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Announcer [00:02:23] If you are looking for the skills and tools to succeed in real estate investing, you’ve come to the right place. This show is about breaking through barriers, breaking through limiting beliefs and breaking through to the life that you want to live through the power of real estate investing. This is the Breakthrough Real Estate Investing podcast, and now here are your hosts Rob Break and Sandy MacKay.
Rob Break [00:02:55] Hello and welcome back, everybody. Thanks for joining us again today. Sandy How’s it going?
Sandy Mackay [00:03:02] It’s going great. It’s fantastic. I can’t complain, how about you.
Rob Break [00:03:06] Excellent, absolutely excellent, nothing to complain about, either. Wow. Show’s over. Everything’s good with us. So that’s all people need to know. Well, what do you got going on? Anything exciting happening are exciting.
Sandy Mackay [00:03:21] We’re renovating a personal or a new personal house, so that’s the most exciting thing, probably and stressful thing in life right now. For us, with all the material stuff and everything shortages, all that fun. So yeah, that’s fine. Still a different answer on home versus investment properties like we’ve done a million times, but you know, you’re trying to trying to get in there and living, you know, get your life back to normal.
Rob Break [00:03:45] So the fun guys should maybe get a camper trailer or something for a few weeks. Yeah.
Sandy Mackay [00:03:51] Well, it’s not too bad. It’s not too bad. It’s not moving in countries like you have recently. So it’s all good. OK, like too much of
Rob Break [00:03:59] my stuff should be here soon. So that’s pretty exciting.
Sandy Mackay [00:04:02] I guess we’ve got nice backdrop there that people would join us live and watch the show. We could show them
Rob Break [00:04:09] this concrete wall and a couple of trees here. All right. No, it’s nice here, though. What’s the weather in like there? I’ve heard it’s not so great. Beautiful today. Is it OK? Awesome.
Sandy Mackay [00:04:24] We’ve had a lot of rain, but a lot of rain, I think this summer. So uh. You know, it’s good, can’t complain. It’s probably hot everywhere.
Rob Break [00:04:33] Everyone who’s listening should definitely go over to our website, Breakthrough Area podcast dossier. There they can listen to download, share and join in on all the episodes that we have recorded so far. They can also get in touch with any guests that we’ve had, and they can also get on our mailing list and get our free gift Sandy.
Sandy Mackay [00:04:53] The ultimate strategy for building wealth, the real estates. And when you sign up for our list there, you’ll get that you’ll get access to all of our all of our shows as they come out, so you never miss a beat. You’ll get an update when we air them and then you’ll hear about everything else, we got going on any webinar or seminars, etc. that we that we put on that there. We’re excited to bring us. So join us there and don’t miss out.
Rob Break [00:05:17] And just wanted to ask you, Sandy, what kind of webinars and stuff are you guys doing right now? Do you have anything going on?
Sandy Mackay [00:05:23] We’ve only been doing we’ve been doing some shows around the Burr strategy. A little deeper dove on that that we sometimes blast out to our broadcast listeners in terms of just email stuff with them. And we haven’t done them much here. It’s summer. We’re kind of taking a breather, but I think we’re going to get back to doing some live stuff in the fall winter as we get into some live. Life things again in person. So we’ll update people as we go, but nothing big to report there yet.
Rob Break [00:05:55] Yeah, we’re just doing every couple of weeks. We’re doing our own basically our property tour has virtually. Right. So we’re still doing those and we’re doing our video walkthroughs and showing the value and what to look for, what not to look, what to avoid and duplexes and student rental properties. So we’re still doing that every couple of weeks. So people who join in and sign up will get all those notices.
Sandy Mackay [00:06:23] So it seems no recommendation as we should. We should start to see some property tours virtually. Costa Rica property tours.
Rob Break [00:06:30] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I’m working on that. I’ve done a property of the week so far here. We’ve got a good value add one that I sent out a little while ago, so anyone on the list should be able to check that out. Anyone interested? Reach out to me. Let me know and I can definitely get some info and go over to iTunes. Guys, leave us reading review. You guys know it helps us, so it helps us get the show out there to people. And you know, more people looking for this kind of education will be able to find it. So please go to iTunes. And it was a rating review. So Sandy, we got a great guest for today.
Sandy Mackay [00:07:07] Absolutely. We’ve got Bryan Bouchard’s standing by waiting here patiently and super excited to bring you on here, Bryan. Welcome to the show.
Bryan Bouchard [00:07:15] Thank you, both. It’s a pleasure to be on here.
Rob Break [00:07:17] Yeah, welcome, Bryan. Thanks for taking the time.
Bryan Bouchard [00:07:20] No worries have actually been a listener of this note of this show for a long time back starting from the early days. I mean, I was just thinking about like, I wonder how long you guys been running this show. It must have been over five years at this point.
Sandy Mackay [00:07:34] Seven and a half, seven and a half years. I think it’s the longest running well, it is the longest running Canadian real estate investing podcast that I know of. And so I think that’s our claim to fame that we were we were the top one. I think I think we probably still top or up there. At least I don’t know exactly how it would rank themselves these days, but we’re definitely the longest running affiliate there.
Bryan Bouchard [00:07:56] And it’s like when I was looking for, you know, education back then, probably seven years ago, there wasn’t much out there. So that’s how I came across this. And I remember like the early episodes of you guys just launching this
Sandy Mackay [00:08:09] super cool, super cool. So good old days for everyone. Anyone who doesn’t know Bryan began as a multi-unit investor in 2009, aged 22 and use his skills to become a millionaire by age 30, and he continues to expand his real estate portfolio, bringing others into his deals with investment partners and so on, and offers completely hands off investment opportunities as well. With that, and he also works as a personal finance coach, helping Canadians improve their money game by focusing on cash flow management, financial education, investment strategies and transforming clients habits into those that are used by the wealthiest. So surprised and stuff there were Rob to have you again welcome. And let’s ask him some questions.
