Buy Apartment Building, Fix, Rent, Ski, Repeat

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Podcast Transcription

Erwin Szeto [00:00:10] This episode is brought to you by a rock star, Real Estate’s free 90 minute training class, where you can learn that number one real estate investing strategy that has created millions in cash flow for key investors without touching a hammer. What will you learn at the upcoming free class? Well, I’ve been part of Rockstar since 2010, and you’ll be learning the number one strategy that we have implemented in Hamilton St. Catharines in the region to transact on hundreds of investment properties and producing several millionaire clients. This strategy works so well. Our clients success has been noticed, resulting in our real estate team being awarded with Real Estate Agent of the Year in 2015, 2016 and 2017 by multiple publications. So don’t delay, please go to WW W Rock Star Inner Circle dot com slash Erwin. There are only a few seats left and there’s always a waiting list. Again, that’s w WW dot rock star inner circle dot com slash e r w i n. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, investors across greatest country in the world. This is the truth about real estate investing show for Canadians where it is my job to bring you experts in the world of investing. So we learn from their experience so we can learn to duplicate their success and inspire you to take action for a better financial future for yourself and those closest to you. Before we get started, I wanted to thank you, listeners. Thank you for making this little six episode experiment into new and noteworthy podcast on iTunes. Really cool. Thank you for listening. Thank you for the kind words over email and when I’m meeting in person. Thank you for the five star reviews. Please keep them coming. It all helps to motivate me. Do better and more episodes while we’re on the subject of thinking. Thank you. I like to thank you all again for nominating me for the Real Estate Investment Network’s annual awards. New record were up for three awards where we’re finalists in the categories of the Michael Milner Memorial Award for Leadership Real Estate, Agent of the Year and Different Category. Real Estate Professional of the Year. Really cool. When I started in this business, I wanted to be held in the same esteemed as, uh, as accountants and lawyers. And here we are. So thank you again for all the kind words onto this week’s guest. Onto this week’s guests, Kevin Bunzel. Kevin started investing in 2007 with a vacant run down six plex that he purchased with no money down. Now a full time investor, Kevin continues to fix up and rent multifamily properties, as well as flipping single family homes. If you know Kevin, you’ll know he has a passion for learning and sharing knowledge. Hence, he decided to start Lifestyle Housing Radio, a weekly radio show and podcast for real estate investors. Nothing at all. Kevin Bean from Thunder Bay hasn’t always been able to attend all the great real estate events in the GTA, as he started the Lifestyle Housing Summit to make great real estate education available to everyone, no matter where they lived. When he’s not working on a property, Kevin is skiing and coaching at the local ski resort, as well as being the head coach for the lake had Varsity Ski Team. In case you haven’t heard Kevin’s lifestyle hosting radio show, I’m going to play for you. Kevin’s very original radio show introduction. So without further ado, I present to you, Kevin Bunzel.

Kevin Bunzel [00:03:17] It’s lifestyle hosting radio. We’re here to solve their real estate woes right here. Every week on Szeto, you spoke to Nonu and bring a friend or two. There’s a great guest post every week to fill you in on the knowledge you speak. You’ve got a problem you need solve. Send in. Your questions will be resolved. So head up lifestyle host. That’s the voicemail button or type away. And if you’re just not sure about what to do. Just sit right back. We may leave a clue.

Erwin Szeto [00:03:54] Hello, Kevin what’s keeping you busy these days?

Kevin Bunzel [00:03:58] Oh, well, tomorrow I’ll be going skiing for the first time this week, so not so much work wise with the kind of between free trade deals right now to spend the last year picking up a four plex that we did a six figure renovation to stop. Right now, I’m looking for my next project.

Erwin Szeto [00:04:16] All right, fantastic. Before we get into your current deal, can you tell us a bit about yourself like you mentioned, you were going skiing. Whereabouts? Are you going skiing and let the folks know where you live?

Kevin Bunzel [00:04:29] Oh yeah. I was born and raised in Thunder Bay, actually. I grew up as a competitive mogul skier, so I’ve been involved in the skier my whole life and then kind of did that growing up and actually started coaching the freestyle team in town here when I went to university here. When the business school and was doing that and in the summer working for my dad as a contractor, so I’m working for him and kind of in school, I was kind of looking at what I wanted to do when I was done and basically, it’s been on the weekends or something. That was a lot of fun for me and I wanted to keep doing that and kind of always been very entrepreneurial and never really wanted that nine to five job that would tie me down. So kind of that’s how I fell into real estate. Right?

Erwin Szeto [00:05:19] So what kind of construction work did you do? Do everything.

Kevin Bunzel [00:05:25] A little bit of everything, but mostly fencing, fences and decks. There are a lot of that. And then kind of in the winter, it keeps busy with some other jobs and stuff.

Erwin Szeto [00:05:36] Okay, very good. No, it’s interesting because we’ve actually had quite a couple of people on the show who have backgrounds in construction, and that kind of helps them on their one on the renovation side when they take over property or fix things up. And so for folks who don’t know Thunder Bay that, well, what was the school that you attended that was in town?

Kevin Bunzel [00:05:54] Lakehead University, and yes, I would agree that it’s somewhat helpful, but I still feel it sometimes can be a curse because you’re often the one who is stuck doing all the work, and that might not necessarily be the best thing of all the time.

