Table of Contents - EPISODE 3: THE ONE WITH AARON MOORE (PRIVATE REAL ESTATE DEALS)
Sandy MacKay [00:00:00] Breakthrough Real Estate Investing Podcast, Episode three.
Rob Break [00:00:25] Hello and welcome to the Breakthrough Audio podcast. Thanks for joining us today. We put this show together to inspire you and help you live the life that you want to live through, the power of real estate investing. My name is Rob Break, and here with me is Sandy McKay. Looking sharp and doing well, hopefully. What's up, Sandy?
Sandy MacKay [00:00:44] Oh, not too much, rather, I'm feeling awesome. I'm really excited about this one really awesome call we've got going here and really pumps to have air and more on the show today. And yeah, it's going to be really cool. Before we get into that. I want to remind everyone to go check out, break through our podcast Dossie. And we've got a couple of free, free reports up there for you, really going to help you become a better investor. And tons and tons of great knowledge on real estate on that website, our past interviews and shows. And you can get them all at break through our podcast Dossie. So go there and check those out
Rob Break [00:01:28] in that at this point where a couple of shows deep. So if you're joining us for the first time, just be sure to go back and check out the other episodes as well on iTunes or like Sandy just said, a break through our podcast gutsier and just click the subscribe button and all of the new episodes will be available to you as we release them. And I actually believe that you could still be the first one to leave an actual review of the show. So so if you like it or even if you don't, just let us know. And we would really love to get your feedback.
Sandy MacKay [00:02:02] Definitely. And check back in every well right now at the start, at least for doing them every fifteenth of the month. I know we didn't do those the first couple episodes. We're not quite on the 15th, but going forward, they're going to be every month on the 15th and we're going to probably have a new speaker every single month and talk about new strategies and and where we are right now in the real estate investment world in Canada. So keep an eye out for new episodes are going to come every month and have that new intro music, too. That was pretty cool, this one.
Rob Break [00:02:37] Oh, that was awesome. Yeah, I should mention that my cousin made that music for me, Jeff Tatlock. I actually haven't even asked him if I can use it yet, but I'm sure he won't mind. Oh yeah. No, I think it'll be OK.
Sandy MacKay [00:02:52] Nice. Yeah. We, we thought we'd put together something new and unique for the show. So, so first time Testino, the new music, excited to have that and really, really excited, like I said, to have more on here. And he's going to explain some really cool stuff with us here tonight on the show. He is going to talk a lot about a lot of different things. And he's done a lot of cool stuff in the real estate investing world specifically is going to tell you how to find and buy private real estate deals at discounted prices right here in Canada. And I'm talking about super discounted prices. He's going to talk about his unique strategy for putting together awesome rent to own deals and really killer strategy that he talks about that I don't hear many people using. So really, really cool thing. They're. And he's also going to tell you how to stick with it and succeed when you keep hearing the word no, which is something I know we all can probably relate to. And certainly in real estate investing, it's a big part of it. So stay on line here. There comes our interview with Aaron Moore.
Rob Break [00:04:03] Well, Aaron, how are you tonight?
Aaron Moore [00:04:05] I'm doing great, thanks, Rob.
Rob Break [00:04:08] It's great to have you here and Sandy, I think you're there, too. Are you there?
Sandy MacKay [00:04:13] Definitely right here. Yeah, it's really great to have you on air and for everyone out there who is not familiar with Aaron Moore. He is a full time real estate investor based out of the greater Toronto area. He's an expert in finding real estate, a private real estate, deals that can be turned into incredible investment opportunities. And Erin likes to buy a lot of ugly houses and turn them into the nicest or at least one of the nicest houses on the street. Kind of like they do it on TV, just, of course, without all that good old fashioned drama that they like to do on TV. Aaron is so good at finding these deals that he simply can't keep them all to himself. So he also utilizes a strategy known as wholesaling real estate, which is a great little strategy for making quick money and also helping other investors find and make great real estate purchases. Aaron has won multiple awards, including the Ontario Renovator of the Year in 2011, and that's from the Real Estate Investors Network or otherwise known as Rain. And he was the top 10 player in 2011 and 2012 with rain. He is a silver pin recipient and also recently was awarded the gold pen from rain as well. And the other cool thing about Erin that I got to mention here is that he or his wife is Christina Catana Moore and she is a real estate agent with Remax. And the reason I mention that is because they form a really a cool, well, unique powered team of really awesome investment, real estate investments, deal finders. And I think that's a really cool thing to do. So as anything I miss there, Erin, is that sum you up pretty good?
Aaron Moore [00:06:10] That sounds great. Appreciate it.
Rob Break [00:06:14] Yeah. Well, thank you again for being here. The break through real estate investing podcast. And we know you're busy, so we're going to jump right in. So that's all right. Great. OK. Well, like like Sandy mentioned there, we know you deal with a lot of different strategies, but today we're going to focus on wholesaling for the most part. We'll talk about some of the other stuff later on. But first of all, we just wanted to know, how did you get started in wholesaling?