Rob Break [00:08:53] That’s great. Yeah, thanks for again. Thanks for coming on. You know, let’s start out like we always do. Just tell us a bit about how you got started back in 2009. Maybe y as well.
Bryan Bouchard [00:09:04] Yeah, not a unique type of story with the rich dad, poor dad, who is what changed everything for me. And that was that like age twenty-one. And then the way that I got started in really was through house hacking and Ajax. I grew up in the Durham area and my first property was a duplex out there. I did the five percent down to get in as early as possible and to rent out a portion of the home. And then from there, in 2009 or 2010, about my second property, which was like a joint venture deal on a lease to own. I got some experience on lease to own deal in 2010, partnered with my brother on that one. And then my third property followed shortly after that, which I used as my primary residence and rented out the duplex that I bought in 2009. And then 2011 was an interesting point in my investing career as I left my job when I was doing full time in the in the construction field was not. I was not passionate about it wasn’t enjoying it. I loved real estate. I loved. I had my hands on a few different things at that point. I got my mortgage license and then I was also playing a lot of poker and I went from recreational to full time, so I quit my job to do mortgages and play poker. And at that time, I was trying to juggle the two of them. I was 24 and I was trying to grow the mortgage business, and I had a hard time doing that. I remember like literally door knocking and cold calling and sending out fliers, trying to get mortgage business and have conversations with homeowners. And it wasn’t going that well. And the poker site that was taking a lot more of my time and my energy ended up shifting completely in that direction and going away from mortgages. And what that did to my investing career, of course, because poker is a cash business that I couldn’t get loans and I couldn’t get mortgages, couldn’t refinance. I played poker full time for three years, so my investing career was at a standstill for those three years, and I couldn’t expand until ultimately going back to the workforce and getting some tea for income again and being able to ramp up my portfolio again starting in 2014. And again, I use the house stacking strategy two more times just to kind of leverage my capital and take advantage of the low expenses and being able to deleverage. And from there, I just kind of expanded into larger multifamily. I got and made my first four plex. I got into the short-term Airbnb properties, which is actually how, you know, Sandy and I connected two years ago on Airbnb. We’ll talk about that and then into more recent years, like getting into like larger bird projects, mixed use commercial, forming a corporation and getting into some larger real estate and better strategies. And that kind of takes me to where I am today, combined with doing more joint venture deals, bringing other investors into these deals that I’m getting into and coaching people along the way, helping them start. And go through those same challenges and obstacles that I went through during that 10 12-year phase.
Sandy Mackay [00:12:23] Awesome, and what sort of strategy? So now you’re you focusing on a specific strategy now or how has that changed over the years? You mentioned a few different strategies you’ve been involved in. Is there is there like one that you stick to now or is it kind of still a little bit of scattered around in different areas?
Bryan Bouchard [00:12:40] At the basis of it is still multi-family. I’ve tried to keep as many properties as possible of not really slipper, I didn’t get into that. I try to keep everything that I buy. That said, at this point, I sold off a couple of my weakest performing properties, just like the early duplexes that have just skyrocketed in value and the rents have not kept up. So those ones, I’m just rolling that capital into like larger burn projects. So like I do like the idea of recycling capital quicker, getting it back out to reinvest. But I do like multiple strategies like I’m in more of, like the reconstruction and development side now, just because that provides like some turnkey. Hands off type of investing because the multifamily and the coaching, and I’m the mortgage agent as well, just kind of juggling all those businesses together takes a lot of my time. So I want some of my portfolio at least to be in like a hands-off turnkey type of situation. So I’ve gotten into the pre-construction in Alberta as well. I just picked up a couple of townhouses out there this week. So yeah, I mean, in a nutshell, I’m still in multiple strategies. Go wherever the deals are and investing in several different markets within southern Ontario still with a primary focus being multi-family.
Rob Break [00:13:58] Very cool. OK, so you mentioned. A few minutes ago about income and financing being sort of one of the roadblocks that you ran into at a certain time. What are some of the other ones?
Bryan Bouchard [00:14:15] Some of the other ones, I mean, lack of capital, of course, is something that everybody runs into. You want to expand your portfolio and get into as many dealers as you can, but you don’t have enough capital to do that. So that’s a common obstacle. And I guess the solution to that on my end after I had the experience and the knowledge doing these deals was to bring in investment partners who wanted to be hands off and wanted to get into real estate as an investor but didn’t have the experience or the confidence or the time to manage these properties. So that’s where we can form a partnership and create a win situation where I can leverage my experience and put systems in place to buy these properties and manage them. Whereas the cash partner can just invest the capital and get the solid gains of real estate multifamily without the day-to-day activities. So that’s kind of how I overcame the capital side of things. But yeah, I’ve been on the financing. That’s another common issue that people run into is hitting a roadblock of financing. And there could be many reasons for that. Commonly, if you’re only investing in in single family, non-cash flowing real estate projects, those properties will hinder your mortgage application because of the formula that the lenders use. So you can hit that roadblock a lot sooner by having a different portfolio from someone who might be outside of the GTA in multifamily, whereas those families going to those properties can actually help your application. The financing is a roadblock. Capital is a roadblock. And then the third one would be. I didn’t have a lot of guidance in the beginning, like I did everything on my own, reading a lot of books, listening to the podcasts and watching videos, things like that, and then just kind of learning on my own and gaining experience as I was expanding my portfolio as opposed to having a mentor, a coach, you could have scaled that a lot faster. So education is huge. And having that accountability is another one
Sandy Mackay [00:16:21] that many challenges being youthful and younger than probably most people around in their area world. I think some people get a little self-conscious around that being, you know, if you were 21 22 kind of starting out in this, you’re usually one of the youngest guys in the room around most circles. So any challenges around that or that that that matter to you or if it didn’t hinder you at all, kind of how does that work? Because a lot of people think, you know, think they’re way too young to be doing this stuff?