Erwin Szeto [00:06:09] Right, right. You should have listened to the interview I did with Steve. Kerlikowske is done somewhere around six commercial buildings, and they’re all like 20 plus units. So again, here you have the same sort of story. He worked in construction right out of university, and he did a couple of flips. Just like your story. I’m getting ahead of myself, like stealing into your story. But again, he doesn’t have the tools at all anymore. He dresses up quite nice for work now, and he’s having oversight. And I think people really respect him for that. I’m sure people that work with you respect you for that too, especially if you’re trying to provide feedback like, Hey, this wall doesn’t look plum or whatever it is. So tell us a bit about your market. Tell us about Thunder Bay. What? What makes it? Why did you choose Thunder Bay to invest other than it being close to you?

Kevin Bunzel [00:07:02] Well, that was the reason that I first showed that it was about and I lived here all my life and we kind of knew the area and there was no getting started. There was no real deep dove into the lake, the market fundamentals and that kind of thing. I didn’t really, I didn’t really know about that stuff. So it’s basically, yeah, just once in my backyard. So.

Erwin Szeto [00:07:26] Now that you’ve been at it longer or can you talk to the fundamentals, like for someone who doesn’t know the market, why would you say it’s a good place to invest?

Kevin Bunzel [00:07:35] Yeah, so I guess I got lucky with my timing as well, because I got an A. I guess the lowest point of 2007 is was when I graduated and bought my first property. And that was kind of the tail end of it, just very flat. Like my mom bought a house in 1997, sort of in 2008 for less than she paid for it. So it was kind of a flat market for that past decade. And then right after that is when it really started ramping up and kind of everything kind of went crazy. And really, while there were, I wasn’t even where I wanted to buy stuff. But everything I looked at, I’m like, No, that’s too expensive, too expensive until I finally like, Okay, and the rents are going up to its it actually makes sense, but. Yeah, it was it’s been really increasing, and then even within the last few years now it’s been under me. They’re getting a lot of notice from Canadian real estate wealth magazine Home and Garden of Eden just came up with some articles of owning stock in some great investment targets. Hmm.

Erwin Szeto [00:08:43] So what’s been the driver for the growth of growth?

Kevin Bunzel [00:08:49] And a lot of people think about growth as a population, and all these foreclosures before is like lots of people move in and then the prices go up. And the truth is that the population hasn’t grown at all. And actually, the 2016 census showed 25 more people than the 2011 2013. And I don’t know how they get there, their numbers, so exactly. But that was what they came up with. So it certainly hasn’t been population growth, but there definitely has been a shift in kind of the type of jobs available, I think, under management. Traditionally, this kind of blue-collar people working in town and within the last decade, it’s really been shifting toward the more of a technical technology type piece businesses and different stuff like that, like the university actually opened a medical school and a law school recently as well. So I think there is some better jobs coming in. And then also the cost, I mean, it’s still one of the most affordable housing markets in Canada. But really, it’s I mean, even though the prices have been increasing, it’s still very affordable based on people’s incomes. Still buy houses for a relatively cheap amount

Erwin Szeto [00:10:10] and think about how much can you buy a house for?

Kevin Bunzel [00:10:15] Well, I paid less than $40000 for houses, but I mean, know minor wrecks. But I mean, you can get a nice house in the lower and lower neighborhoods for like low 100s, but they go up, leaving the average of the average sale price is around 225, I think.

Erwin Szeto [00:10:38] Well, that’s up to twenty five. That’s like Hamilton five years ago, six years ago and a fun story for I think that’s fun to share. Speaking to an investor yesterday who just bought a piece of land in Toronto, the dimensions of the lot are twenty five by 140. The house is worthless. Guess what? He paid for it.

Kevin Bunzel [00:11:05] 225 million for over 1.6 million.

Erwin Szeto [00:11:10] And this is a fun part, he plans on putting four townhouses on it again, the frontage is 25 feet, 140 feet. You want to put four townhouses on it. This will be very interesting to see happen if he can, if he can indeed have it nap and he doesn’t have approval yet, either. He doesn’t. He hasn’t closed yet, but he’s got a firm deal. So, yeah, big disparity between Thunder Bay in Toronto.

Kevin Bunzel [00:11:38] He can’t build the townhouses; he can just sell it for two million next year. Yes.

Erwin Szeto [00:11:43] Yeah, potentially. Potentially.

Kevin Bunzel [00:11:46] You know,

Erwin Szeto [00:11:46] so that house for 225, what can you rent it for? If you happen to know,

Kevin Bunzel [00:11:53] see a single-family homes like that? Maybe like fifteen hundred or so?

Erwin Szeto [00:11:59] Wow, that’s pretty good.

Kevin Bunzel [00:12:02] Yeah. And I know I’ve even been looking at other markets myself, like as they’ve been expanding on, like, Hey, maybe I should think about buying houses in other areas and Winnipeg because I had a family down there. I go down there a lot and really like the rent amount is virtually the same between here in Winnipeg, but the houses are just like about 50 percent more expensive to buy. So it’s it doesn’t really make sense from a cash flow perspective for me. Great. Great.

Erwin Szeto [00:12:30] So let’s take it. Take us back to the start of your real estate career. What kind of properties were you doing? What was the strategy? How long ago? Just talk us through like your first property, for example.

Kevin Bunzel [00:12:45] Yeah. My first one was in 2007, and it was a vacant rundown six place, and I don’t tell too many people how much they paid for it. It was $60000 10 grand a unit. Believe that,

Erwin Szeto [00:13:04] for me, 10 grand a unit,

Kevin Bunzel [00:13:07] that’s pretty good, but that was

Erwin Szeto [00:13:11] 10 grand a unit. Sorry, go on.