Aaron Moore [00:06:45] Well, it was two years ago I I did have a couple rental properties and it took me a few years of having these rental properties to see how well I did with them. So, you know, I think probably a lot of us on the call about investment, real estate, but the mortgages for pay down the the value had risen quite a lot in my monthly expenses were being paid by rent. And I said to myself, I got to do more of this because it's working. It's making me money. So at that point, I started really learning about real estate and trying to figure out what do I want to do next with real estate. So I started books, talking to people, going to local real estate investment groups, and I started hearing people talking about, you know, concepts like wholesaling but, you know, advertising to attract motivated sellers. You know, these buying privately and, you know, this talk of pre foreclosures. And someone also told me that wholesaling was a great way to really get your feet wet, real estate and to learn multiple strategies. And once you learned the multiple strategies, maybe you'll you'll see what interests you or what's the best fit for you in your life. So really, that that's what I did, that that's how I got started. I just I learned learned enough to get started. I started doing and I started having success.
Rob Break [00:08:19] So, er, can you just briefly explain to what what exactly wholesaling is.
Aaron Moore [00:08:24] Sure. Pretty much. It starts with getting an accepted agreement of purchase and sale. So I'm sure many of many of the people listening here have bought a house at some point in their lives. So think back to that point when you've got an accepted agreement. So you signed off on it, the seller signed off on it. The deal the deal is accepted. That's that's our terminology. So at that point, if you know someone who wants to pay more for the house, then you just paid for it. So you've got under contract for, let's say, one hundred thousand dollars. Someone else is going to buy it for one hundred five thousand. Then you can choose. Do you want to buy the house four hundred thousand or do you want to take five thousand from this other buyer and sign the contract over to them. Take your five thousand dollar fee. And that's, that's, that's that this other buyer closes on the property. So basically wholesaling is you get an accepted agreement to buy a house. You find someone who wants to pay a higher price and you take a fee to sign the contract over. So the buyer that forecloses on the property and, you know, in the legal world, we call that signing a contract. Anything else you guys want me to touch on?
Sandy MacKay [00:09:54] Well, I mean, right away, I'm sure you probably just blew a few people's minds there just explaining that, because even some investors are, you know, people that have been in real estate for a while. I don't even know what that's all about. And they've never even heard of that. So I think I think it's a really cool concept. And I think a lot of people maybe hear that for the first time and don't think that it's possible and they maybe think it's something not doable here in Canada. Can you kind of just touch on that, like how it's possible? I mean, we've all done it. We've all done here. But I think it's it's such a cool concept and.
Aaron Moore [00:10:39] Yeah, it's pretty. Get it. Yeah, it's actually it's actually done quite a bit. And you know, a way my lawyer put it to me is any contract is assignable unless it says it's not assignable. So, you know, I'm not just talking real estate, I'm talking any contract. This is, this is this is my assignment is a legal thing. So you can look at the contract, you know, probably the contract for your cell phone between you and the Rogers or Bell or whoever the company is. You know, that contract probably has a clause talking about assignment. You know, it's probably saying it's not assignable. You know, if you look at a contract with a renovation company, they might say this contract is a sign of. With written agreement from both parties, it all depends, so you look at your contract figure if it's assignable, but it happens all the time and it's very common in in Toronto with with new condos. So people buy these condos, preconstruction, so they don't own their individual condo yet they have an agreement to buy it from the builder. So this this is where this is where most people most lawyers are familiar with the assignment. You know, you talk to any lawyer in Toronto, they'll be very familiar with. Assignment's a brand new built condos because people who buy preconstruction, they can sign their contract to another buyer in this happened tricker. But they cannot because the building's not done yet. So they cannot sell their condo normally because they don't even have title to it yet. So they can sign this contract to someone else and take a large fee for doing so.
Sandy MacKay [00:12:33] Yeah, that's great. And could you also just tell the listeners how you would actually put one of these deals together? Like, how does it how does the process happen?
Aaron Moore [00:12:42] Sure. So if I'm having a conversation with someone and it sounds like, you know, the flexible, you know, some flexibility on price, they're not looking for the the highest price on the street, let's say. And, you know, basically, I'll do a bit of my Internet research before I spend time going out to look at a property. So I'll get them or get an idea of myself, of, you know, is this are they asking a high price for the asking a low price for the area? A very reasonable price. You know, of course, I got to talk to the person to get an idea of the condition of the house, all these details. And I'll do a bit of Internet research into it. If it looks like it's, you know, something that might fit my numbers, my profit potential, then I'll, you know, look at time to see the property. You know, if I like what I see. And I still think it can work based on my conversation with the. With the sellers or get them an offer pretty quickly in writing, and then it's up to them to. Sign off on the agreement and get it accepted. Or what what point do you want to dove into Israel? Is there a part of the process you want to look closer at?
Rob Break [00:14:09] Well. I mean, I think we'll cover we'll cover more than that one with the rest of the questions here, but I mean, that was definitely what we were looking for there for that answer. Yeah.
Sandy MacKay [00:14:22] Yeah, I guess I mean, the next thing is just how do you find this property, because that's probably really what what everyone really wants to know is how the heck do you come up with a property where someone wants to sell it to you for a certain kind of value? Like, why the heck would anyone want to do that?