Bryan Bouchard [00:16:49] Yeah, no. I did feel that like buying my very first property and then living upstairs and renting out the basement. I remember just like putting the ad up and then doing the showings and having a lot of people come through the property that were a lot older than me. And then like kind of asking, like, Is this your parents’ house? Do you own this? Are you an agent? Things like that. And no, no. And I was a first-time investor and first-time landlord. So I mean, my systems were not that great. So I probably did come off as an inexperienced landlord and I was. So I mean, it was kind of strange, but I mean, like the demand was there. I knew what I had to do, and I just kind of went through the process as myself. But I mean, it was like a, I guess, a mental constraint for a little bit. Just on my first property, I because I went through a couple of tenants just in my first one and then I didn’t really let that age thing bother me to too much. However, like I kind of touched on earlier was the mortgage business is trying to start the mortgage business at age 24. That’s where I felt a lot more pushback was knocking on people’s doors and saying, Can I help you with like refinancing or buying selling stuff like that? And I just didn’t really get very good response at that age. No, there was an element of it, for sure, being, you know, 20 to starting my portfolio.
Rob Break [00:18:07] What about partners or people that are, you know, partnering up with you to do these projects? Any pushback from them in that way?
Bryan Bouchard [00:18:21] No, not now. Like, I’m in my 30s now, I’m an old guy. Yeah, but no, I wasn’t doing the partner thing. Like in the beginning, my first right program was with my brother, and then I was just maybe only three years ago when I started doing these deals. And you know, the age thing or experience thing was never an issue. I think, you know, your confidence just builds as you gain more experience and knowledge in the industry and people don’t even worry about that type of thing.
Rob Break [00:18:48] You know, I think it’s all about track record really. Like, it doesn’t matter if somebody is 50 years old, if they’ve never renovated a house or never refinanced the house or let up a project, then you know it doesn’t matter how old they are. Some of those 22 or 23 that’s been through it a couple of times is a lot more experience than that 50-year-old.
Bryan Bouchard [00:19:08] So yes, the point if you can show some results and even like break down a couple of deals that you’ve done and this is this is how you would get your capital back, this is the time frame. This is a breakdown of the property and how it operates income and expenses. They’re going to be like, wow, OK, you know your stuff. Those barriers don’t exist anymore. Where can I invest? How can I invest that?
Sandy Mackay [00:19:29] So I mean, you do have a nice claim to Fame Millionaire by 30, which is a great thing is I know a million millionaire. Give me a lot of different things for different people, I suppose, in terms of how you calculate that, I guess. But how do you how did you do that? And it seems like a short time jam to do that. But by 30, you know, someone’s out there kind of listening and they were in their twenties, maybe. And they’re kind of thinking, wow, that that would be cool if I could say that too. Is there a play? Is there a suggestion on how they should go about that? Or maybe just how you went about that and how the how that math added up? I mean, we started it. You started with it sound like five percent down. I’m assuming that’s probably all the cash you had or most of the cash you had in life. And so starting out with that and going to a million bucks in pretty short period there. Any tips or strategies that that you used or that you can recommend for someone else looking to do similar?
Bryan Bouchard [00:20:19] Yeah. At the beginning there, at age 22, my net worth would have been like 30 grand to get started in that in that five percent down scenario, but that five percent down was, you know, 200 60k properties, $30000 down payment and closing costs took like most of what I had. But I guess the key elements to allow me to grow to that seven-figure mark in eight years. Was the commitment to the game and to continue growing, to continue learning, I read a ton of books. I was just committed to growing. I put a lot of focus and emphasis on wealth. And another key element was living below my means. Like, I did not fall into the trap of like the material game and like driving the expensive cars and going on with the luxury vacations. I think that’s a super common thing these days is to kind of compare yourself with others and to get into the spending habits. And yeah, I think it’s a trap. And I just. I stayed committed to keeping my expenses low. Like I said, I did the House hacking strategy three times and there’s big benefits to doing that. One, of course, is like keeping your expenses low and allowing you to save and invest more cash. Secondly, you get the experience as a as a real estate investor firsthand. You don’t have to drive anywhere you’re managing that property that you also live in. So you get the experience. And then also on the lending side, like if you have that extra source of income from your house, it’s going to allow you to leverage and gain another mortgage on their next property easier and faster. So just using that multiple times, getting creative. I even did like Airbnb on the property that I was living in, so I would rent out the basement and do here I was living in when I wasn’t there just for additional income streams. And I guess following Sammy. Committed to that like fire style of just keeping your expenses really low, I wasn’t ultimately like super frugal, but I mean, I didn’t buy nice cars until just several years ago. I would just drive what I needed and keep the expenses low and focus on building my portfolio. And, you know, now coaching people going through that same sort of process. I think people can do a lot faster than I did. I mean, I had that three-year standstill where I wasn’t buying more investment properties because I had no claimed income. So if you wipe that away and you can do it with a job like, I didn’t have some business that I grew and got lucky and sold it out for a high premium. It was just like regular tea for income investing, the rest, building the portfolio, leveraging it by refinancing, buying more property. I mean, I’m into like stocks and options as well. So having a couple of good gains there and just kind of rolling the profits and not spending it until you reach a point where I think you’re more comfortable.
