Table of Contents - Closing Every Closable Deal with John Martinez
Dave Debeau [00:00:09] And everyone, this is Dave Debeau. Welcome to another episode of the Property Profits Real Estate podcast today. It's my pleasure to be interviewing John Martinez. And John is a very, very interesting fellow, because not only is he a real estate entrepreneur, not only does he have experience in real estate investing, but he's also a sales expert now. Why is this important? This is important because I have found over the years that most of us as real estate entrepreneurs, especially mom and pop real estate entrepreneurs, are typically coming into this from a different profession. Quite often a lot of people have a nine to five type job when they get into the real estate investing. They aren't all that good at the sales aspect of things. So, John, I'm really looking forward to chatting with you about this, because you've been training people about this, real estate entrepreneurs about this for years. You've trained hundreds of them in all sorts of great stuff about this. You you've helped people really kick up their game when it comes to the whole sales conversation. So welcome to the show.
John Martinez [00:01:10] Yeah, really happy to be here. Excited to be on.
Dave Debeau [00:01:13] All right. Perfect. So before we jump into the whole sales side of things, which will be the main focus today, tell us a little bit about your background and your experience when it comes to actually investing in real estate.
John Martinez [00:01:24] Yes. So probably different than a lot of people you have on the show. So my background is really corporate America. Nine to five type thing started in my late teens, early twenties and all commission sales kind of worked up through bigger and bigger companies, tech companies and infrastructure companies, things like that, and ended up in a variety of pretty high level sales and marketing, VP positions, director positions. And now, about six years ago, I opened up my own business and just focused on the one piece that I liked most, which was sales training. The way real estate investing fits into my story is I've never actually been a quote unquote real estate investor. But I have thought I think somewhere around one hundred and fifty to two hundred houses direct from from owner at a discount. So I can get more into how that came about, if you like. But that's basically my story.
Dave Debeau [00:02:16] Well, it sounds like you are a bit of a real estate investment. Some so. Yeah. Just 30 seconds. Yeah. What strategy do you focus on? What do you what are you doing with these houses.
John Martinez [00:02:26] Yeah. So I you know, I focused 100 percent on the acquisition side of things when we bought, we just partnered with different investors in whatever those territories were and they would handle the marketing for us. I jump in, do the acquisitions handed back to those companies and they would usually wholesale them. So that was how it typically worked.
Dave Debeau [00:02:45] Awesome. So you got very when it comes to real estate investment, you got very, very good at talking to sellers, negotiating, getting the best possible deal, especially be doing wholesaling, because you need to be able to get it at a price where the end buyer, the end real estate investor, still gets a deal on it. So there's a lot of negotiation and sales that goes into that, I would imagine.
John Martinez [00:03:07] Yes, absolutely.
Dave Debeau [00:03:08] OK, perfect. Well, now let's talk about that, because that's that's what I really want to dig in deep with you here today, my friend. So where do you see most of us as real estate entrepreneurs really screwing up when it comes to the sales conversations where we're at or negotiations are pretty much the same thing.
John Martinez [00:03:26] So, yeah. So the biggest problem I see is really just getting to the offer. Too quick to throwing out random offers. A lot of people, even newer real estate investors, I find can get pretty savvy and pretty good at the marketing piece to produce leads fairly quickly. But after those leads are produced, usually the next thing they do is instead of working on conversions, they're just throwing out offers left and right, left and right. And then the the conversions, the number of deals they get is very, very low. So a lot of times they go upside down. The marketing can get expensive. Then I bring any deals to support it and things get a little wonky. So the biggest mistake I find is not that there's too much focus on marketing, but not enough on actually converting the leads that you're producing into deals.
Dave Debeau [00:04:10] So if I'm hearing right, what I'm hearing between the lines there is they're making offers and typically they're just going in with a absolute lowball offer right off the get go. Massive rejection on those, obviously, and not being able to get enough actual conversations going where they can close on deals.
John Martinez [00:04:30] Yeah. So in other words, they're just they're leaving a ton of deals on the table.
Dave Debeau [00:04:33] Yeah. For sure. OK, so yeah, I can see that that would be a big problem. So what do you recommend that people do instead of that?
John Martinez [00:04:42] You know, I'm just going to give you very simple things that anyone listening today can implement immediately and get better results so no one don't lead with the offer. Hold off until the very end of the conversation to make your offer. Make sure you focus on front end conversation on what actually caused them to reach out, what they're dealing with and talk as much as possible about their situation. Now, there's different questions you can ask in all kinds of stuff, but. Basically, if you spend a lot of time talking about their situation, what they want, what they're dealing with, what they want to see at the end of all this, you're going to learn exactly what they need. You're going to learn how to present your offer. You're going to know exactly what they need to hear, what concerns they have. And that alone is going to increase conversion rates. I think we've got fifteen hundred investors in our training right now. And so we often ask questions and figure out what's happening out there with the best of the best and the best of the best. Their sales conversations before the offer run forty five minutes to an hour. So if your conversations if you're in there in and out in 10 minutes, you're not spending enough time.
