four hundred and thirty thousand dollar net worth improvements simply by restructuring what I already have and what I already have available to me right now. We've mentioned that we've got that rental property. If we cash flow dimness, that means that I can take three thousand dollars in rental receipts each month and prepay my mortgage. We borrow that to then service the interest expense on that or the expense on that rental property. And by doing that, my two point two five years, which have been shaved off my mortgage to this point, goes to seventeen point five years, shaved off at nondeductible debt. So that mortgage, which was going to take me twenty five years to pay off, is now gone in seven point five years. And my net worth improvement has increased to six hundred and twenty five dollars, six hundred twenty five thousand dollars. And this is primarily because of the increased tax deductions that I'm generating sooner, and also because my rental revenue was three thousand a month, but my expenses were two thousand eight hundred thirty three a month. So I had that difference of one hundred and sixty seven dollars. My math is correct to invest in securities for growth. So there's there's a lot of there's a lot of different variations on this strategy, which you can implement, some people may not have the cash flow them available, so may not have the prime the pump. But there are others like cash flow diversion and debt swap, which again require no new money. So it's just restructuring what you already have, what you have available to you.

George El Masri [00:27:03] Yes. So just to kind of sum it up in a very basic manner, by applying the Smith maneuver, you're able

Rob Smith [00:27:11] to reduce

George El Masri [00:27:13] your amortization, you're increasing your returns and you're increasing basically your net worth over time. Yes. And you're not losing anything. It's not costing you any more. It's just applying these strategies that you've come up with.

Rob Smith [00:27:28] Correct. So if. Well, to be fair, my father. Your father. Yeah, but some people might ask, well, what happens if rates rise? What happens if my mortgage payment and my mortgage interest rate rise or the borrowing rate rises? And the nice thing about the Smith maneuver is that we see we see balance here because when interest rates rise and don't forget, my father developed this in the mid 80s when rates were in double digits. And if it didn't work, then he would have kept on it and kept on at it. It wouldn't be here today, but when rates rise. That means, yes, a larger portion of my regular mortgage payment is going to interest and less to principal, so I have less to borrow and to invest each month. But because the rates have increased so of my tax deductions, so I get a better sort of my tax refund has increased. So there's balance there. And when rates go down, my tax refunds get a little smaller because lower rates. But that means I have more to invest on a monthly basis. So I take more advantage of compound growth. So there's balances its on on both sides of this.

George El Masri [00:28:39] OK, so maybe one last question before we jump into the next section. What about like is this all legal? Is there any concerns for people from this theory checking into this or anything of that sort.

Rob Smith [00:28:55] Well that's quite a frequent question by Canadians. What's the reality of all this and that that concern should be allayed by the fact that I have personally put employees of the CRA into the strategy on their own homes, cops, judges, lawyers, accountants. So it is it is legal. It's 100 percent legal. It's simply based on the fundamental premise which has been written into the tax code for one hundred years, that if we borrow to invest with the expectation of generating income, we can deduct the interest. Now, the story my dad used to like telling was this is way back in the day before I was involved many years ago. But excuse me, he was he was at his office minding his own business, working away and and in Walk to Well-dressed Men. And they ask his receptionist, OK, we're here from the Siara. We'd like to speak with Fraser Smith about this Smith maneuver thing he's doing. So so his assistant shows him into the office and and Fraser says, hello, have a seat. And he pulls out his piece of paper and a pencil and he starts explaining the Smith maneuver. And a little bit into the explanation, one of the guys leans forward and says, Mr. Smith, with this work with a seventy thousand dollar mortgage. So so, you know, and they left happy and Fraser never heard from them again, which is going to get a bigger endorsement from the CRA than that. So, yes, it's been in continual operation, the strategy since the eighties.

George El Masri [00:30:31] Yeah. If it wasn't legal, I don't think they would have been teaching it at my university.

Rob Smith [00:30:35] No, no, no.

George El Masri [00:30:36] Yeah, yeah. OK, so that's fair. Before we jump into the next section, is there anything else you'd like to add, anything we haven't covered?

Rob Smith [00:30:45] Well, I think we'll see what the next section brings.

George El Masri [00:30:48] OK, all right. The next section is a random fight, so I'm going to ask you five random questions and you're just going to tell me the first thing that comes to mind.

Rob Smith [00:30:56] OK, well, before we do that, then what I would like to say is for anybody listening who is interested in this, the website is Smith Man Dot net. You can get my book there. You can get the calculator there. We have a homeowner course there. But if you're interested in learning more and you don't want to spend twenty four, ninety five on the book, you go to the library and check it out for free. Just, just educate yourself. An educated Canadian is a better off Canadian. So there's, there's a lot of resources out there. Please do not turn to the internet for information. It is a rat's nest but yeah. Smith man dot net. There's also some frequently asked frequently asked questions there.

George El Masri [00:31:37] Yeah. We'll include your information in the show notes as well in case anyone's interested in checking it out. Great. OK, so Rob Random five No. One, what will be your next big purchase.

Rob Smith [00:31:50] My next big purchase, my next big purchase, we're looking at building a home, so it's probably going to be a piece of land. Cool, cool. Yes. Well, good luck. Thank you very much. I'm going to need it.

George El Masri [00:32:07] Number two, if you can have dinner with any living person, who would you choose?