Sandy Mackay [00:23:20] Well, the amazing thing with the five percent down to start to is you’re going to get appreciation on if you held those or some of those or one of them, at least even you’re going to gain appreciation, 100 percent of it living in five percent.
Bryan Bouchard [00:23:31] Twenty-point one leverage. That’s you. Yeah, yeah. The point is like starting early, right? Like, I started before I knew a whole lot about the game. Like, I would take the knowledge from the books and the educational resources, but. I didn’t wait too long to take action; I had enough money to do the five percent down. And I was like, OK, it’s time to get started by the first one and then just learn from there and expand where I know it’s common for people to hesitate a little bit too much and they might wait a couple of years. And in a bull market like this, those years are expensive.
Rob Break [00:24:03] That’s true. And how did you know that it was time to get started? Was there something that told you that it was just time I’d learned enough? Maybe. I don’t know everything, but I’ve learned enough and it’s time to go.
Bryan Bouchard [00:24:14] I think what really motivated me was the fact that I wasn’t happy with the job that I had. You know, I didn’t grow up with the guidance of being an investor or an entrepreneur by any means. It was like, you work for money, you trade your time for money. I got into a job that paid a decent amount, but it like there was no there was no balance of happiness. And the other areas of my life. And then just like you are coming across that kiyosaki book and all the ones that followed that shifted my mindset completely. And by changing my mindset, I was like, okay, how can I do this? And those books really push real estate. And so as I got to get real estate, it’s got to be at least one of the streams of income for me to read to achieve financial freedom. And then I just started researching and researching, understanding the power of leverage. And once I had enough capital and I was just like, OK, I mean, I think I’m ready to do this. I mean, I had some education, but I was willing to just jump in and take the risk. What’s the downside here? Most people will buy their first property when they can and just live in it. I’m taking less risk by buying a property and renting a portion of it out, so I was ready to jump in. Willing to make some mistakes, I did. I didn’t know much about like managing tenants or doing repairs and things like that. But it all comes with the experience. You learn so much faster by doing it as opposed to reading it or hearing about other people doing it.
Sandy Mackay [00:25:34] Yeah, yeah.
Rob Break [00:25:36] I think one of the big things, though, that people do get stuck on is just not knowing when it’s time. Like saying, I’m going to wait to try and figure it out or see what happens in the market and all those kind of things. And I think that that is one of the biggest things that hinder people from the success that real estate can provide for people is just, well, I’m ready to go, but I want to wait and see what happens for a little bit. And truth is, you’re never going to know what happens when, when, when do you when do you say, OK, I’ve seen what happens. So I think I like your point. There is just that, OK, you know, I have learned a little bit, but I do actually have the cash. I do actually qualify for the mortgage, so there’s technically nothing. On the on the tangible side that you can’t do, it’s all on the mindset that would hold people back from that point.
Bryan Bouchard [00:26:36] Rob it is a common situation for people to be in because there’s a lot of educational resources out there and people are pretty educated and, you know, they’re kind of like, quote unquote ready but still hesitant. So I don’t think there’s like a magic time for when to do that or where you supposed to do. But it could be like that missing element might be like accountability or someone to give you that push. And you know, that’s what I’ve noticed with some of my clients who are like, they’ve been ready. And once we start working together and we start like analyzing properties and making it realistic for them and their situation and like, OK, it’s time to start looking and putting offers them and actually making this real. And it’s like, wow, OK, that was probably the step or the missing element that I needed to actually take action was to have somebody on my team that has done this before and can give me that green light that this is the time to do it because sometimes we just kind of hold ourselves back or create excuses or like that whole wait and see thing common.
Rob Break [00:27:34] And to your point, it is a lot less risky to buy a house with a portion of it. To rent out and live in the other half is way less risky than just buying a house for yourself to live in. Yeah, a lot of people don’t look at it that way, though. It’s just, yeah, OK, so let’s talk about your coaching a little bit. How does that work? Like, how are you helping people out?
Bryan Bouchard [00:27:55] So I start with like initial consultations with people, and I get on the phone a lot just to kind of talk and understand people’s situations and the common problems. See a lot of patterns. We’ve spoken about a few of them there, but most people come to me for the real estate knowledge. They see kind of the content that I’m posting and the results and the breakdowns that I do. So they come to either start or expand their real estate portfolio. And that’s kind of the main goal that we want to focus on. But I mean, I have a lot of experience on the personal finance side and even like the stocks and portfolio side, I worked as. I worked as a financial adviser for a while as well. And so I kind of tie in those personal finance elements with the real estate side and say they might come to buy a couple of real estate properties or multifamily. But once we’ll take a deeper dove into their current situation and lay it out onto the table, what their income is and you kind of understand their cash flow, their availability to credit borrowing power, then I might see some opportunities to optimize the situation before we even get into real estate. So, I mean, I tie all of the elements into it. All of the personal finance things and then focus on the goals will also kind of really get a clearer vision on what it is that they want lifestyle wise five to 10 years from now, as opposed to just focusing on my getting a property. It’s like, why do you want the property? What is the longer-term goal? And let’s try and reverse engineer that and break it down into steps of what you need to be doing today to get you to that lifestyle and not fall into the trap of just more and more and more. So I guess like the way that I do it is start by understanding their current situation on a deeper level, understanding their vision and their goals on a deeper level, and then just trying to bridge the gaps that they can get there in the lot faster time and doing it all on their own makes sense.