Dave Debeau [00:05:46] Well, that just kind of makes sense. I mean, it's like 20, 20 hindsight. All right. Well, the obvious. Would you say it like that? So, yeah, I've been guilty of that myself, John. You know, I've gone in there. In fact, I'm embarrassed to say back to the name when I was focusing on it wasn't going wholesale deals, but that kind of idea, I actually had a call, not even an answering service. I'm answering service with a completely untrained people taking the calls and basically was just doing a very, very quick questionnaire. And one of the questions was basically, what's the bottom line price will take on your property? And then I would have a conversation after that. But I, I definitely left a lot of deals on the table by not, I guess, would empathizing be a word there, empathizing with them and really having that long of a conversation. So, yeah, that kind of makes sense. So how how do you create that rapport that opens people up? Because I imagine you've done a lot of this initially. People are calling up their little skeptical. They think you're going to try and scalp them, which at the end of the day, we do need to get a really good deal there. So how do you overcome that, that initial hesitancy to talk with you?
John Martinez [00:07:00] Yeah. So right up front, you just want to set proper expectations because you're right, people come in just like you said, people usually come into these situations, any sales situation, but especially this because there's a lot of unknowns around it. People aren't really familiar with people who buy houses, cash. So just having proper expectations and letting people know that a yes or no is OK, that right there will relieve a lot of pressure. So for me, it always sounds like, you know, if I'm walking into a house, it's, hey, thanks for inviting me over real quick. The way this typically works is hopefully you'll give me a tour around the property. I'll start putting my offer together once I see the exact condition the house is in. I'll have some questions for you about your situation and how we need to structure things for you and what you're looking to accomplish. I'll answer any questions you have. And at the end of this thing, I'll give you an offer down to the penny. If you love it, we'll talk about what happens next. And if not, no big deal. Yes, good knows. Perfectly fine, too. Right. So we just jump into it like that.
Dave Debeau [00:07:54] Yeah. So that's like an upfront contract basically, right?
John Martinez [00:07:58] Yeah. In the sailor world is an upfront contract. Every sales training has some version of that Miller in Spain, but they all have a version of that because it's true. We've got to relieve those fears going into it.
Dave Debeau [00:08:08] Yeah, exactly. What the beautiful thing about that is. It takes the pressure off of them, takes the pressure off of you, because, again, most people are just expecting that you absolutely want them to say yes to your offer and that you're going to be really ticked off if you don't. So they have that that weight hanging over them by doing that completely gets rid of that, right? Absolutely. So are you finding that typically what you and your students are doing is you're starting off with the conversation over the phone? You're not making offers over the phone, are you? Got to go take a look at the property first now. So you go you do the tour now. Are you typically making an offer right there then, or are you going back home crunching a few numbers and making a variety of different offers? How does that typically work?
John Martinez [00:08:56] So what typically happens and I'm going to say 70 to 80 percent of the time is there's initial lead in take phone call. You kind of you know, you're building a little bit of rapport. You're just getting some basic information to see if a deal is even possible, qualified to lead. After that, you're going out to the property, taking the tour usually, I would say, with our clients. Ninety nine percent are closing. First call within an hour. Now, there are probably 20, 30 percent of deals that do happen on the follow up, but their focus is get the deal while they're there because too many deals are lost with other investors coming, especially with all the while.
Dave Debeau [00:09:30] You got that report, right?
John Martinez [00:09:31] Yeah, absolutely.
Dave Debeau [00:09:33] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. All right. Yeah. So what where else do you see? Well, OK, so let's say you've got the offer, you made the offer. Are you going back and trying to renegotiate things at a later time or you just kind of giving them the bottom line offer right there and then.
John Martinez [00:09:47] Yeah. So we give an offer and we use a variety of negotiating techniques, price anchoring, decreasing intervals. There's all kinds of stuff you can. Books like Chris Moss's book is great on negotiation. There's a bunch of good ones. Roger Dawson's a great negotiator with a lot of their techniques, just really converted to being used in real estate, but. We make the offer. There's a right and wrong way to make the offer, and I mean, anyone who's done this once or twice knows if you just lay out low, low offer, it's usually met with some resistance. So there is a way to to slide into it and negotiate. Yeah, we make the offer. We negotiate, always relieving pressure, always keeping that rapport. And at the end, if it's not a yes, we call it a no and we move on.
Dave Debeau [00:10:29] Yeah, well, that's OK. That's a good point, because you hear in a lot of old school sales training and whatnot that follow up, follow up, follow up, you just got to be always going out to people. So what is your take on that? Are you if they don't decide to go, move and right there, you're pretty much just moving on to the next one kind of thing?
