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Dave Dubeau [00:00:08] Everyone, Dave Dubeau here with another episode of the Property Profits Real Estate podcast today, zooming in from beautiful Las Vegas, Nevada. Joel Sangerman about Joel how’s it going in Las Vegas.
Joel Sangerman [00:00:21] Wes Anderson, Nevada Henderson, let’s not
Dave Dubeau [00:00:23] forget the stories. Well, that’s fairly close to Vegas, isn’t it?
Joel Sangerman [00:00:28] Look, we just got a minor league hockey team. One hundred and silver nights.
Dave Dubeau [00:00:34] All right. I’m sorry. Henderson, Nevada, there you go. There you go. We’re in for a treat here today, you guys, because Joel, you wouldn’t know it from looking at the guy who’s been doing real estate investing for over 30 years. He’s very, very, extremely creative. And in fact, one of his claims of Ames is that he could show anybody how to buy any house from any seller and make it profitable. Now that is a tall order there, my friend will jump into that bed. But first of all, can you kind of, if you don’t mind, just kind of give me your philosophy around? Dealing with sellers and buying properties, because it’s really, really interesting.
Joel Sangerman [00:01:16] Well, let me say thank you for the compliment. First, I have been doing this for 30 years. I’ll be turning 50 for this year and most people tell me I don’t look a day over 53.
Dave Dubeau [00:01:26] You don’t. So I’m 52 of people. Don’t tell me I look a day over 72. So here
Joel Sangerman [00:01:33] you go. Nice. Nice. That’ll work. Now I put I put you below that. I take the under on that in Vegas style. So, yeah, we can buy any house from any seller. And even if it’s underwater, meaning if it’s overleveraged, there’s more financing on it than the house is worth. And the reason we can do that is because we use creative structures. But going further than that, what I really hope my clients do is understand that they need to ask the right questions to the seller. The seller is going to be disposed to selling their property in a particular way. And as we discuss alternatives with them, we’ll learn at some point that they’re not only going to do one thing, no matter how much we talk to them. So we have a strategy that allows you to simply take what they’re going to do and plug them in to that solution in a way that makes money for us, including full retail. If they want to sell full retail, we’ll take them down the road of using a realtor and then we have relationships with realtors where we can get paid that way. And in that sense,
Dave Dubeau [00:02:40] Joel, how does that compare to how most? Guys and gals go about it when they’re making offers on properties.
Joel Sangerman [00:02:48] Yeah, it’s a great question. It’s one of the big pitfalls and one of the reasons people fail in real estate. The majority of people actually fail in real estate. And what I’ve learned is that most coaches will try to project one strategy onto a seller. For example, if you’re a fix and flip guy or if you are a buy and hold person, if you’re fix and flip, you got to get a property that has enough equity that you can get the property cheap enough, or you have to be able to embellish the repairs to a great enough degree that you can get a low enough price. And then you also have to get the seller to take a low enough price. So you’re already eliminating a vast majority of houses right there. If you’re buying hold, you’re pretty much going to have to get someone to agree to take monthly payments for a period of time until you cash out. But when you can combine those strategies along with some of the other things we do, then we simply plug the seller into to what’s going to work for them so that we can increase our conversion ratio and increase our return on ad spend.
Dave Dubeau [00:03:51] Yeah, well, most definitely. So kind of takes me back to the day when I first got into real estate investing and I bought a course off our mutual friend, Mr. Ron Legrand, all about how to add further, how to get into creative deals that he you turned me into a transaction engineer was the oven the terminology use there. However, it sounds like you’ve taken that and you just taken it to the next level because, you know, there were a few things that I could do on a on a pretty consistent basis. But paying full retail really wasn’t in the books for pretty much any of those kind of strategies. So. You know, without. We don’t have enough time to get into everything, but what are what are the different options that you’re putting out there in front of people? And how are you able to basically do any deal with any house that comes across your desk?