Sandy Mackay [00:29:48] Do you find people have like a clearer outlook on what their goals are or their vision? Or that’s something that maybe some people need some help with through just I find I noticed some people want nice looking things and nice vacations that it’s not like. It’s hard to really pinpoint exactly what they’re after.
Rob Break [00:30:05] Sometimes it’s not specific. I want to be warm and I want to, and I want to, you know, have some bling.
Bryan Bouchard [00:30:10] Yeah, yeah. No, it’s a big topic to focus on, and there is a lot of disparity between different people and what their goals and vision really is. A lot of people might see real estate as a good way to make money and build wealth. But when we start talking about the why and what it is that you’re trying to build, it’s kind of a different conversation and sometimes people don’t really know. But I like to have a few conversations on that to really nail it down because it’s also going to build excitement when you can start visualizing what the what kind of lifestyle this is going to build for you. I feel you’re going to be a lot more driven, driven to make this happen because like. In real estate, you guys know it’s ups and downs, you’re going to have your problems, you’re going to have your issues, it can be stressful at times, but when you really know what it is that you want, what you’re going to get in the future, and that’s delayed gratification. It’s going to be a lot easier to kind of put the pieces together now to go through those ups and downs.
Sandy Mackay [00:31:11] Yeah, absolutely. Is that so when you work with people as it is, it is usually for as long as it’s for a month, isn’t for a year, is it for 10 years or what’s the programs like?
Bryan Bouchard [00:31:24] Typically, I work with people for six or 12 months. Some people stay on longer. I don’t even do a term contract. We go as long as needed. Rather than committing upfront for how long it’s going to be. Everybody’s situation is different. Everyone has a different starting point, different ending point. So we go as long as needed and we just hop on calls biweekly to just discuss strategy, to discuss goals and to keep them accountable. Kind of nailed down the things that you should be focusing on. Follow up from the calls before. And just like stay focused on all of these wealth building strategies, I find it’s effective because without that, it’s easy to be distracted by everything else. It’s easy to be influenced by the people in our immediate circle. So you just want to be constantly having these conversations, taking you to a higher level of thinking, to a higher level of your wealth and to introduce like new ideas. I mean, I kind of break the whole coaching program or relationship down into three pillars. One being education and kind of enlightening them on some new ideas that may not have even crossed their mind yet. And the second pillar would be strategy, and that’s putting those ideas into practice and making that actually work and build wealth. And then the third part is holding them accountable and actually making them take action on these strategies, and the idea is to put it into fruition.
Rob Break [00:32:40] So just so people can get an idea, maybe, of how the lifestyle goals look. Let’s talk a little bit about yours. Like what? What kind of lifestyle goals do you have?
Bryan Bouchard [00:32:51] Yeah. The reason for me to get into real estate investing was always to just build a life of freedom. It was always freedom based. It was to have my time back to do what I wanted to not necessarily answer to anybody. To be able to travel live anywhere in the world, I wanted to kind of operate businesses from my phone and my laptop. I don’t have the vision of just kind of laying on a beach and retiring early, doing nothing, just because knowing my mindset and experience. I do enjoy the game like I love, you know, growing businesses, growing the portfolio. I like managing investments. I like staying in tune with the market. I like helping people, coaching people. Being on the phone. Building my network and other businesses. Still learning. Still reading. Still expanding my knowledge. Big into fitness. I like to grow, you know, on a physical level, mental level, emotional level, all those things. I want to have a balanced life in all those key areas, not just wealth. But that said, I’m a believer that you need to grind it out for like five to 10 years, sometimes less to get that money. Part of it solved. And once the money part of it is solved, you can now allocate your time to the other areas that are more important than money. Money is just like stored value, but once you kind of understand the game and automate it, you can have income coming in without your efforts anymore. And that’s like the best part. Or like the best stage of money to reach is not having to worry about money anymore. But that said, most people who have reached that still continue to get wealthier and wealthier because they’re already addicted to the game. They found new skills, new passions, new hobbies, and they monetize them. And that’s kind of what I wanted to do was to be able to travel the world and have amazing experiences while still helping people, still growing my business or growing my portfolio. Staying in tune with the market, staying physically fit active, you know, a lot of sunshine escape the Canadian winters. That was always a big motivator for me. That’s the type of lifestyle that I always wanted, and it’s amazing to be able to achieve that at a young age as opposed to waiting until like sixty-five, where you may not have the energy anymore or you may not have the good health anymore, you want to have all of those areas of life maximized and be balanced. But I think to get to that balance stage, you kind of have to put a little more analysis on the money. Wealth career investing side just to get you in a more comfortable position overall.
Rob Break [00:35:22] Well, like what said about working, like grinding it out at first too, because a lot of people as easy as it is actually to just go out and get your first rental property at a certain point. Like, it’s probably going to be the easiest one you buy. And so that being said, that can that just that one property can create such wealth. But like in order to get there in order to have the capital to pull the trigger that first time, it’s very important to grind it out. Like people, people just think if they’re going to start investing with real estate, they it’s sort of like this magic key and they’re waiting to hear that that little bit of information that’s going to like, that’s going to. I don’t know, somehow open up a door that no one else has access to. And that’s just not the case, he got to work hard at first, right?