Kevin Bunzel [00:13:16] I don’t know. So certainly, I think worth more than that now, and I’ve certainly put a lot of work into that. But I mean, like that was a and that was a building that was on the MLS and kind of had been sitting there for a while and no one really wanted it. So I just kind of was like, Oh, you know, this could work for me, and I made a lowball offer and it didn’t happen. And then I basically moved in there and just started to work on the units and rent them one by one. And yeah, I still I still own that property today, and some believe it brings in like over 4000 a month and rents.

Erwin Szeto [00:13:59] You know, 60 grand for it. And then what did you what would you say the renovations were worth?

Kevin Bunzel [00:14:05] Well, I’ve been I’ve been doing that kind of doing that one has been like a multi-year project. I mean, I spent probably six or seven years really renovating that, but I don’t know over six figures for sure. Mm-Hmm. Well. But that was a lot of a lot of my own time went into that first project was with me doing the work myself evenings, weekends and over the wintertime and my dad helping me a lot and stuff. I didn’t pay any contractors or employees for that. For the most part,

Erwin Szeto [00:14:40] but it still cost you about six figures and materials.

Kevin Bunzel [00:14:44] Yeah, I’m probably I’m probably overall or if you counsel my time and I certainly count my time now when I go back and material cost. But I mean, not what I haven’t really added. What do you have into it?

Erwin Szeto [00:14:56] Right. So, so since then, how many properties have you executed on?

Kevin Bunzel [00:15:03] Since my next one was 2010, I bought a duplex that had been gutted by fire. So they’re basically a shell that we bought and then basically fixed that up, refinanced it, rented that out and then let’s see another duplex, a four Plex and a seven plex that I did the same thing renovation and rent out and through four flips they’ve done in the last two or three years

Erwin Szeto [00:15:41] where the Philips multifamily as well a really single family or

Kevin Bunzel [00:15:44] the fixer single family.

Erwin Szeto [00:15:50] So let’s talk about the flipping just quickly, flipping seems to be such a hot topic. What was your strategy for flip flopping like? What kind of property were you targeting? Price point? What kind of finishes did you install and then what did you exit for?

Kevin Bunzel [00:16:09] Yes, so three years ago was when I kind of gave up the actual job part and decided I would do real estate full time, so flipping was kind of a way to make some, make some money now and make some money that I could use to invest in my buy imports. But I don’t really care for flippin. It’s I feel like it’s kind of transactional and you know, you have to be to work like I love with the idea of the wealth building. That’s the long term buy and hold provides,

Erwin Szeto [00:16:40] especially with the yeah. So where the market’s gone?

Kevin Bunzel [00:16:44] Yeah. So I mean, the flipping the I have bought a few houses in the kind of the rougher area of town and not because I particularly like that, but it seems to be a lot of rundown houses there, and a few of them were kind of in the 35 to 40000 when I paid for them and put maybe like 40 to 60000 into them. And then he sold for one twentieth then.

Erwin Szeto [00:17:16] Right? Sorry. So you’re making like twenty five grand or so on a flip?

Kevin Bunzel [00:17:23] Um, well, some did not so well, up to 20000, I guess, but a few of them were not as profitable. I mean, I’ve had some that it just broke even or. You know, one I actually just flipped to another investor, actually it was this this. This house was just full of like cat and dog feces, there is actually a dead cat in the house and it’s just absolutely disgusting, but we kind of tore out all the carpeting and did a few dumb friends. And then I had actually found a the seven plexi own. I found that the owner decided that I wanted to buy that instead and ended up selling it to another investor. So only made like as much as my lawyer did on that deal. But hurry.

Erwin Szeto [00:18:15] So before we move off of flipping any lessons. They can share with our listeners.

Kevin Bunzel [00:18:24] Yeah, I guess the biggest thing is just knowing, knowing your knowing upfront, I guess what you’re going to your exit plan, what you’re going to sell it for kind of having that realistic after market value, even being conservative with it. And then you really need a good understanding of your construction costs and timelines and factoring in all the holding costs and everything. And yeah, I mean, that’s where my construction experience helps because I can really say, okay, this is how long it’s gonna take. And this is what it’s going to cost them. And I know that right. So someone with that would probably need a good contractor on their team who could do that but give those costs before you go in and make your offer on the property. Right?

Erwin Szeto [00:19:09] And it still didn’t go perfect for you, even though you knew what the costs would be.

Kevin Bunzel [00:19:14] Yeah, I mean, there’s always in. Sometimes you never know. I mean, I’m a deal. I just did. We bought it and I was cutting a few holes in the walls for some wired of Iran and realized there was no insulation in the entire place. So we ended up kind of basically gutting the whole thing to re-inflate everything. And then on the drive, the walls got hit once that wasn’t really factored in, but we’re going to plan to hold this property for a long time. That’s going to be worth it in the long run,

Erwin Szeto [00:19:43] right in the market you’re in. So people and I live in, I do most of our business in Hamilton and we’re in the Golden Horseshoe where people are. Lots of people are trying to flip, but it’s a rising market which provides a lot of assured you and flipping. What kind of market were you in when you’re flipping was a flat? Was it going up, just going down?

Kevin Bunzel [00:20:10] Yeah, this is going up. It’s been going up steadily since 2007. I think HGTV just said that it was it’s been an eight percent annual appreciation over the last five years. Right. Each year, yeah.

Erwin Szeto [00:20:29] All right. Yeah, that sounds much healthier than the 20 plus that we’re seeing in the Golden Horseshoe.

Kevin Bunzel [00:20:37] Yeah. I mean, what goes up must come down. So I feel like we’re we have a lot more stable. So I mean, you’re not going to get those huge rises, but at the same time, if everything crashes, you’re not going to get the huge, huge downside as well. So I think it’s a lot more, a lot more stable that we do.