Joel Sangerman [00:04:44] Yeah. I mean, it’s interesting that you bring up Ron, because going back 30 years ago when I got started, I actually started with Carlton Sheets, who unfortunately passed away last year, but after Carlton. And as a much younger man, I was actually on that infomercial. If anyone has that infomercial from the 90s, I paid good money to see it because I can’t find a copy of it,
Dave Dubeau [00:05:01] which Carl Woods or Ron Howard tents. Khalil Gibran had brought out a couple of doors on his perversion. I was just going to make mention
Joel Sangerman [00:05:09] of that and that that is one of the ways that I connected up with Ron and Ron personally trained me. And I think he’s probably personally trained most of the mentors out there. So there’s no greater contributor to the field of real estate investing than then Ron Legrand. I think what I’ve added to the program that he’d beat into my head over so many years is that there have been quite a few technological advancements in terms of the way that we generate leads. You can still use a lot of the old school methods, but there is literally no one, and I can say this with abundant confidence. There’s no one that is generating leads and the way that we’re generating leads right now, we’ve got a strategy called hyperdrive, which uses Facebook ads. It’s the best way of generating motivated seller leads, but we do it in a very, very different way just to give your viewers a hot tip that might need a little bit more than this. But to put it in a nutshell, don’t run your Facebook ads directly to a website. Don’t run your Facebook ads to a form. Don’t do it that way. Most people scrolling through Facebook are, you know, they’re sitting on the throne in the morning having a coffee and just scrolling. There are time to fill out a
Dave Dubeau [00:06:22] form of multitasking or they’re at work. Yeah.
Joel Sangerman [00:06:28] So the best thing to do is you send them to messenger. You use the power of Facebook advertising; you send them into messenger. They click a button and boom; you got their name you. Usually you’ll be able to grab their email and phone number through a bot that we set up, and then you can have an interaction with them at any time when it’s more convenient for them to actually engage with your advertising. So in doing that, I teach that I help people do that. There’s people who have already sort of lifted that technique from my program, and they’re selling it for tens of thousands of dollars. It’s not as good, but that will give you a tremendous number of leads. You have a tsunami of leads coming in that all are a little bit more motivated than the usual suspects. So in that sense, we’re able to really take some of the very simple strategies that Ron teaches and convert more people because we have better leads coming into our inbox.
Dave Dubeau [00:07:21] But it sounds like you’ve got a few more strategies involved as well. So again, it’s been a decade and a half since I looked at Ron stuff, but you know, a lot of it was about creative deals and low money, no money down type things, sandwich leases, options, this kind of stuff. What else have you added to the mix where you can pretty much grab anybody that comes across your desk and turn that into a deal? You were talking to me offline a little bit about connections with realtors. So that that’s right. Absolutely convinced they’re going to sell for full retail. You can still make a few blocks away. So how does how does that kind of get?
Joel Sangerman [00:08:01] The whole key is this think of it in three dimensions. You’re either going to get a deal that’s so good that you’re going to close on it right away, either. The price is so good that you close on it right away or the terms are so good that you close on it right away. The other end of that spectrum is you really can’t get a deal that you want to invest in yourself. They aren’t going to sell it by owner. Why would they? How are they going to sell it by owner when all the buyers are locked up by realtors? Why are all the buyers locked up by realtors who pay full price and want to close quickly? Because it’s free, it’s free to a buyer. They get driven around in a Cadillac. They get taken to Starbucks; they get treated like royalty. They can tell someone, Do this, do that took me here. Take me there. Take me there. And when you do that, you get all the buyers. So one end of the spectrum, we get a great deal. The other end of the spectrum, we push it out to the realtor in the middle, though, and this is where a lot of money is and this is where a lot of investors fail or miss is that if you can just take the terms, the best deal that you can possibly get from that seller and write it up in an agreement and give yourself 90 days to close, then you found time to line your buyer up with better terms before you close with your seller and you can make the spread. Or if you don’t meet those terms, you will get a next best offer from the next best buyer, and you can go back to that seller and renegotiate those terms. Terms and then figure out a way to make a spread between the buyer and the seller. So in that sense, you’ve got a full spectrum of choices and a full complement of alternatives to take two sellers when you get them on the phone and they
Dave Dubeau [00:09:42] usually get it conceptually, can you kind of maybe off the top of your head? Walk us through an example of that middle category you’re talking about there?
Joel Sangerman [00:09:52] Definitely. What are you going to do finally? I closed on a deal on Friday of last week. Smaller deal made eighteen grand on it. That’s one of our smaller ones. I’ve got another one in a couple of weeks. I’ll make over 200000 on it, but it’s taken me a couple of years to produce that profit because I got the benefit of appreciation. So some of that is luck, right?