Bryan Bouchard [00:36:18] Absolutely. Yeah, it is a grind and it stays a grind for several years. I mean, even in the early, the early years and now there’s sacrifices that we make. And you know, you might compare to people in your close circle who just kind of work a nine to five. And when you hang out on weekends, they don’t take their job home with them. Their job is completely out of their mind. They’re fully present on like spending time with you and enjoying it. And you’re kind of envious of that for a bit. You’re like, wow, which would be nice because I’ve got two techs right now with a leaking roof and a poor foundation. And I’ve got angry tenants who aren’t paying, and this is how I’m spending my Saturday afternoon and I can’t focus on what we’re trying to do here because I’ve got these underlying issues in the back of my mind. And that’s kind of the grind it out type of mindset that I’m referring to here is making some sacrifices. But having that longer term vision makes it pretty easy, like, you know what you you’re going to get in the future. It’s not that bad. These are a good problem to have. I mean, this is building wealth for you, and I think you’re going to get paid for the problems that you solve. So you have more problems like that and your phone’s going off and you have management teams in place, you’re solving bigger problems, you’re going to get paid for those problems and it’s going to be worth it in the end. That’s kind of the philosophy that I’ve had on the longer-term vision.
Rob Break [00:37:31] Yeah, that’s just it. When I hear people talk about tenants and toilets issue, I’m like, you know, if you can’t put up with a little bit of adversity to get, you know, some long-term wealth like you’re talking about, then yeah, you may as well not start, you know, again, just start your job.
Sandy Mackay [00:37:48] The bigger problem is the bigger you get paid. So if you can’t handle the small ones. Good luck handling big ones and good luck. The money part’s not going to show up unless you’re handling big problems. That’s, I think, a science.
Bryan Bouchard [00:37:59] Yeah, I’m sure you guys have heard this so many times, like when you’re going through a really bad tenant issue or you’re going to court or they’re just not paying, they’re trashing your house that had those problems. And then, you know, people who are not in real estate, they’re like, that’s why I don’t do it. You know, they’re like, I don’t do it because of those problems. I don’t want to be fixing those toilets or I don’t want to be dealing with tenants or I don’t want to be taking phone calls. And they’re like, that’s why I don’t do it. But on the flip side, like that, regular lifestyle might involve working for four decades, trading 40 hours per week, just so you don’t have to avoid that, just so you don’t have to have those tenant issues. I mean, which probably wouldn’t you rather out? I’m like, I can’t commit to 40 40 years of 40 hours per week and not having that freedom that schedule, having to like to ask for time off. No, I’m willing to take I’m going to take those phone calls and I mean, even on the property management topic. Having those calls and stuff, if you have a good network, a good team in place, those problems can be solved pretty quickly. And what I’ve learned kind of going through this for many years is just attack them right away. The tenant comes with you at you with a problem you’re tempted to, just like, put it away for the day. I’ll deal with it tomorrow later. Like, if you just like, have a system for calling your repair or contractor and like just dealing with that problem right away, you’re going to get it out of your hair. The tenants are going to be really happy. And then you’re just going to be a more successful real estate investor and not push it off till later. Just kind of attack these problems that aren’t.
Sandy Mackay [00:39:30] Yeah, that’s most things in life, really, right? The problem shows up any time you kind of procrastinate on them and typically just builds and becomes worse. That’s usually the same for a house problem or a tenant problem. It’s very similar, right?
Bryan Bouchard [00:39:45] That’s right. But in the meantime, let’s
Sandy Mackay [00:39:46] talk about a story about Airbnb vs quickly, because we that’s how we connect. It actually was how staying on your Airbnb is. This must have been 20, 18 or 19. I want to say 18. Maybe this will have that property or do you still you’re still doing Airbnb is at all.
Bryan Bouchard [00:40:01] So I still have that property that’s going to be the next one on the list to unload just because I originally bought that property to live in. It has a basement apartment and I was living in the upper unit, which is a nice, renovated unit. Yeah, I mean, I hope you enjoyed it. And after I moved out of it, I turned it into an Airbnb because there was huge demand there in that area of St. Catharines, being really close to Niagara Falls Niagara on the lake. Popular spot for like wine tours. And it can host like eight people. So it was really popular on Airbnb. The income was fantastic. It was going really well until COVID hit. And then once COVID hit March 2020, all of the future bookings just started dropping off. Everybody canceled, of course. So I was forced to make a decision there, and I just made it into a longer-term rentals. So I just kind of turned it into a standard duplex. But because it’s a higher end home, the cash flow is not going to be great on a duplex like that. But I did get fortunate by having a good tenant who is a corporation that’s putting their employees there. They’re putting four of their employees there. They kind of do work across Canada and they need temporary places to stay. So as opposed to putting them in for hotel rooms, it’s cheaper and more efficient to put them in a house where they have a kitchen, they can cook and live a regular life, so they paid higher than market rent for that. And I rented it fully furnished. It was. I still had all my stuff there from the Airbnb, so I tried to rent it up fully furnished first and I got this tenant and they’ve been there for almost a year now. And yeah, it’s been. It’s been optimized and it was a good pivot when COVID hit. But now, as that lease is coming to an end at the end of this month, now I’m going to unload that property. It serves better as a primary residence potential with the basement income to keep your expenses low. And then I’ll just kind of roll that profit into like a larger deal, potentially a commercial deal or whatever, whatever opportunities come up.
Sandy Mackay [00:42:01] Well, Rob, we haven’t. We haven’t talked a lot about that with our guests around Airbnb during COVID. I don’t know if we’ve touched on that too much, but that would have been a maybe we need to bring on someone like that. And really, as someone who has got a big Airbnb portfolio and see what, see what, what their experience was like?