Rob Smith [00:32:14] Dinner with any living person on an. And. I I have to say, it would be fascinating to sit down with Trump

George El Masri [00:32:29] for an OK. Yeah, I think I think I've heard that one before, but yeah. Yeah, definitely. I'm sure a lot of people would that would find him interesting. Number three, what's your favorite kind of weather?

Rob Smith [00:32:44] Favorite kind of weather. Twenty five degrees, sunny light breeze coming off the Pacific. Awesome.

George El Masri [00:32:52] Sounds like what you get to experience regularly here anyways. What's the weather like right now? Like, what's the temperature at?

Rob Smith [00:33:00] Oh, we're probably about seven or eight. OK, up out of sunshine poking through.

George El Masri [00:33:06] Yeah, that's OK. If it doesn't get much colder than that, that's perfectly fine. Yeah. Number four, what should children be taught at school to help them prepare for the real world?

Rob Smith [00:33:18] This is actually a close one for me I'm working with and we're going to. I've been involved with an organization which is revolutionary, revolutionizing the way children are taught, not just what they're taught, but the way they're taught. It's based on. Them inquiring about what they want to learn, inquiry based learning as far as what should they be taught? They should be taught about personal finances. Yeah, you know, one hundred percent there's there's a real big gap on on real world education and learning as regards personal financing, personal finances. And that's dangerous because, you know, as soon as a kid gets to university, they're surrounded by the credit card companies and they don't know anything about it.

George El Masri [00:34:16] Yeah, for sure.

Rob Smith [00:34:17] So personal finances. Yes.

George El Masri [00:34:20] Yeah, definitely. Credit cards. When you have student loans, there's all sorts of things that can get you in trouble really young. And then you get stuck up

Rob Smith [00:34:27] and there's a lot of opportunity that people that kids just missed because they aren't aware like where to save what what does come in when you're when you're a child or young adult and how to save it and how to allocate. So it's a big problem, I think, not just in Canada, but all over the place. And it's something that certainly should be addressed.

George El Masri [00:34:47] Absolutely. OK, so number five, what success principal do you live by?

Rob Smith [00:34:54] Do it. And I still have trouble with that one every once in a while, but it just getting down to it and doing it, you know what I when I took that, I took that perspective when I wrote the book and I didn't have much of a plan, I knew kind of what I wanted to say, how I wanted to say it, how I want to get it across. But I didn't sit down for any significant period of time and plan it out. What are the chapters going to be? What are the contents of each chapter? All that stuff? I just started to do it and that's how that's how it got done. Done is better than perfect. And there's there's always a chance, an opportunity to perfect something later on. But if you don't start it, you're never going to get that opportunity. There's a lot of things that that could be accomplished by a lot of people if they just set out and started for sure.

George El Masri [00:35:54] Perfect. Yeah, so there you go. Just do it. So how can people reach you and what services do you provide? I know you kind of touched on that already.

Rob Smith [00:36:03] Yeah. So Smith mandating that we can be contacted through there. And again, there's a lot of information that you can read up on the strategy as far as as far as what what I provide, I've set up a Canada wide network of Smith maneuver certified professionals, as I think I mentioned. So I'm training up real investment advisers, mortgage brokers, mortgage conveyancer as insurance agents and accountants. So basically all the types of professionals that a Canadian should be surrounding themselves with anyways, whether they're doing the spin move or not. But in in in these different cities and towns across Canada, we're going to have all of these professionals who have been trained in the Smith maneuver. So they're going to really be able to help the homeowner implement the strategy by not only being able to expertly implement the strategy depending on the profession, but they'll be able to coordinate with the other Smith mover certified professionals in the area. So a mortgage broker will will work with the realtor, who will work with the investment adviser, who will with the accountant. So now the homeowner is surrounded by financial professionals who they all speak the same language. And there's a great deal of comfort in that for a Canadian homeowner where they know they don't have to excuse me, train up their other professionals who maybe haven't heard of the Smith maneuver. So, yes, you can contact us through the website even if you just want someone to provide more guidance. But if you want someone to read the book and do a little research, if you want someone to help implement it, get in touch with us and we'll connect you with certified professionals in your area.

George El Masri [00:37:42] Awesome. Yep. So like I said, it's all going to be linked in the show notes. So, Rob, thank you so much for your time. And I appreciate you sharing this Smith maneuver with us.

Rob Smith [00:37:52] Well, it's been a pleasure. Forty, forty five minutes or however long as is typically not enough, there's a lot to go through. But but again, thank you very much, George, for allowing me this opportunity and doing your little bit to get the get the word out to Canadian homeowners that this this strategy is available to them.

George El Masri [00:38:11] My pleasure. We'll talk soon, Rob. Thanks, George. Thanks once again for listening to another episode of the Well Off podcast, just want to remind you that if you do appreciate the content, all I ask is that you comment, maybe like it if you can, on the platform that you're listening to it on and finally share it with friends and family. I'd love to get the message out there and it would mean a lot if you can share it. And finally, I just wanted to offer you as a valued listener, a free copy to the roadmap to real estate investing, which is a document that I've put together which helps you identify what strategy would best suit your needs at this current time. You go over certain things that are included in this document step by step, and it'll hopefully provide you with some clarity. So have a look. You can go to w w w well off Dasia Forward Slash Guide to download your free copy.

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