Erwin Szeto [00:20:56] Yeah, it’s quite a world that we’re in with the Toronto and surrounding area market, like no one really knows what it’s going to look like when the. And for the record, there is going to be a correction and we just don’t know when. But this is such a different market than 1989, the last major correction. Chinese money low interest rates, part of the 89 crash, was caused by unemployment. We don’t really have that many jobs, the number of jobs, especially manufacturing that we can lose, so it’ll be interesting to see where we’re going to live through history.

Kevin Bunzel [00:21:36] Yeah. Well, one of the things I love about my strategy is that I have like because of the condition of the buildings. I put a lot of a lot of that sweat equity in, yeah, have a lot of equity in the places. And then I mean, they’re very strong cash falling property you. So at the end of the day, kind of what it’s worth on a day to day basis isn’t really important to me, really. I mean, it is in the future when I plan to sell. But if it’s worth 300000 or 200000, as long as I’m paying the bills and putting some money in my pocket, it, it’s enough.

Erwin Szeto [00:22:09] Mm hmm. Well, you actually when you bought your first building in 2007, but did you have done you have much trouble renting the building because you actually went through the credit crisis, which was our most recent recession? Do you recall?

Kevin Bunzel [00:22:28] No, I have been there was it was a. And I mean, it wasn’t even in great condition. I mean, the hallway was still being worked on and stuff after those first few units were done. And I seem to rent them out, and I’m not sure if I had it pretty straight at the time or what. But I mean, it’s in a great location here. It’s funny because all my rentals are on the other side of town. The of the of the flicks that I did, I flip through one neighborhood on. My rentals are on another neighborhood that’s kind of in the downtown area, near the law school and kind of where everything’s happening here. So. Right?

Erwin Szeto [00:23:05] And then what is your tenant profile that you’re renting to?

Kevin Bunzel [00:23:11] Usually, like students, young professionals, it’s kind of the people that want to be close to the action in our downtown area, and I haven’t bought the property, I just bought it like across the street from the law school. I have a law student from there and.

Erwin Szeto [00:23:30] Very good. Now it’s going to get into your radio show. How did that all start and how long you been doing it?

Kevin Bunzel [00:23:40] That has been about a year and a half, it was August guess this August will be two years, 80 some episodes now. And yeah, I guess really, when I when I did it, it kind of take real estate as a full time venture. I started to spend a. More time trying to kind of answer. I’ve always been really interested in learning and reading books and that kind of thing, but when I when I did go full time, it was it was more serious, you know, investing in courses going to and I traveled down to southern Ontario for a couple seminars and joined a mastermind group. And really, that kind of. Connecting with other people with what they mean was a huge, huge thing for kind of what I learned and what I was able to do so. Yeah, basically with the radio show, I just wanted to continue to do that. I mean, Thunder Bay is kind of isolated. We don’t have we never had a real estate investing club until I started my own here. And we don’t get kind of the big seminars and stuff down here. So I wanted to kind of start that as a way to have, you know, for one, connect with those types of people and certainly learn some new things. I learned a ton and then also kind of share what I know other people who are going through the same thing. So it’s kind of a Win-Win.

Erwin Szeto [00:25:17] And so you have like a proper radio show was what’s the name of your of the show and where can people find it?

Kevin Bunzel [00:25:24] It’s lifestyle hosting radio, and it airs every Monday on the radio, the campus and community radio station here in Thunder Bay. And I’m also on iTunes and also on their website. They’re opposed to their lifestyle. I see that.

Erwin Szeto [00:25:43] Fantastic. And you started a real estate club. How many people come to your real estate, your club meetings?

Kevin Bunzel [00:25:53] Between zero and 12,

Erwin Szeto [00:25:57] depending on how much snow there is.

Kevin Bunzel [00:25:59] Yeah, actually it was it was kind of a summer where it kind of petered out and now people are interested. And then now we’re kind of getting a few more people out and stuff. But just funny because at first, they thought it would just be me kind of talking to a bunch of beginners and stuff. But really, the people would come out. I find her though, the people who have the 40, 50, 60 units and I find it serious investors that are coming out, I guess they see the value and in making those connections and discussing what they’re doing, really. That was interesting to me.

Erwin Szeto [00:26:33] So you’re having like a legit mastermind then?

Kevin Bunzel [00:26:36] Yeah. And I mean, I mean, I just call a meeting every month and it’s like one or two people come out and we just, you know, sit around the table and really just chat about, you know, it’s not it’s maybe not a structure that way, but we still can chat about the problems we’re facing and what we’re seeing in the market. So it’s been really interesting. And yeah, I didn’t really know anyone who was doing this before. I mean, I have one friend who has a couple of properties, but I will not know anyone in my market who was kind of going through these things and stuff. So making those connections has been definitely different groups, right?

Erwin Szeto [00:27:15] And probably you probably can’t put a number on the value of these meetings have been, can you?

Kevin Bunzel [00:27:23] No, I mean, no, it’s. It’s just it’s just fun to do so, I mean, even if even if the number is zero, I mean, the reason being of cool people in, is that right?

Erwin Szeto [00:27:38] And I encourage all of the listeners to spend more time, among other investors, as this gets contagious, like birds of a feather the bird. You know what I’m saying, like attracts like. And when you get together people to inspire each other and you become more than the sum of your parts? That’s really cool. And where can people learn about more about your Thunder Bay investing club?