Rob Break [00:42:16] Yeah, well, I would imagine especially, yeah, I would imagine most of them have a similar story to that, like a little bit of a pivot, maybe through that time.
Bryan Bouchard [00:42:25] Yeah, yeah. But it would pretty much just focus is on the Airbnb strategy and has a portfolio of like 20 condos, a big team in place and all of a sudden it just shuts down quickly like that. I was only running the one property, so it’s very easy for me to make a point of it. But someone who’s got
Rob Break [00:42:43] full time, I noticed a shift in like, for example, we were looking at a bigger vacation property over last summer and I was looking at the ads that they had out for this. It was on Airbnb as well, and they had shifted the wording to bring your 10, bring the 10 people in your bubble. Come stay. It was like that became a popular term last summer. Your bubble, you know, and people, people thought it was people were very accepting of their bubble and bringing them along. So that seemed to be a little bit of a shift anyway in the wording that they were using them to.
Bryan Bouchard [00:43:23] Yeah. On the topic of Airbnb, though, I think we’re just on the brink of that. That whole space really ramping up like people are itching to spend money again as the economy opens up and they just want to get out, they want to get away, see their friends again. So the people that are in the Airbnb space are on the on the cusp of doing so, I think can profit really, really well if they’re situated in the right areas.
Sandy Mackay [00:43:45] I agree. I’m starting out basically right now, depending on where you’re at and location wise in Ontario, for sure and starting now, you know, they’re going to have a big I agree there could be a run of six months a year of the opposite of last year, right? Probably prices getting pushed up. Absolutely. What are your plans for the future? What, what have you got coming up that they are working on?
Bryan Bouchard [00:44:12] I mean, larger multifamily deals, I’m looking to get deeper into the development space, have an opportunity with some really, really big developers and corporations that are doing some interesting projects in the Ontario resort space. So I’m looking to dove into that one for the obvious benefit of the financial return, but also to build my network and learn from these developers to potentially get into that space myself. The larger game plan is to bring other people into the deals and raise money from investors and kind of manage a portfolio for them and build capital for other people and expand like the coaching, mentoring education business. And I want to focus more on the people who are just beginning at this stage like my one-on-one coaching is more people who are at intermediate level. They have cash to invest. It’s like optimizing and scaling their portfolio. But I think there’s a much bigger need for the people who are just starting out that aren’t really financially set yet, and they need some guidance and direction. So I mean, might last longer term vision for that business is to really focus on the people who are just starting getting their first property or even like changing their mindset on money and investing and personal finance and giving them that sort of guidance to build their dreams and live the lifestyle that they want. I think it’s not that complicated or that hard, but it requires some education and some discipline, and I think there’s a big opportunity because. I mean, it’s getting harder to get started these days for the younger generation and like buying their first home and things like that just as one example. Interest rates are very low. That’s great, but prices are super high. It’s tough to get qualified. A lot of people are in that position where they’re kind of stuck in their job. They don’t know what to do. They understand that that’s not the life that they want to live, but they just don’t know what the next step is. So I think targeting that group and helping them take the next step, which can really launch their investing and financial career going forward as long as they start early and stay committed to it. I mean, that’s one of my big goals is to focus on that and of course, like scale my own portfolio. Keep doing what I’m doing. But with that balance in mind of not becoming fully invested time wise in my portfolio, so I’m trying to automate a lot of my income by having a strong team in place, managing the multifamily and also getting into the development, which is a little bit more turnkey as an investor. But as if I’m going to be a developer myself, that’s going to be more of an active income. But I think it’s going to be a passion project as opposed to some other types of investments, and I’m pretty big into the stocks and options game. That’s something I’m super passionate about. I have a lot of fun doing that can do it from anywhere in the world on my phone. Another source of income from options premiums and dividends. Super cool. That’s a good, longer-term strategy. But I think you need a pretty good sum of money to be making that like a good source of income. So I think that like real estate should come first and then diversify into like the stocks and options afterwards. That’s just like my personal preference on that.
Sandy Mackay [00:47:27] I know you can build so much wealth in real estate. I think stocks, options and not you can build some good cash flow. But you’re not going to build the big chunks of wealth, necessarily unless you’re making high risk plays.
Bryan Bouchard [00:47:40] Exactly like I think real estate is a good balance, a pretty low risk but huge, huge potential for returns on make the capital gains side and being able to refinance tax free like it’s super tax efficient. Whereas I mean, if you buy Tesla stock and sell it at three X, I mean, you’re just paying pure capital gains on that. There’s no tax deductions is not a lot of leveraging opportunities you can borrow against your stocks, but real estate so much easier you’re not going to get margin called really low-key lock rates. Refinance rates and just keep leveraging. I mean, it’s amazing, but I love to like to build a portfolio of several real estate projects, a nice stock portfolio dividend portfolio. You’ve got options of cryptocurrency. And then as new investment opportunities come up, you’re looking at your portfolio like, where can I draw money from? And you’ve got all of these options. All of these ATMs sort of Typekit tap into and to get the capital to just like jump on these new opportunities. And I don’t like saying no to new opportunities where you got to have these systems in place to be able to pull capital from. And just like. Always have it optimized, and then I mean, the credit side is a totally different ball game and having credit available to jump on opportunities as well.
Rob Break [00:48:51] Well, let’s leave everybody with a little bit of a tip here. So what is one piece of advice or information or saying or something like that that you that’s always stuck with you? And how has it helped you along the way?