Dave Dubeau [00:10:12] So let’s look at the grand one, because that’s probably
Joel Sangerman [00:10:14] the 18 guys. So I had somebody come to me through our hyperdrive strategy, and we structured a deal on his house for one hundred and sixty five thousand dollars. That was my contract. The real value of the property might have been like one Adarsh, but there’s no realtor involved. So he gave me the benefit of that and he gave me 90 days to close on it. So I went and I put the property in anomalous advertising it with terms, also advertising it for cash. I put the price up pretty high. We put the price at two hundred. Ended up getting a buyer to come in just under two hundred thousand on the home. And it made sense to me that I would just now they used an FHA loan, so I couldn’t with FHA. I know, I know a lot of your viewers are in Canada, but you have to have seasoning of title before you can re transfer the property. So I knew that I needed to link up my seller directly with my buyer. So essentially what I did is I took our earlier agreement. We recorded it around the property, so that means there’s now a cloud on the title. And then I allowed the buyer that I got out of the multiple listing service through a realtor to link up directly with my seller and contract at that $200000 price. And then I agreed with the seller to pay all the costs so that he would not out one sixty five. So at the end of the day, I send the title company a payoff statement for eighteen thousand dollars to release the lean the cloud that I put on his property, which was just a memorandum of agreement affecting real estate, which was our earlier agreement. So on the closing statement, it shows the buyer’s transaction who I brought to the table and the seller’s transaction while also brought to the table. And then there I am in the middle as a lean payoff in paid 18, Grant never saw the property, never went to the property, never met the seller in person. Everything done virtually 100 percent from my office with Jake in Hollywood right behind me.
Dave Dubeau [00:12:10] What did your dad did? A heck of a great job with that period. I love it if my dad so and in that in that somewhere the realtor got paid right as he got this guy
Joel Sangerman [00:12:20] came out of my money remembers two hundred thousand coming in. So the realtor got the realtor got paid out of the seller side of the transaction, but I made it so that the seller netted the one sixty five that we agreed on and there was it, so there was enough money to pay the realtor and me.
Dave Dubeau [00:12:33] Now there’s the seller, every going to kind of pissy because he sees that the $200000 sale price and the one sixty five, what he’s what’s coming out of the bag for him. And he thought it was only worth 180.
Joel Sangerman [00:12:46] This guy was doing backflips down the hallway with glee. He was gone. He kind of an interesting story. He met like a much younger Filipino woman
Dave Dubeau [00:12:56] and a guy overseas that said, All right, and he’s moving to
Joel Sangerman [00:13:02] the Philippines. So he had a bank loan on it, a fifty one grand. So he paid off. The fifty one grand out of that walk at one hundred and thirteen took one hundred thirteen thousand dollars and his new wife to the Philippines and God only knows what they’re doing now. That was last Friday, so I
Dave Dubeau [00:13:17] thought, Well, you know, one hundred grand in the Philippines, the last of should last a while if he doesn’t go to grace.
Joel Sangerman [00:13:22] So that’s no doubt because we’re using virtual assistants out of there who make very, very little money relative to American and Canadian dollars.
Dave Dubeau [00:13:29] Yeah, definitely. Okay, that was a cool story. That’s fantastic. So what would you say? You know, you’ve got such a different variety of strategies with sellers. What would you say is kind of your normal bread and butter kind of deal? What’s the normal thing if there is such a thing as normal once?
Joel Sangerman [00:13:48] Yeah, I really try to get people to not think about pushing someone into a specific strategy but listening to what the seller wants. And then you’re able to show the seller your genuineness, your authenticity, your sincerity. And then because you’re able to communicate so many different alternatives to them, they see that you have competency, they feel like you have integrity. And then that’s usually where they will select you to help them dispose of their property. So if you, do it that way, your bread gets buttered a lot more, if you know what I mean. But if you’re asking me if I had my druthers, if I had my druthers, I like either free and clear houses or houses that are over leveraged. If it’s over leveraged, it’s very easy to just take over the debt on the house, people are willing to walk away from that because they can’t afford the payment. And you can have a golden goose that continuously lays golden eggs as you install lease option buyers where you’re getting a down payment, you’re getting a monthly spread, you’re getting a backend spread and you sometimes get to
Dave Dubeau [00:14:46] do things where you’re not even doing a sandwich needs. In that case, you’re actually taking over title of you wouldn’t be.