John Martinez [00:10:50] Well, follow up is important, but we want follow up to be effective and we want to make sure that we're only following up with deals where we've got a chance at closing them. Not we don't want to just follow up on deals for the sake of following up. We also don't want to follow up on deals when we could have closure right there. So our philosophy is when we talk about the sales process, we talk about motivation. There needs to be a certain amount of motivation for someone to want to sell a house. So we dove deep into that. The second part of the sales call is we dove into what's called deal killers or objections or whatever. Whatever is going to keep someone from moving forward. When you do that really, really well, you take a lot of those. Let me think about it's off the table because you're proactively covering what typically causes the let me think about it right the way it is a no. But I don't want to tell you you're relieved that because you took all the pressure off the table motivation, you dove in deep. So you take that off the table if they just don't have enough motivation. And then the deal killers, you're dealing with those upfront. So by the time you make the offer, you were hit 80 percent of what keeps what makes it think it over or a follow up situation. So that's how we handle it. Now, if we get there and it is a no, we know exactly why it's a no. It's going to be a no forever. Just not going to work or, hey, there's this deal killer or there's another issue we can't deal with right now. And now our follow up is more effective. We know what to ask about. We know what we're looking for. And they had a good experience. So they're going to be likely to to take our calls and continue the conversation with them.
Dave Debeau [00:12:14] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So, John, you've been working with a lot of real estate people for years now. What are some of the other big mistakes people are making when it comes to closing on deals? Are there any other real red flags that you see over and over again?
John Martinez [00:12:30] Yeah, one is just pushing too hard for the deal when people are a little bit overzealous and they push, push, push. Let's make this happen. I know you're going to love this. There's a very well documented thing that happens called psychological reactance. Basically, when you push people too hard, they push back. And I do a lot. I study a lot of nerdy sales stuff and how we make decisions and neuroscience, that type of stuff. But basically, when you push too hard, especially in a complex deal situation like real estate, the more times you try to close, the harder you push, the less likely you are to get a deal. So that's probably another one of the big issues I see is instead of people relieving pressure, they're creating pressure, creating push back, encouraging people not to mislead, hide, sometimes become hostile because they're just pushing too hard for that deal. And the the outcome is they get less deals because of it.
Dave Debeau [00:13:18] Isn't that so true? Not just in sales situations. Mentor of mine named Steve Chandler, as I say, is needy, is creepy. Right? That's basically what that is like. If you're if you're too desperate, if you're too needy, it's kind of like that nerdy kid in high school chasing after the girl. Right? You're just like a puppy dog. And it it repels them. Absolutely. You're saying is pretty much the same thing, even with a motivated home seller, even if they need to sell your house, if you're if you come across as too eager to needy, it's going to turn them off.
John Martinez [00:13:53] Yeah. And especially when it comes to negotiations, because talking about eagerness and neediness, if someone says, well, I'd be willing to sell it for one hundred, go, absolutely. Here's a paperwork. They're going to pull back immediately and go, whoa, that was not enough. That was way too quick. Right. So I've seen negotiations die that way, too, because it was just too needy. The numbers worked immediately in. The sellers were just taken aback and that was too easy. I leaving money on the table. Hold on a minute.
Dave Debeau [00:14:18] Yeah, I'm ashamed to say I've made that mistake twice.
John Martinez [00:14:23] Haven't we all have
Dave Debeau [00:14:24] a memory came back to mind that that would hurt for sure. Job well time flies when we're having fun. I know, I know you do training and you offer different programs and stuff about sales, especially when it comes to real estate investors. If people who are listening to this or watching this are interested in finding out more about you and what you do, where should they go?
John Martinez [00:14:46] Our website, the RTI Sales Academy, and we've got about one hundred to one hundred and fifty training videos on there for real estate investors from lead and to negotiations and acquisition. So lots of free stuff on there for people.
Dave Debeau [00:14:58] Awesome. All right. Well, we'll definitely put the link in the show notes there. And as we're just wrapping up at the last minute, any last words? Any. Question that I should have asked you, but I didn't get to,
John Martinez [00:15:08] you know, the one question I would ask is especially with newer real estate investors, it's the secret to success. What's the one thing I should focus on? And being around some of the best of the best in the business and people who started out with their first deal and got to be one of the top five or 10 percent. The secret is just keep taking action. That is the only secret. Do not stop. Do not overthink things. Just continually take action. That would be my biggest piece of advice, bar none.
Dave Debeau [00:15:34] And I would completely agree. And I would add to that and learn from people that have successfully done what you want to do, because that's the ultimate shortcut. So, I mean, absolutely, you know, we're talking about sales and having those conversion conversations. If you're not good at it, find somebody who is and learn from. All right. John has been great. Thank you very much for being on the show.
John Martinez [00:15:55] Thanks. It was a pleasure.
Dave Debeau [00:15:56] All right, everybody, take care and see you on the next episode. Bye bye. Well, thanks very much for checking out the property profits podcast. And you like what we're doing here. Please head on over
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