Kevin Bunzel [00:28:06] I had a website, TV area, club dot com, and we have an updated since they started it. That’s where it says I’m excited to start this club on there and that was a year ago, but there is a sign up from there. If anyone in the Thunder Bay Area, they can find out about the meetings and that

Erwin Szeto [00:28:30] in fact, they’ve even thought, you know, some people come up from Toronto to get there and how long to drive or fly from Toronto

Kevin Bunzel [00:28:38] Local Park. It is about 16 hour drive and incentivize the place on here and for me, like an hour and a half playing, but. Plus, dealing with the airports, I guess, but

Erwin Szeto [00:28:56] at least you’re flying local, it’s not like you’re flying to the states. So education wise, you’ve mentioned you attended some courses in southern Ontario. So what other than we’ve already discussed, like what has helped you along the way, education wise, like networking wise outside your own networking group? Did anything help you when you went to visit in southern Ontario? Anything you’d recommend.

Kevin Bunzel [00:29:27] Yeah, well, last year, I was at the. Thanks, the investor forum. And I didn’t make this year when I heard that you want to talk to you again for translation.

Erwin Szeto [00:29:40] Thank you. Thank you.

Kevin Bunzel [00:29:42] No, no. And I guess last year I was nominated for a top investor as well. So they came in to check that out and it was kind of cool. And that was the I mean; I had gone to the other ones before. And what I found was, it’s kind of it’s kind of the same people that come to these things. Read, I didn’t realize that it’s such a small community of investors. And so I mean, I guess that’s another benefit of going to those is you really can get to know the people who are actually doing something in the space.

Erwin Szeto [00:30:12] Yeah, no. I totally agree because it was a chance for me to reconnect with love, like my social media friends who don’t get to see at all, really, just because there’s a lot of geography between us. And it’s kind of like the one once a year event that we all get to come together and hang out. Yeah, it’s, you know, I enjoy investor form. There’s like hundreds of other people that I didn’t know and you probably hadn’t seen before. But yeah, there’s probably 20, 30 people that that that we all know each other from for mutual friends and social media. Now tell us about the lifestyle hosting summit.

Kevin Bunzel [00:30:54] So at least someone is a virtual real estate investing conference. That’s just kind of wrapped up with. And that was kind of just another way to enhance kind of the radio show that I do. And that experience and I mean, those are great, but I mean, because I’m on the radio, I’m limited to the 28 minutes that I have. So all my shows are that length. And then kind of obviously it’s audio only. So the summit is a very obvious presentation, so actually invited the past guests that I had on my radio show to come on and give video presentations throughout the weeks or throughout the week. There was 20 different presentations, and we also went to live Q&A calls and I wasn’t sure how they work. But it was. It was really great, actually. And one two people signed up. He’s got some great feedback from it. So that is people can check that out. Still, that lifestyle has seen some income.

Erwin Szeto [00:32:02] Awesome. Now, can you explain why you put this together? Because I think it’s a pretty cool story and I’d like you to share it.

Kevin Bunzel [00:32:11] Yeah. Well, I guess like I was saying earlier, I mean, I’ve been in Thunder Bay where we’re fairly isolated. We’re not like a short drive to the or, I guess, all the details of the short drive. But I mean, you can all go to those seminars and there’s meet ups for those people, but we don’t really get those experts. And I know there’s a lot of smaller communities. I mean, all over the country who kind of don’t get that experience. I mean, really, it’s probably Toronto, maybe Calgary and Vancouver that kind of gets to experience that. And even within those ones, I mean, the Toronto people are we stay there and the people at West are out there. So it’s a way to kind of putting it online, kind of and bring everyone together and have everyone kind of learn from everyone and do it on their own time, really, where you’re not having to give up a weekend, you can kind of through for videos that you can watch anytime you want, really?

Erwin Szeto [00:33:08] Right, right. And I for maybe like the newer investors who don’t know strategies work across markets like, for example, like you talking about flipping like that market, that strategy can work across markets. Multifamily investing strategy can work across different markets. As many things, it doesn’t matter which city you are necessarily, but like your strategy of like knowing construction, fixing stuff up and renting it for higher values. But that strategy works very well in different markets. You set up your market how to apply specifically, but there’s good value in learning strategies, and I believe you had several content experts on different strategies. And yeah, and that’s where one of them you.

Kevin Bunzel [00:34:00] So the presentation was all the bruising talked about kind of multifamily economics, and he was speaking about kind of the GTA area, kind of the economics around that, but really what he was talking about was market fundamentals and, you know, whether he was talking about immigration or jobs or whatever those needs can apply to any market for long, if you know what those are. You might have to do different research for your market, but you’re not going to play anywhere, right?

Erwin Szeto [00:34:27] I mean, we were talking about multifamily analytics and stuff. Do you know what the market cap? What is? What is the cap rate? Sorry, what is the cap rate for Thunder Bay for an apartment building

Kevin Bunzel [00:34:40] for, let’s say, just finished actually just got appraised a few months ago at the 720 cap

Erwin Szeto [00:34:47] 7.8. Yeah, that’d be higher. That’s not bad. I haven’t seen a seven cap in seven years.

Kevin Bunzel [00:34:57] Yeah. So I mean, yeah, well, that’s a conservative

Erwin Szeto [00:35:01] seven cap, seven point eighty cap to institute appraisal. It’s not like what sellers are saying. They’re cap rate is four. For folks who aren’t as familiar with apartment building investing, you can appreciate that sellers will tend to over inflate their numbers and to make their properties appear more valuable on paper.

Kevin Bunzel [00:35:31] Yeah, great

Erwin Szeto [00:35:34] versus you’re talking about, you had a proper appraisal done so professional independent representing the banks. So it’s very much more conservative.