Aaron Moore [00:14:40] Yeah, well, you know, it happens all the time. And I do get some deals off right off the MLS list with realtors, but the majority of them are ones that I actively do marketing for. So the sellers are contacting me. But, you know, if you if you do, you know, it's interesting. You can find if you do some searches on MLS, look at history, you can find lots of flip's done lots of good buys there. But, you know, I know the market's pretty competitive now, so it really all depends on timing and a lot of factors. But but the majority of my deals, like I said, it's it's from, you know, active marketing. So I'm looking for those people who just want the quick, quiet, easy sell. The you know, these are people who may be embarrassed of the state of the property that, you know, they they'd be horrified of the idea of of dozens of showings on their property at all hours of the day. They'd be horrified of that. And people just with maybe a very tight timeline who want to, you know, who don't think a realtor will be able to sell it fast enough and get them the price they're looking for, you know, and of course, they can avoid realtor fees and avoid holding costs if they if they do a quick sale. So to track these people, you know, one of my favorite methods is, you know, mail. So I mail out fliers and letters. You know, I think mails are pretty obvious way to attract home sellers because it goes right to the house. So it's in the mailbox. So if you if you want to buy in a certain neighborhood your mail letters to that neighborhood and of course,
Rob Break [00:16:29] what are your letters say?
Aaron Moore [00:16:31] Well, you know, it all depends. But it's typically my kind of standard letter would say something like, you know, I'm looking to buy looking to buy a house and I'll buy it in any condition. I can give you the closing date of your choice and I might list a couple other benefits, but it usually involves, you know, selling it as is in any condition and, you know, do it fast or give you the closing date of your choice, things like that.
Rob Break [00:16:59] So you do do you do a handwritten letter or do you have it all typed up
Aaron Moore [00:17:04] or typically I like more personal handwritten style.
Rob Break [00:17:07] Yeah, yeah. That's seems to be the seems to be the winner because I know that that's like everywhere where I've learned how to do this, cutting that seem to be what they recommend is a letter. So I've done it that way myself too. And it seems to work pretty well.
Aaron Moore [00:17:26] And I don't always do that sometimes. You know, if I do a handwritten letter, it's coming from the Erryn even more so. But sometimes I'll do some typed up coming from, you know, my business GTA house buyers. So it all depends, but the majority of them will be the more personal one.
Sandy MacKay [00:17:48] And and I know you didn't hear you talking to me also do quite a bit of I guess you call it bandit signs or or stickers, I guess, around the GTA. Yeah. Can you just talk about how you do that sort of advertising to.
Aaron Moore [00:18:04] Sure. So basically, you know, popular intersections are popular streets. I get my door signs on telephone poles or light poles or or the backs of the street like traffic signs. You know, it's just I guess people are in their cars waiting at traffic lights or driving down the road. And it's just a good place to it's kind of like little little billboards. Right. So it works well, too.
Rob Break [00:18:37] And if you've driven around this area, I'm sure you've seen one of them. You know, I got a call from the city of Oshawa yesterday. The guy, the guy I haven't put out signs in a long time, but the guy he left me a message saying that he was interested in learning more. And then when I called him back, he grilled me a little bit, you know, just asked me what was up with the signs. And then and then he tells me he's from the city. And I said I'd better start putting them up. You know, he was going to be somehow charging me.
Aaron Moore [00:19:13] OK, so, yeah, it's the it's the city. Some cities have sort of different bylaws and most of them allow you to put them up on telephone poles. And but it all depends on the cities.
Rob Break [00:19:26] So I thought it was pretty sneaky because it tended to be somebody else.
Sandy MacKay [00:19:30] Yeah, it was a bait and switch on air.
Rob Break [00:19:32] Yeah. Yeah. An interesting tactic.
Aaron Moore [00:19:36] I know I don't put it in the open would because I would be told me they don't they definitely don't like my science.
Sandy MacKay [00:19:41] So yeah. It's tough though. Like really in the end of the day it's, it's pretty darn hard to find these properties isn't it.
Aaron Moore [00:19:50] What is marketing. It's a lot of marketing. Mm hmm. Yeah.
Sandy MacKay [00:19:56] So like how do you identify with someone if if someone calls you, how do you identify a motivated seller, how do you pick a motivated seller apart from from a bylaw officer?
Aaron Moore [00:20:08] Well, you got to ask questions. You got to find out about the property and what they're looking for. So it's definitely asking questions and listening to the the answers. You know, if someone's telling me or, you know, ask or ask about the condition of the house, if it needs some renovations or updates, if they tell me, no, everything's perfect, they just finished updating it. I'm like, OK. And then I find out they're they're not looking to sell any time soon, then, you know, there's probably. It's probably not for me and, you know, if I was in great condition that they're in no rush to sell, then I'm sure they can get a higher price for a realtor. No problem. And that's what I recommend to them. But then what you're really the people you're looking for are and this is what I advertise for, people who want either maybe a fast closing or a very specific closing. Maybe they've bought bought another house and they need that specific closing date. And maybe there's there's a number of issues they have like their house. Needs renovations, they're you know, they're they say the they're having trouble doing the renovations because they're busy with work or they're just not good at renovations, they don't have the money to hire someone, you know, so there's all these issues. So, you know, if you're asking if you're getting in the conversation about the House and about what they're looking for, these issues come out fairly quickly. And if there's no issues, then there's there's not much I feel I can help them with because there's there's there's lots of houses to buy and there's lots of houses listed on on the Internet, on MLS. So there's lots for me to choose from. So if I'm doing a private sale, it needs to be, you know, very definitely better than what I can get any day of the week just looking on MLS.