Joel Sangerman [00:14:51] Yeah, well, you could do a sandwich lease. If they won’t give you the title that they’ll give you the title, then you actually own it. And that’s why I say that I like that kind of deal because I’m a sandwich lease. Usually your portion of the lease, you’re usually not going to get 30 years. But if you take over that subject to the existing loan, most of the time there’s 25 30 years left on there, which means that you can probably do 10 lease options over the course of time, depending on who you select as your lease option buyer, which means 10 down payments, which means paying the loan down, which means getting monthly spread for a very long time. Which is why I use the metaphor of golden goose laying golden eggs.
Dave Dubeau [00:15:27] All right, very cool. And now if you’re able to find one that’s free and clear, which actually contrary to popular belief, there are quite a few free and clear properties. Oh my god.
Joel Sangerman [00:15:37] Yeah, a tremendous percentage of properties are free. Clear you’ve
Dave Dubeau [00:15:40] got. I’ve heard it’s like a third. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I’m in the states any offer. It is up to a third. Canada, the price of houses are so frickin high. I don’t think it’s not that I.
Joel Sangerman [00:15:50] Yeah, that well, you know, that’s the other thing at this point, even if it’s not free and clear, they could have been over two years ago. And now they’ve got more equity than they have leverage because of the low interest rate, environment has really pushed housing up beyond belief. We’ve made an absolute fortune just through magic, the magic of money printing from the Federal Reserve. So we basically screwed over a whole generation of elderly people. It sickens me what’s happened? Because do you realize that you used to be able to retire? Let’s say somebody wants to make $50000. They could have a million dollars and put it in a five percent CD, with interest rates down at zero. We force retirees. You got to have $10 million in the bank if you’re earning a half a percent interest right
Dave Dubeau [00:16:34] now to make that whopping 50 grand. That’s right. I mean, it’s a game where they get taxed, taxed on it, right?
Joel Sangerman [00:16:42] Precisely. So yeah, I mean, the values of real estate have been pushed up beyond belief, and we’ve got strategies to capitalize on all that. But free and clear properties are phenomenal because obviously you can create tremendous cash flow if you get somebody willing to take just the taxes and insurance as their monthly payment because there’s no loan on it, and you can rent that out for a year or two before you cash them out at a high price. There’s quite a lot of cash flow that you can make on that, and I teach people how to do that all day, every day.
Dave Dubeau [00:17:08] Well, this is fantastic. Cool stuff you’ll always love discussing creative stuff with creative people, it sounds. You’re one of the most creative people I’ve met. So if people want to find out more about you and how you help out, other real estate investors get into these kind of deals, what should they do?
Joel Sangerman [00:17:26] Well, they’ve got two choices. They can go to any of the various sportsbooks around Las Vegas. They’ll find me in there watching the Golden Knights making the playoffs this year, even though I’m more of a Blackhawk fan. So that’s one way that would be the hard way, right? Still got to wear masks. The second way where you could go to my website, which is very simple. Remember, I was joking with you earlier that my website is I buy real estate dot com. One of the one of the best websites you can get. I got that website, obviously, before Al Gore even invented the internet,
Dave Dubeau [00:17:56] but it’s been like 1995. You got that. It was early
Joel Sangerman [00:18:00] on. No doubt about that. So I bought realestate.com.au. Or you can hit me up on my email, Joel, that I buy realestate.com.au. Or you can put any of those links in there. I’m pretty easy to find.
Dave Dubeau [00:18:10] Awesome, Joel. Thank you so much. It’s been a lot of fun.
Joel Sangerman [00:18:13] Pleasure’s all mine. Thank you, Dave.
Dave Dubeau [00:18:15] All right. Take care. We’ll talk to you in the next episode. Very good. Well, hey there. Thanks for tuning into the Property Profits podcast if you like this episode. That’s great. Please go ahead and subscribe on iTunes. Give us a good review. That’d be awesome. I appreciate that. And if you’re looking to attract investors and raise capital for your deals, that may invite you to get a complimentary copy of my newest book Right Back There. There it is the money partner formula. You got a PDF version, an investor attraction book dot com again. Investor Attraction, book dot com. Take care.