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Sandy MacKay [00:00:02] He said he. Hey, Rob, what's that you're eating?

Rob Break [00:00:06] Oh, this it's the new book by award winning real estate investor Quintin de Souza. The property management toolbox is all of the tools and systems for starting out as a new landlord and all of the resources to create less stress while expanding your rental portfolio. It is awesome.

Sandy MacKay [00:00:24] Wow, that sounds amazing. We're going to get one.

Rob Break [00:00:28] Just go to w w w dot the Ontario landlord toolbox dot com.

Sandy MacKay [00:00:38] The property management toolbox, a how to guide for Ontario real estate investors and landlords. I'm going to order my copy right now and break through real estate investing podcast Episode six.

Rob Break [00:01:13] Hello and welcome to yet another episode of the Breakthrough Real Estate Investing podcast, we put the show together to inspire you and help you live the life that you want to live through the power of real estate investing. My name is Rob Break. And here with me, as always, bright eyed, ready to go, Cindy McKay. Sandy, how are you doing?

Sandy MacKay [00:01:35] I'm doing great. I'm I guess I'm a little bit bright. I don't know. But I'm definitely excited to do this and excited to share this. The stuff we got for everyone today. I think it's going to be a great episode.

Rob Break [00:01:49] Well, always bright eyed, right? Oh, of course. I know. Today we're going to talk a little bit about this report that you've written, the seven freedom activators you can trigger in your property starting right now. And this is a really awesome report that we're giving away for free.

Sandy MacKay [00:02:03] Yeah, totally free over on break through RCA podcast Dossie. So we want to encourage everyone to go pick that up. And I think it's something that is really suitable for anyone with any kind of rental property already or anyone looking to get into the rental investment property game kind of goes in the. A little bit of property management, a little bit of finding the right tenants and all that, and it's yeah, it's really good. So we're going to get into that and dove deeper into each freedom activator.

Rob Break [00:02:38] And we just want to remind you again that we'd really appreciate any feedback that you have, if you like the show, go on to iTunes and leave us a comment or write a review and speaking a review of reviews. I'm actually going to read one right now that is left over on iTunes. So let me pull it up. S.. All right, here we go. This one was left by James Kennedy, it says, finally, a real estate investing podcast for Canadians. The information given by both Sandy and Rob is amazing. Listening to their speakers, who, by the way, are some of the most respected professional investors in the DTA is so great. The tips and tricks they reveal are priceless. I recommend this test to any real estate investor, regardless if you are a beginner or not. Anyone who lives in Canada keep up the good work and looking forward to your next podcast. So that's really great. We appreciate you writing that for us, James. Thanks a lot.

Sandy MacKay [00:03:42] Yeah, and and just to be clear, if someone were to write in something like, you guys suck, I hate you, you guys are terrible, you don't know anything. I mean, that would be great to write as just.

Rob Break [00:03:52] Well, it wouldn't be great, but I'd read it exactly.

Sandy MacKay [00:03:55] It would be great feedback. I mean, whatever you want to put it doesn't really matter to us as long as you know, let us know what you think. And I know we're not going to get that because we're delivering awesome value here and some great information and it's totally for free. But someone wants to rip into us then go for it.

Rob Break [00:04:13] Yeah. Yeah. Give us a reason why. I mean, it's one thing to say we suck, but if we suck, back it up with some evidence for sure.

Sandy MacKay [00:04:22] Yeah.

Rob Break [00:04:23] So, yeah, go over there and also click subscribe while you're there and you will be delivered the new podcasts as they come out, which now I think is going to well, I don't want we don't want to promise anything, but it looks like the frequency we're going to put them out is is going to be possibly on the 15th in the first of every month.

Sandy MacKay [00:04:43] Yeah, I think we it's kind of been you know, we started out on trying to do a 15th and hasn't lasted too long because we got some really good amount of listeners and everything. And people are kind of excited about it. And we're getting a lot of interest in people coming on the show figured, you know, what the heck we got to we got to get this info out there because there's a lot of great people and great value to be delivered. So if that's the case, we better we better deliver it more often. Right. So so that was basically.

Rob Break [00:05:15] Yeah. And that was just it, too. Like we didn't want to start telling people. Yeah. I mean it doesn't take long to start getting backed up and I mean if we have a guest on and tell them, oh yeah. You're going to be your show is going to come out in four months, maybe whatever they're trying to promote isn't necessarily well it'll still be relevant, I'm sure, but people would probably appreciate it if it came out a little bit quicker than that. So that was the reason for that as well. So I'm really looking forward to it, I love doing this, it's a lot of fun. I like talking to all of the guests and we get just as much, if not more, out of it than all of the listeners do, I would imagine. So it's just a lot of fun.