Rob Break [00:22:12] Right. And in that case, then you would recommend them to a great real estate agent. You know,
Aaron Moore [00:22:17] I said I certainly could if they're interested. But and certainly a lot of people, you know, they know a realtor or they you know, of course, realtors do a lot of advertising as well. So they might have their neighborhood, realtor, whatever, but I can certainly recommend them to a great realtor.
Sandy MacKay [00:22:34] Yeah, and totally. That's that sounds pretty good. And. Like a lot of people don't think that these kind of sellers are out, there are people that need to sell fast and that. But, you know, it always amazes me how many of them actually are out there. Maybe they're not totally motivated quite enough, but they're like there's a lot of motivated people out there trying to get rid of their homes, among other things. But their houses is the big thing. And there's a lot of them out there. I'm always amazed how many of them are there.
Aaron Moore [00:23:04] Yeah, it's surprising. And there's yeah, there's more than we know. If you think about all the other banks or properties that are come up listed on MLS all the time, you know what what happened to those families to make them you would become a bank, sell property like that. That means the people were
Aaron Moore [00:23:25] went to the power of sale, means they were, you know, Sheriff, lock the doors, possibly
Aaron Moore [00:23:29] evicted them if they haven't moved in time. So, you know, the goal is to advertise and track these people to call us before the power sale process happens to them.
Rob Break [00:23:42] I was going to say, in many ways you really are helping these people out because like, once it gets to that point, they're really, really, you know, it's it's gone quite far and they're in a lot worse shape than they would be if someone if they knew about someone like you and they had the option to unload when. Before it got to that point,
Aaron Moore [00:24:08] yeah, because it's like the power of sale process, you know, the banks are going to charge a lot of fees and expenses and it's all going to go, you know, to it's basically sat on the mortgage. So it's all going to be at the expense of the seller. So it's in their best interest to settle ASAP if they're able to go into power to the longer longer they delay, the more more charges there's going to be and the less equity they're going to have in their house.
Sandy MacKay [00:24:40] Yes, exactly, and that's the cool thing about about this is they are you really are helping them in the end, that you're helping the people that you're going to work with, you're actually going to help them. And I think that's that's the cool part about it, too. And what people a lot of people out there don't understand is, is that you're actually helping someone. In the end, it's not some sort of scam or anything like that. It's your your first for the right person. You're really creating some value for them and helping them move along with their lives. So it's great
Aaron Moore [00:25:09] that I've been able to negotiate with its lenders to lower their fees and reduce the interest and penalties that the syllogisms so even did a short sale with the bank took took less than the mortgage principle, which is pretty rare, but it happened, so.
Sandy MacKay [00:25:32] Wow, that's cool. Yeah. So I haven't heard about that one. I haven't heard about a deal like that really in talking of them in the US. But yeah, around here I haven't heard about that. That's pretty interesting.
Rob Break [00:25:44] And so if it's going to Paracel, do you always try that to team up with your lawyer and go see if you can work out a deal with the bank?
Aaron Moore [00:25:56] Well, it's what we often do, but it all depends on, you know, you've got to look at the mortgage balance. If they're behind on property taxes, that's the condition of the house. It hasn't. It's usually it's usually when there's a multiple when there's multiple problems. So it's there behind on taxes. There's a bit of a dump, you know, especially if there's a second mortgage. But, you know, the first and the second mortgage mortgages.
Aaron Moore [00:26:28] The to be willing to negotiate if there's multiple problems already,
Aaron Moore [00:26:31] so you've got to look at the value of the House about the balance of the mortgage and the other other problems involved. But definitely if if the. You know, there's a lot of rhinos needed buying property taxes. I definitely look at negotiating with the lenders.
Rob Break [00:26:52] Well, that's really interesting. I've never thought of doing that.
Sandy MacKay [00:26:56] Yeah, now, Aaron, for for someone out there who is maybe wanting to start trying some of this time marketing for some motivated sellers or trying to find some good deals, whether to sell them or just to buy them for themselves. I mean, it sounds like a lot of work for sure. And it is. But how many leads do you think it takes, like how much marketing material you need to put out there? How many leads did come in before you actually take advantage and make some money from right through the marketing?