Kevin Bunzel [00:35:45] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a lot of I mean, even reporters, when they’re listing property, they don’t include the management expense for your repairs and maintenance or even a vacancy allowance, stuff like that. But they’re really correct.

Erwin Szeto [00:35:58] Yeah, because see, they’re self-managing, so they don’t apply cost to it. So you started, you started very young. You started right at of school. So what advice would you give to investors who are just starting out?

Kevin Bunzel [00:36:13] Well, I think ultimately it comes down to just pulling the trigger and making it happen, but I mean, you’ve got to you have to educate yourself and I guess figure out what your goals are. Know what you’re ultimately trying to accomplish and kind of learn about those strategies. We talked about the importance of learning and networking, but I’ve met people that have. Get stuck in this learning and learning and learning and learning and never actually do, there comes a point where you actually have to go out and make something happen. So I mean, you can do. You can always learn forever, but eventually you know enough that you have to just go out and make it happen, right?

Erwin Szeto [00:36:54] Like for anyone who signs up for Lice Lifestyle Housing Summit, they can go end. And through all that material, it’s like you should cut people off. After a certain point, they go buy something.

Kevin Bunzel [00:37:09] Yeah. You know, and once you’ve done your deal and you got back to the rest of the year,

Erwin Szeto [00:37:14] yeah, you can come learn more. Because I’ve seen it enough and like the average client I work with as well over 40 and they’re buying their first property, then they’re not. What were you like? Twenty two when you bought your first 20?

Kevin Bunzel [00:37:27] I was 22. Yeah. And it’s yeah, I mean, I’m so glad that I didn’t waste because I know now that property for 10 years. I know the value of having that mortgage paid down and the rents have gone up. And I mean, that property is great compared to what when I bought two years ago, right? But I know that one’s going to be there in 10 years, and I know like, they’re both going to be my retirement, basically a real figure to. So time certainly helps. And if you can buy it, I think the fear that’s on your side, right?

Erwin Szeto [00:38:07] So the Lifestyle Housing Summit, if people want to like, what can people do like log in like is there a fee to is there like a membership? How long do they have access to it? Can we some details on that for people who are interested in learning more about it?

Kevin Bunzel [00:38:24] Yeah. After it started on February 27th and it was for five days and for the people who signed up during the last five days or before then, they got free access for four at the time, the day that the presentations came out and it was four or five out each day and they sent them for free to everyone. And then what I was doing was selling an all access pass where people can pay for the lifetime access to the videos, as well as some bonuses and stuff for. Right. That is still available and you if you sign up and you’re obviously getting notified about. I plan to do it next year and in future years. I guess when doing the radio show, I’ll try and put this together. So.

Erwin Szeto [00:39:13] So can folks log in today and join the membership or whatever and view the recordings?

Kevin Bunzel [00:39:20] Yes, if you go if you sign up at lifestyles and some income, you know. You’ll be directed to the page that. That’ll take your information, you can sign up right there and get logged in. And now there’s 14 hours of presentations and two life Tuesdays and all that stuff there.

Erwin Szeto [00:39:42] Very cool. And how much does that cost?

Kevin Bunzel [00:39:45] Now it is $99. So I them. I had it I had it lower for the early birds and the people that were on the call.

Erwin Szeto [00:39:58] Right. That’s tremendous value considering how much it costs for a lot of events to go to.

Kevin Bunzel [00:40:04] Yeah. Compared to like a weekend seminar and stuff and you see if the travel rate. But yeah,

Erwin Szeto [00:40:09] yeah, like my hotel room fee costs more than that.

Kevin Bunzel [00:40:14] Yeah. Yeah, that’s the thing. I mean, for and for me, like being where I’m from. Every, every event is a plane ride and a hotel. And you know, it’s a $500 weekend without the ticket, never mind so me.

Erwin Szeto [00:40:30] And just so we’re clear, this is a full time gig for your real estate investing and then recreational skiing.

Kevin Bunzel [00:40:38] Yeah, I still coach the freestyle team on the weekends and we’re doing a Mercury camp right now. And I mean, that’s not a lot of hours. But yeah, the real estate investing is most of my time and.

Erwin Szeto [00:40:54] So can you quantify that, how many hours a week is your real estate investing, I guess. I guess it varies, ebbs and flows. So actually, maybe go through that like when you’re when you tell me, what is your typical week involved for the matter of actual work related to the real estate business?

Kevin Bunzel [00:41:12] It’s been involving, I mean, right when I quit, I, I bought a house that the first house that I was going to flip that was written on my room when I decided I wasn’t going to do my job anymore. I. I bought a house and went in there with the hammer and started doing all the work and hired one helper. You kind of, you know, spent long days fixing it up and then. Lately, I’ve been trying to more build a team and get some guys who can do that, and now I have reliable markers that I can count on. So I mean, that makes a huge difference. Really, now there’s a lot less than I could do, and I still like to keep busy and be involved. But I want to spend more of my time kind of finding and finding money partners and finding deals and that kind of thing that can actually grow my business rather than doing the actual labor and stuff. But I still manage all my units and actually just got one to one of the guys that works for me. I just got him involved in taking over. A lot of the management has to do as another way of just kind of, you know, I can still be involved. They still want to do all the screening, the applications and that kind of stuff. Knowing who is in my properties. But, you know, if there’s a problem with anything, they’re going to call him. And if they don’t pay the rent, he’s made of steel with that stuff. So I mean, it’s been coming a long way to try to remove myself from as much as I can, and I feel like that’s the only way I can grow to where I want to be. Mm-Hmm.