Bryan Bouchard [00:49:09] That’s funny, because the one that comes to mind comes from my dad, and like I said, don’t you just come from a financial background or investing background or entrepreneurial or business background? But it was a piece of financial advice that stopped me, and it came on the topic. We were talking about taxes and I was like in my early 20s working a job that I didn’t like. And I remember hearing from some of my coworkers about tax brackets. You don’t want to you don’t want to cross that tax bracket because you’re going to end up paying more and all that kind of stuff. And I was really trying to understand that I remember having a conversation with my dad and he told me how the tax brackets actually worked. And it’s funny. I actually ran a poll on Instagram and then kind of put a scenario-based question recently, and a lot of people were under the misconception that I was as well. And on the example, I used to be something like, say, the tax bracket is that $100000 an employee a makes $99000 gross and Employee B makes one hundred and one thousand dollars gross. Which employee has a higher net income? And most people answered that wrong, right? That tax bracket, like I said, is at 100 K, and most people would say that Employee A has the higher net incomes because they don’t cross that tax bracket. But the way that the tax bracket works as your only employee, B is only paying that higher rate from one hundred thousand to one hundred and one the only thing the higher rate on the one K. So Employee B has the higher net income and the peace. And my dad explained that to me, it was like a light bulb moment like, wow, yeah, that makes sense. Otherwise, everyone would try and stay under these tax brackets for obvious reasons to not pay more. And what he said to me was like, I guess the ending quote is like, Yeah, don’t be afraid of making too much money. Like for a reason, my taxes. And I was like, wow, that was that really stuck with me? And I’m like, Holy crap. Like, a lot of people still didn’t understand that. And then I was just like, Yeah, OK. I mean, you got to pay your fair share of taxes, and there’s many ways to optimize your tax bill. There’s no there’s no reason to lead a tent, right? So I mean, just kind of using that knowledge and kind of, I guess, expanding on it and finding tax advantaged vehicles like real estate, that’s kind of where I took that, that quote or that that piece of financial advice. Don’t be afraid of making too much money.
Rob Break [00:51:30] I love that. Thanks for sharing that. And it is. It is it is a strange mentality because I remember being around a bunch of coworkers thinking the same thing, right? You know, make sure you figure out how much overtime you can do to make sure that you just walk that fine line and don’t make too much money. Yeah, I was aware of that.
Sandy Mackay [00:51:50] And realtors think that all the time to they’re going to make too much money and they’re going to have to pay too much.
Bryan Bouchard [00:51:56] But the weak excuse, the sense of limiting belief, why it’s like there.
Rob Break [00:52:02] Yeah. So you’re saying Sandy that someone’s like, well, if I do one more deal, it’s going to push me over. Better, just chill on the beach. Really, all the time is my mentality would be, well, I’ll try and push for 10 more, then
Sandy Mackay [00:52:15] they don’t get that. They don’t get exactly what you just said, which is it’s not on the whole amount, it’s just that extra amount over. That’s amazing. How many people don’t understand that?
Bryan Bouchard [00:52:24] Yeah, yeah. It was more than 50 percent of the people answered that. That incorrectly and I mean, it’s just partly because like, where? Where do you learn that? Where does the common person learn how tax bracket works or how the tax system works and deductions and employees versus self-employed or corporations like this? Major loopholes like legal loopholes and advantages in the tax system and understanding why employees are taxed so hard versus self-employed and in corporations, it starts to make sense. I mean, you’re either creating a job where you’re taking a job and when you take a job, the government gets a bigger piece of the income. The government wants you to create jobs.
Sandy Mackay [00:53:00] Yeah, there’s a lot of like there’s a big gap in the general education around that. I think you’ve got to be self-taught for the most part. Exactly. You might be able to get a bit of that in a in a in a in a certain degree or something at a school. But even then, it’s not it’s not necessarily geared towards definitely not geared towards running your own businesses and things like that. And it’s not just going to say,
Rob Break [00:53:21] you know, let’s be honest, there’s really no reason why they should be teaching that in school. Come on, we don’t mean that’s not important. Hey, listen, how can people like interested in your coaching course get in touch?
Bryan Bouchard [00:53:36] Instagram is the best way. That’s where I put the bulk of my time on social media, and you can just either reach out to them or just kind of click the link for like a consultation that we can discuss further. But I, I recommend just finished shooting me a message telling me that, you know, they watch this. They watch this show this episode and wanted to learn more about the coaching or maybe get pre-approved for a mortgage. And we can certainly talk more
Rob Break [00:54:03] right on us, and I’m sure there’ll be people reaching out to you. So. Sandy, how can people get in touch with the
Sandy Mackay [00:54:10] same as always, two eight nine three eight nine six eight four six or Sandy at the Cambrils network?
Rob Break [00:54:16] And people can reach me at Rob at Mr Breakthrough Dossier. You know, I really appreciate everything you shared today. I think that there was a lot of golden nuggets and that’s what we look for nowadays, right? You know, there is there’s not a lot of new information, but I think we got some today. So I really appreciate you coming on.
Bryan Bouchard [00:54:33] That’s big. I appreciate that, guys. That’s I mean, you just got a lot of episodes under your belt. So if there was something unique or new about this, then that’s huge win. So I mean, I always love having these conversations regardless, but hopefully I can benefit from them. That’s the purpose.
Rob Break [00:54:47] Well, again, we appreciate it and everybody listening and watching. We’ll see you next time.
Bryan Bouchard [00:54:53] All right, gentlemen, take.