Aaron Moore [00:27:30] Oh, of course. It depends on on your your marketing, on a few things. Like let's let's say if you're just looking for a buy and hold rental property like something, you might just want to buy it 10 percent below market value. So that's easier to find than say something you can fix and flip. That is, you know, essentially you're buying at 20, 30 percent below market value. But of course, there's a big rental. You know, there's a big question mark and variable at the rental expense. That's that's more and less for different people. But I guess what I'm getting to is I can send a letter saying I'll buy your house from market price and I'm going to get a lot more leads. And if I say I'm looking to buy houses, you know, any condition, I'm I'm not going to buy fast, but I'm not looking to pay the highest price. You know, you're going to get a lot different goals depending on the type of market you're doing. Right. So, you know, if you're doing. Marketing, where we were looking to buy at a bigger discount by saying, you know, I'm not looking to buy. You know, I'm not looking to pay a high price, then you probably, you know, maybe maybe one out of 10 leads turns into a deal like maybe one out of 20.
Rob Break [00:29:03] But that's what and that's what people need to understand, because a lot of people seem to think that, you know, because they stick a sign on the ground that that all of the people that call them are going to be are going to have something that they can work with. And that's just not the way it is. You've got to filter through a lot of calls and it's a lot of work, especially when you start before you really know exactly what you're looking for and what how to identify the person, maybe even a little bit quicker over the phone. I mean, a lot of people think that they're just going to stick up a sign and then the flood of calls is going to come in and they're going to start finding these deals. So they need to everyone needs to understand that a lot of work goes into this area. And it's not just kicking back in and out of the money rolls in. Exactly.
Aaron Moore [00:29:56] And you also need to understand that, you know, not every house is up for sale. Right. Look how many people on any given street are going to sell in the next two years. You know, it's a it's a minority. So people don't just all of a sudden decide to sell their house for no reason. Like, you know, I'm just saying houses don't turn over that quickly. So don't expect there to be massive amounts of motivated sellers in any given market.
Rob Break [00:30:28] OK, so we've talked about how how how you find the motivated sellers, and we've talked about how you can't track the deals with them. So now we sort of want to shift gears a little bit and talk about where you would find your investors or buyers if you were to want to wholesale the deal. Sure. So do you want to walk us through that a little bit like.
Aaron Moore [00:30:54] Yeah, and I'd say
Aaron Moore [00:30:56] a lot of my let's say my repeat investors, I've met a lot of them at local real estate investment groups. So these are people, you know, maybe they buy a couple of rental properties a year, they
Aaron Moore [00:31:14] the sticks and sell a few properties a year. So there's there's a lot of people I've met, you know, they're actually physically Matamata, a local group. And then, you know, I guess it's it's nice to put a name to the face and meet in person and then you end up doing a few deals over the years. So that's probably the number one source. But also, you know, once once you have a great deal, then, you know, I'll sometimes I'll advertise it on, say, the classifieds websites, like, could you do Craigslist? More buyers that way as well. So that's another way. I mean, those are the two main ways.
Rob Break [00:32:01] And so you I would say that the majority of the ones that I've done, too, are just people that I've met at the real estate meetings to.
Sandy MacKay [00:32:13] Yeah, yeah, because, of course, you build a rapport and stuff that way, and that's if someone, you know, you can also build email lists and all that through whatever however you want to do it, if you're giving away free stuff or things like that online. But nothing beats seeing someone face to face, building some rapport and then like sending them an email with a great deal, like you said, do it kind of thing.
Rob Break [00:32:36] Yeah, we have if you have something that's really a deal, you shouldn't be it shouldn't be too hard to get rid of it. Yeah. So the so wholesaling is sort of like a backup for you, you like to keep a lot of the deals yourself and and you do something with them and keep them in your portfolio, can you? The ones that are the ones that you keep for yourself. What strategies do is.
Aaron Moore [00:33:09] Well. A lot of them I will buy, fix and sell, because, you know, you can it's
Aaron Moore [00:33:18] you know, there's quite a few that I keep as rentals. So I'll, you know,
Aaron Moore [00:33:24] typically I'll renovate then or refinance and rent them out. But there's there's a lot of properties that just. You know, they don't they don't make a lot of sense as a rental property, too expensive, they're too big, the numbers just don't work very well unless you put a lot of money into it to you. You'd have to keep a lot more money in the property to make it to make the numbers work. And it's really locking up a lot of money that, you know, I can buy properties with better numbers. So if the numbers work for a rental or I'll try to keep them as rentals, but if not, I'll just fix and sell them. So those are the main strategies, but I also do some read to Owens and the sweet spot I like for ringtones because I'm you know, I'm buying properties first is typically when houses are livable, but they're dated. So they're not the most attractive house, attractive house. And they're usually I was I'd really be too embarrassed to rent out like I wouldn't want to offer them as rentals without doing renovations first. But I find if you offer someone the opportunity to put in a little sweat equity and they get to own the house, so I give them a good deal because I got a good deal in the works. So for every one of these are serious people who who who are there more than just tenants and they're actually people who are going to buy these houses. So that's another strategy I like.
Rob Break [00:35:02] So that's something that's in your contract with the buyer or is that just what what tends to happen then, fixing it up?
Aaron Moore [00:35:12] Well, it's it's not in the contract. Not like it's the houses are livable. So there's nothing I'm not putting them in a house that has to have some work done. Otherwise you can't live there. No, it's just, you know, they might be in the kitchens are older, the carpets might be stained. You know, it's just it's dated and not the prettiest, but it's it's livable. There's nothing nothing wrong with it. But it's a great opportunity for them to buy something. And, you know, they can slowly renovate their taste over time.