Erwin Szeto [00:42:51] You mentioned having reliable contractors. Can you elaborate? Like, where did you find them and how do you like? How do you maintain those relationships? This is I’m asking, because I find this is a weakness among many investors.

Kevin Bunzel [00:43:08] Yes. And I mean, like when I when I first started hiring helpers me, my thought was all, I’ll get the cheapest help. Yeah, you have got to do that through the stages. But I got the minimum wage guy and I had to be there to hold their hand. And that was that was actually good for me at the time because as someone who is self-employed, you don’t have the accountability of having that timecard that you have to punch, right? So it’s easy for me to go, Oh, I get all the sleep in there or I’ll get to it this afternoon. But you know, so I hired a guy who I would say, you have to be at work at 9:00, and then I had to be there at 9:30. So it was kind of good for me that way. But yeah, you get not some great results with kind of those types of people. So more lately, I’ve been paid a lot more for people and kind of. You know, doing the screening on my employees as well. The same thing you do with your parents calling their home their past employers and checking up on them and stuff and meeting with them and getting references and stuff. And then I mean, yeah, you I mean, you don’t always get good people. They still had people that have stolen tools from me and whatever. Don’t show up, but eventually you get rid of those people and they keep the good ones around. I mean. And the one guy that has been working for me for over a year now and really likes it, really likes it for some reason. I mean, but I’m pretty easy going in and he can set his own hours and do his own stuff if you want. I’m pretty and I can trust him to show up and get the job done for be released.

Erwin Szeto [00:44:54] And then when you do have the good ones, how do you how do you keep them happy?

Kevin Bunzel [00:45:00] Well, you’d have to ask him why he why he likes it so much, I guess. I guess I got a super hard ask. Like I said, I mean, I’m pretty flexible as long as long as I find they’re showing up and doing the work. And I don’t mind if they, you know, take Fridays off or whatever. But, you know, I have certain expectation that those are met then then it can be beneficial.

Erwin Szeto [00:45:28] Right. And I think our styles are pretty similar where I see certain investors who I find to be micro managers, they tend to fail in this area. So in you sound like you’re the opposite of that. So our next question this one, I’ll ask questions. How has real estate affected your life? As in they found security, independence, freedom? What does it mean to you?

Kevin Bunzel [00:46:00] Yeah, I guess I mean, it is my life, really, it’s everything I do for my day to day in government, but not only that, more importantly, I guess the financial security for the future. I mean, when I’m building for the future and I mean, my life’s not defined by my net worth and the things they have, really, I don’t I mean, it’s nice to feel secure and that, you know, I can provide for my kids and stuff like that. But I was just telling someone the other day like, you know, if all my all my net worth went to zero really wouldn’t matter to me that much, I mean, I wouldn’t be too concerned by it. What’s important is kind of the skills they’ve built over the years and some of the stuff they learned, the people they met, the skills they learned, and they know that if that happens for whatever reason, they can go through it again. And many build up another portfolio or, you know, whatever. So hmm. I guess the knowledge that that I mean, they could do that if I need to. It’s the most important thing, right?

Erwin Szeto [00:47:07] Well, you seem to provide you quite a bit of freedom, like how many hours a week are you skiing or coaching skiing?

Kevin Bunzel [00:47:15] Oh yeah. I mean, I have been known to go on a few month long trips and stuff like that. Not so recently, actually. Like, I’ve always been telling myself, like after this deal, I’ll take some time off after this deal came, come up. But it seems that I have and that usually the next one lined up and stuff. But. Right now, I don’t have any deals on the golf. I have a few tricks planned and stuff like that. And really, I don’t necessarily need to be doing deals. I mean, my cash flow is strong and, in my living, expenses are low enough that I can just kind of live off my rental income. Basically, the portfolio growth is just to increase that, that standard of living. Right. And I think that’s been huge part of my success has kind of just, I guess. And even like I started out at university. So, you know, I can live in that bachelor pad of the six plex and golf swing a hammer at nights and weekends and kind of build up the wealth that Erwin. I think it’s a different, totally different mindset compared to most people who, you know, buy the best things on their credit cards and then try and figure out how they’re going to pay it off. Yes, like the Oracle said, it’s like build that, build that asset base, get the money flowing in and then kind of go out and buy the luxuries afterwards. Mm hmm.

Erwin Szeto [00:48:44] Yeah, I have some clients that they say they want to quit their job and then I tell them it’s possible. Usually you have to scale down your living. And then I remember one client saying, No, no, no, I want to maintain everything, including my 1.5 million dollar house, my $15000 a month lifestyle, and be able to retire with my real estate income. Imagine how big your portfolio to be to support all that.

Kevin Bunzel [00:49:15] Well, what’s nice about doing it full time is. I mean, I was able to do a lot more deals and grow and grow a lot faster. Having all that time to spend on a great depends without a job. I guess you don’t have necessarily the income or the financial capability to qualify for the mortgages and stuff like that as well. Those are things you have to overcome. Mm-Hmm.

Erwin Szeto [00:49:37] So you’re a ski buff and this is a Canadian real estate show. Where have you been and what do you recommend?

Kevin Bunzel [00:49:47] I’ve been all over, but if I have the choice, I’m going out west and looking for powder.

Erwin Szeto [00:49:53] Does that Whistler?

Kevin Bunzel [00:49:58] I really. Whistler’s OK, a little too busy A.C. for me, I enjoy like Whitewater and Red Mountain or a few of the kind of lesser known places that I really like.