Rob Break [00:35:47] And you're still doing rentals right now?
Aaron Moore [00:35:50] Yep. Still doing them.
Rob Break [00:35:52] That's good. But I think it still works. I've never done one, but as far as I can tell, I know a lot of people that were in a few years ago are kind of pull it up because the numbers are quite as good as what they were back then. But it still sounds like a good, solid strategy.
Aaron Moore [00:36:10] Oh, definitely. And, you know, it's you'll typically get higher than a standard rent value. And even if the house is not the prettiest, like I'm talking about because but portion of the monthly payment goes towards building their down payment. So the numbers were great on it.
Sandy MacKay [00:36:31] And so do you find a lot of I guess you probably find a lot of these deals. Or I guess what I'm asking is, do you find a lot of tenants through your marketing, like you like all the marketing we talked about before, are you finding tenants in that way as well, just or are you actually finding the property and then just finding the tenant later?
Aaron Moore [00:36:53] Typically, typically finding the property first, the tenant afterwards, and to find tenants, you the main place tenants are looking out these classified ad sites online. So I just advertise their.
Sandy MacKay [00:37:13] And have you ever had a problem with that going that road, I mean, there's always that debate on first or property first and I mean, both ways in my mind can work pretty well. But have you ever had any problems there finding good tenants for these properties?
Aaron Moore [00:37:32] No, no major problems. Like I remember one time it it took me, you know, between one month, two months to find a rental and buyer for a house. But it was OK because I made the contract conditional on me finding a rental buyer. So it was all fine.
Sandy MacKay [00:37:52] Perfect. And that goes back to just the contractor. Yeah. You've got those in line then
Aaron Moore [00:37:58] and then you're good. But if that was because it was a very small town that I wasn't too, let's say, comfortable with or familiar with. So that's why I did that. If it was somewhere I'm more familiar with, you know, there's other places I'm very confident based on the numbers I can find a rental buyer or just a tenant even. So it all depends on my comfort level.
Sandy MacKay [00:38:22] Do you have I know you do a lot of different deals, so do you have a favorite or maybe what's your favorite strategy, first of all? And then like, do you have a favorite deal that kind of sticks out in your mind from your past at all?
Aaron Moore [00:38:36] Well, my favorite strategy and this, you know, goes back a long time is just, you know, you buy rent. So just the long term holds. And like like I said a long time ago, I bought a couple of rentals and just to see, you know, what's your own. It all depends on the area you own. But, you know, after a few years, you can get a tremendous amount of appreciation and the mortgage pay down the rent doesn't hurt either. But with the long term benefits and the the taxation on long term rentals are better. And, of course, you know, owner occupied house tax and capital gains on your principal residence. So there's a lot of a lot of benefits there in the long term real estate. So that's seeing seeing that after a few years is what got me to do real estate full time. No, but that that being said, you know, probably my favorite deal is when I you know, I probably in hindsight should have kept as a rental, but I ended up reselling it. So, you know, it's it's just a great way to make income is buying, fixing and selling the house. So you want to hear about one of my favorite all time deals?
Rob Break [00:40:02] Absolutely. Yeah.
Aaron Moore [00:40:04] OK, I'm going to tell you when it's it's one of these too good to be true once. Like, it doesn't it doesn't come up every year. I wish it would but this, this. But it happened to me. This is the way it was. But I wish I got these calls every month, but I don't and I don't think you will either. But it happens and I'm still waiting for the day when someone's going to just give me a house. But OK, so let me tell you about a great deal. And and this is this is the only time I've ever paid higher than asking price. So I sent a bunch of bunch of letters to houses in Oshawa, you know, just saying my typical stuff or buying any condition or do renovations or close fast. That's that's sort of that sort of letter. So I get a call. The seller starts telling me about the situation of him and his house, and so he inherited it. You could keep it up. It needs a lot of rentals. It's it's dirty. And he's he's been sick, so he hasn't been able to keep it up. And it's he's telling me he just he just wants to get out of there. So this guy is just he's just talking and telling me all the terrible things about this house. And I'm just listening. And then he says to me, he said, I'll give it to you. Dirt cheap in the back of my mind. I'm saying, OK, yeah, right. You know, let's hear the prices. So I ask them how much? And he says, forty thousand. Like, Wow. And I know the area. It's a condo townhouse. And my immediate response is I can pay you more than that. Come on. Forty thousand. So anyways, next day I give him an offer. I say I give it, I give him sixty thousand for it. I don't know why. I just you know, because he was maybe because he was sick and feeling ill. But I gave him over asking, you know, I've learned my lesson. I won't do that again. I'll give people what they want, what they want to dump the house for. If they want to dump the house that they want to give it to me, I'll take it. But I bought it for sixty put in, I think just over twenty five thousand when I sold it for one seventy in three months. So not too wow.
Rob Break [00:42:24] Yeah. Not too bad at all. That's amazing.
Aaron Moore [00:42:27] Yeah. And yeah there's definitely, there's a lot of opportunity in estate sales people who get inherited houses because I find often these people who inherit houses, they should be living in a house like they can't do the upkeep, it can't do the maintenance. These are people should be living in an apartment building. You know, one person doesn't need to live in a three bedroom, two bath house, especially when they inherit. So it's it's a recipe for disaster. I bought a few houses from people in that scenario. One person inherits a house when they should be living in a house. That's just a sort of a common story that creates motivated sellers.
Sandy MacKay [00:43:12] Did you say that deal that you found was with that off of how did you find out what again, what was your market?
Aaron Moore [00:43:18] I sense I sent some letters.
Sandy MacKay [00:43:20] OK, Mark. Yeah, and when you send these letters, by the way, do you actually target specific areas or how do you how do you decide where you send them?
Aaron Moore [00:43:32] Yet typically it will be,
Aaron Moore [00:43:34] you know, when I often I like to target the areas that, you know, at the lower price point, either places that I can use the properties, say rentals, or, you know, if I get a fixer upper, I can buy, fix and sell for profit. But, you know, it's nice to have a back up strategy where these funds can be used as rentals.
Sandy MacKay [00:44:01] So and so. I mean, this is maybe a tough question because you only do a few different strategies, but what's the general criteria that you would use for either buying a property or for like deciding, you know, this is this is a deal that I'm interested in or as opposed to, you know, this is just a lead to throw to a realtor.
Aaron Moore [00:44:28] Well, the only criteria is can I make some money here? That's it. You know, whether it's you know, if it's short term money or long term money
Aaron Moore [00:44:39] knows that if we're talking to long term rental property, you know, I need to compare it to
Aaron Moore [00:44:44] how easy can I find. You know, something similar on the market on any given month, so no short term money for something to basically sell,
Aaron Moore [00:45:01] you know, punch the numbers into my spreadsheet. And, you know, kind of you look at the risk if it's a big run or that you want to make more money because, you know, more can go wrong if it's a small run that you need less money because it's not as complicated.
Aaron Moore [00:45:20] Those are some of the main things I think about.
Aaron Moore [00:45:24] Mm hmm.
Sandy MacKay [00:45:25] Yeah, make money and pretty much solves it. I guess in the end, it's about making money. That's what it's all about. It is a business, too.
Rob Break [00:45:34] Like you've got like the best thing about this is if if there's a good deal, there's always a strategy that works in each scenario. Sounds to me like you've really got the bases covered for, you know, hey, if this kind of property comes along, this is what I do with that property comes along. That's what I deal with. And I intend on using a lot of this information because I know
Aaron Moore [00:46:05] there's lots of different strategies in this and other investors, you know, who are all assigned properties to who are
Aaron Moore [00:46:14] looking for specific strategies. And so if I if I find a property that meets their strategy, then
Aaron Moore [00:46:20] I'll have them in mind. So even if I'm too busy or I'm not looking to do a certain strategy right now, I have someone I could pass that deal to. So it all works together.
Rob Break [00:46:31] And, you know, the rent to own thing. I never thought of that because all of the rental deals that I've heard of since there are always well, I mean, I always was under the impression that you had to be offering the really nice, fixed up, fully renovated house to the people that you wanted to do do rent to own deals with. So I was surprised to hear the way that you do it. And I think that would work very well. Yeah, it's just
Aaron Moore [00:46:56] it gives people an opportunity, right. The people who would be able to buy a house otherwise. And and I certainly, you know, I'm offering, you know, if the house isn't the prettiest and obviously I'm offering them a pretty good deal
Aaron Moore [00:47:11] on it and make it very competitive with market rents and it gives them good prices. It also makes a lot of sense. You know, if it's a bit of a fixer upper, then by the buyout price I give them is going to be less it's already less than what other similar houses have sold in the area. So there's there's going to be no problem, you know, in a couple of years when they buy it out to appraise for the value of that. Yeah. You know, maybe I just give too good of deals to the buyers, but. But it's inevitable.
Sandy MacKay [00:47:49] So, Erin, what excites you about the future of your business or about real estate in general?
Aaron Moore [00:47:57] I think, you know, just being one of my goals is to sort of be able to do more and and do more. More easily and what I find this is the more types of deals, the more deal to do that you did you become so, you know, a lot of what I'm trying to do is maybe systematize my business or get better team members in place just so I can do more and have it take up either the same or a bit less of my time. And at some point, I'm going to want to look at doing different types of deals, bigger deals like, you know, I can certainly see multifamily apartment buildings in the future. Maybe I'll get into some bigger rentals, like second stories, editions, you know. But, you know, I don't need to do it all. I don't need to do it all right now. But there's a lot of opportunity for the future. Maybe I'll start some other businesses in the future. Who knows? The future is wide open, right?
Sandy MacKay [00:49:05] Oh, yeah. I was gonna say that's the cool thing, too, is that is that is that you were saying kind of just to to do something is like a lot of people just don't even get started. Like you just got to do something really. And then then at least you're doing something and then you're going to you're going to go from there. You don't need to do it all at once, you know.