Erwin Szeto [00:50:13] What kind of what was that like? So, so like regular chair lifts and stuff, are you doing like cats and heli skiing or.

Kevin Bunzel [00:50:23] Yeah, well, Whitewater has some pretty old trails anyway, they bought Lake Whistler’s old ones or something, and they’re the only triple ones, but I mean, they are some retrain there and Red Mountain, and they recently went through an upgrade. So there are some good things, but I actually spend more time on this on the old rickety part where they’re not. A lot of people go and they get into the trees and it’s amazing

Erwin Szeto [00:50:49] trees and skiing and aren’t supposed to go together.

Kevin Bunzel [00:50:57] They are so good they often stay off the green track and then you’re good again.

Erwin Szeto [00:51:05] This is Kevin’s advice. This is not my advice.

Kevin Bunzel [00:51:11] And I guess that can apply to the real estate investing too. Because I mean, the regular advice is to kind of diversify your portfolio or kind of do all these by mutual funds. That’s the that’s the grim track of the financial advice. And I don’t know if you’re certainly not going to build a portfolio. You can live off very quickly with expensive mutual funds and stuff like that.

Erwin Szeto [00:51:40] We won’t go down that path because if we can go down that path forever, it’s good. Just like quickly, though, it’s whoever’s telling you to buy mutual funds is because they’re making money off selling your mutual funds. So that’s why they think it’s a great investment. Can you think of anyone who is not selling mutual funds? I think it’s a great investment.

Kevin Bunzel [00:52:04] Yeah, I don’t know.

Erwin Szeto [00:52:08] And Kevin, are you are you open to accepting capital? Are you looking for partners on these properties or are you are you at all on your own?

Kevin Bunzel [00:52:15] I have started working, actually. Most of my deals have been with that partners, so I like private money lenders who lenders the set interest rate. And more recently, I’ve been doing your typical kind of crazy sort of your typical, you know, with the kind of the construction component added to it. I can tell you about the last one I did. If you it was kind of sure. But yeah, so we bought this for Plex. It was one hundred and fifteen thousand kind of vacant rundown for Plex. And I guess. I had a money partner who put up who bought them, bought the property and put in some of the renovation funds, and I came in with my team and we spent $130000 on the renovations. And that included my time. I can’t count everything now. Mm-Hmm. And all the renovations and stuff. And then we just appraised that at three hundred and twenty eight thousand. So we got the mortgage was to 264, are basically my investment partner, got all their money back. I don’t know. I made some good money and then we made our own. It’s 50 50 and cash flow about a thousand dollars a month, so.

Erwin Szeto [00:53:42] Hmm. So for all those investors, I was just at our networking thing yesterday and everyone’s complaining how they can’t find cash flow. So they obviously aren’t investing in Thunder Bay, don’t you?

Kevin Bunzel [00:53:58] Yeah, that’s $2000. After paying back the new mortgage rate at 80 percent loan to value.

Erwin Szeto [00:54:05] Wow, that’s fantastic. For anyone who wants to reach out to you, how can they find you? Snapchat, Instagram, Twitter.

Kevin Bunzel [00:54:13] I’m not huge on the social media, but I do have a Facebook account. But I guess,

Erwin Szeto [00:54:20] do you use it as a

Kevin Bunzel [00:54:21] lifestyle or a yeah, it’s been user more and more. But lifestyle hosting dossier as a contact form and my emails cabinet, lifestyle hosting dossier and I actually have a voicemail on there. So if you want to, you can go to the website and leave a voicemail or ask real estate investing question, and I can answer it on the radio show or get one of my guests to do that. It’s pretty cool.

Erwin Szeto [00:54:44] That’s very cool. That’s very cool, Kevin. This has been amazing. I don’t know if I’d ever find anyone else to speak about Thunder Bay and see my audience. So thank you very much for coming on the show and giving up some valuable time. I know you’d rather be on the slopes than spending a Thursday night talking to me.

Kevin Bunzel [00:55:05] Oh, it’s a pleasure. Thank you. And it’s great to talk about real estate and hopefully people are going to get some value from it.

Erwin Szeto [00:55:15] All right, thank you. And Kevin, I’ll talk to you soon. No, I.

Erwin Szeto [00:55:28] I want to thank you for you, Kevin, for listening to the show. Kim has put together a special offer for you when you sign up at Lifestyle slash offer, you will get Kevin’s e-book, The Ultimate Tenant Screening Guide. A few of the presentations from the Lifestyle Housing Summit and also 20 percent off the Lifestyle Housing Summit all access pass. Again, the URL is lifestyle slash offer. Before you go, if you were like other investors, you enjoy hanging out with likeminded people. But where do you go? When I started out, it felt lonely being a real estate investor because my friends, coworkers and family were not much help. And what they had to share was often

Erwin Szeto [00:56:10] negatives, such as You’ll be a slumlord, or they estimate questions like Why does the bubble burst?

Erwin Szeto [00:56:17] So I went to meet us but stopped soon after as attendees didn’t take things seriously enough or lack experience to share. It was like the blind leading the blind. Later, I started these monthly networking meetings in Oakville, Ontario, called the Mr. Hamilton Inner Circle, where we have an incredible guest speakers. Like the ones on this podcast, I share the latest economic fundamentals that apply to our investing and best practice lessons you can only learn from being an investor. If you want to be a real estate insider, these meetings are for you. So if you want to come, learn and share, go to you. W dot Mr. Hamilton Dossier Slash Inner Circle Register soon as I kid you not. We have a wait list each month for these meetings. Thank you for listening and I hope to meet you, sir.

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