Aaron Moore [00:49:25] That's right.
Sandy MacKay [00:49:26] Yeah. I think a lot of people need to sometimes get that in their head when they're starting out. At least
Aaron Moore [00:49:32] it's definitely.
Rob Break [00:49:33] Well, Erin, I know a while back I somehow got my hands on your number. And and when I first started out, I remember I called you quite a few times and I would ask you for advice and you were always really gracious and help me out. And I just want to say that I appreciate that. And so that leads me into this question here, which is. Some more advice. Is there a piece of info or advice or a quote that has always stuck with you, and how has it helped you?
Aaron Moore [00:50:08] Well, I don't think there's any one thing. There's probably many things. But, you know, definitely, you know, simple things in life, like, you know, just do what you say, keep your word. And I know it's not easy and I'm not perfect at it. But another thing is to try not to overpromise, which makes keeping your word easier. So, you know, it just it helps in life when you do that. And that's for sure. But I think I think everyone needs to if you want to. Achieve some level of success, you've got to work, you've got to be disciplined, you've got to be organized like.
Aaron Moore [00:50:49] And I do remember this is just, you know, being organized
Aaron Moore [00:50:53] that was a piece know just came to me right now. That was a piece of advice. I had a sales job back in school. And I do remember the trainer saying the number one, I guess success factor is this is this is her opinion, the number one success factor in its sales, or you could say in business is just being organized, which which leads into a follow up list, which leads back to doing what you say, because a lot of business and sales is following up on a lot of a lot of people in sales will let leads just die or,
Aaron Moore [00:51:42] you know, you hear expressions. You need a few no's or don't don't take no for an answer. What you need you need a few dollars before you get your yeses. And it's, you know. Is this a business like mine?
Aaron Moore [00:51:59] It's a there's a certain volume to it, like a numbers, you know, they call it a numbers game to the leads. So there's a lot of work in there. You got to be organized. You got to keep track of all that. You've got to be on top of things. You've got to follow up. And it's working its business, so don't get confused. Yeah.
Rob Break [00:52:17] And I can't remember who it was that said this, but. Along the same lines as what you were saying about how, you know, you got to go through a few notes to get to a yes, but a lot of people will get the first couple of those and then they'll quit. Right. Thinking, Oh, this can't be done or it's too hard. But somebody put it to me this way and they said, you know, when you first started out dating, you know, you're not going to take the first couple no's and then just say, oh, well, I guess that's it that I give up, you know? No, we all all of us keep going until we get that. Yes. Right. So that's kind of the way I think of it that way, too.
Aaron Moore [00:53:01] Yeah. I've heard a
Sandy MacKay [00:53:01] lot of people say it, too before. You know, the sales process doesn't even start until you get at least seven no's or five no's or something. So, yeah.
Aaron Moore [00:53:13] And another piece is we talked about building rapport with people is I usually, you know, it's OK to talk on the first touch with someone if they want me to come to their house. I probably don't. I like I like a couple of contacts before I say go to someone's house to view the property. I know that's part of building rapport like. So I don't. I'm definitely not a pushy person, but I do like to you know, I'm not I don't get a filter on the phone and then try to be at their house within a couple hours. I, I try to learn about the situation or do my own Internet research for a bit. I'll be back and then we'll book something. So a couple of touches are good and it builds, builds rapport.
Rob Break [00:54:08] Well, Erin, thank you very much for coming on the show tonight, you know, really appreciate you. Like I said before, there was there was quite a few times I remember calling you and just getting advice from you and you always really help me out. So I just wanted to say thank you for that, too.
Aaron Moore [00:54:27] So glad I could help.
Rob Break [00:54:29] So where can people find out more about you?
Aaron Moore [00:54:34] Well, I don't know. That's a good question. I guess. Know I've got my website, Steeles GTA, you have investors are looking to get some Horsfield deals. You can find my dustups page on. And so Steeles GTA Gutsier, you can find some more info about me there. But yeah, that's one way to do it and contact me to that website as well.
Sandy MacKay [00:55:02] And the cool thing to it, as I said at the start, too, is that your wife is a realtor, too. So you guys got a great little team there going.
Aaron Moore [00:55:08] I mean. That's right. I mean,
Sandy MacKay [00:55:09] if anyone is looking for real estate deals out there, you guys certainly have it. Most of it covered some private deals and some. Yeah, on market deals.
Aaron Moore [00:55:17] A lot of investors like work have worked with us because we're basically a team, like you said, because we've got a good handle on the MLS deals where Christine is on top of that and I've got the private deals coming in. So there's access to these wholesale off market deals.
Aaron Moore [00:55:33] So we make a good team for investors to work with.
Sandy MacKay [00:55:38] Yeah, I think I think everyone out there listening to go check you guys out and and and call you guys and see what see what you can work on together.
Aaron Moore [00:55:46] Definitely.
Rob Break [00:55:49] OK. Thanks again. I guess we'll get talking to you soon.
Aaron Moore [00:55:54] All right. Appreciate it, guys. It's been fun.
Rob Break [00:55:57] Have a good night.
Aaron Moore [00:55:58] All right. Good luck.