Sandy MacKay [00:05:57] Well, that's the thing, too, is that we've we're now on Episode six here. And, you know, the first few were kind of just getting going, you know, both of us. This is our first podcast experience. And we've kind of looked at it and said, man, this is a lot of fun. We got to it up a little bit and keep rolling because it's going great. So far, we've had some great speakers and we just, you know, why not? We're going to go for the first and the 15th now. So a lot of great stuff for people that keep checking in on me.

Rob Break [00:06:27] And like I mentioned on the last episode, this is a this seven freedom activators that we're going to go through here. This is a system that you came up with after I read it the first time after I went through it, I was I was really impressed with all of the free information that we're going to be given away with this report. And so we thought we should dedicate a whole podcast to it. And we're going to go a little more in-depth on each of these, if that's possible. There's so much information in here.

Sandy MacKay [00:06:57] There is a lot. And I know we're going to we're going to get through it, though, pretty well here. And I got to give a quick shout out to Kate, my girlfriend, Kate. She's someone who helped me a lot on this. And she's been managing properties stuff for a long time through her own job and all that. And she's, you know, a lot of experience in the managing side of it. And so she's definitely had some input into this report here, into these freedom activators. I can't really go forward without mentioning that. But, yeah, let's get let's get going here. Let's start let's start creating some freedom for people.

Rob Break [00:07:35] Yeah, that sounds good. Let's do it.

Sandy MacKay [00:07:38] All right. So let's get into the first one here. And and and the first one is. To narrow your focus, select a tenant profile and stick with it, so stick with that tenant profile, and I think that this is really going to be relevant for people who own properties already and also for people who maybe don't own property yet or are looking to get into it or are just looking to make a new purchase. It really starts before you buy the property. You want to know what kind of tenant profile you're looking for and that's going to also help you to narrow down the properties that you're looking at. Then that's something that people struggle with, is just selecting the right area or the right city, the right neighborhood and stuff to invest in. And when you really narrow it down and you find out the really specific tenant profile that you're looking for and you want to be dealing with, it helps you find the right property for you. So establishing a tenant profile before you ever even purchase the property is really very important. You can, of course, go back and and do this after you've already bought the property. But it's really, really, really useful to do this beforehand. It's something to consider when you're looking for a property. Are the the things around the property, so is there something like a university nearby, a hospital, a highway or highways and access to highways, public transit, restaurants, schools, high schools, elementary schools, that sort of thing? Libraries, waterfront, recreational facilities, things like this are really important features to look out for when you're trying to select your tenant profile and the property that you want to be purchasing. Because obviously, if you're looking at an area where there's a university, you're going to have a lot of students and you're going to get that type of profile a lot more easily than you would to have a property in the university area. And if, you know, if you're looking for older couples, you're not going to be able to get that is easily in a university area. Whereas if you're looking in an area that has, you know, lots of good restaurants around, maybe an elementary school nearby, that sort of thing, you're going to get more families. So just knowing your area is really key. And that's something I think it's important for. For those of you listening to to start with when you're selecting your profile. So, you know, you want to you want to think about your time and profile as in a few different ways, I guess, road. What do you think about that? Like, how do you select a time profile? Is that is this something you do? Do you look at the area pretty carefully?

Rob Break [00:10:26] See, one of the things that's important is because I'm mostly a duplex investor, so I can't generalize because I'm going to have a different profile for the people that are living upstairs. Is the people that are living downstairs being keep that consistent for my upper units and my lower units? I am pretty specific. Like I like to have a one bedroom in the bottom section because I just find that that usually a single person living in the lower unit helps with with everyone getting along. And then upstairs you usually get a family with some kids. But yeah, definitely it depends on the location as well too, because my one duplex has five bedrooms upstairs and it's close to you right downtown, which is the University of Ontario. So we have a student rental upstairs and then a one bedroom apartment downstairs with a couple. And that works there because, you know, a little bit of noise coming from downstairs isn't going to bug some students as much as it is going to bug a family.

Sandy MacKay [00:11:33] And so and so the other thing, too, is to look at maybe the the level of income that they bring in right now, that that's the important thing, especially with the duplexes that your your two tenants can get along. Right, because if you have tenants that aren't going to be able to get along, then you're going to have a lot more tenant, a tenant issues and you're going to have to go in there and mediate that in some way as the landlord. So I think duplexes especially are really important that you get the tenant profile down properly and they might not you might like you say, you might not have the same time profile on your upper floor as you would on your your basement apartment, if that's the way the house is set up. But as long as you have an idea of what your upper level tenants are going to be like and what your low level tenants are going to be like, then you're at least in going down the right path.

Rob Break [00:12:25] And I mean, basically, the only time that you're going to have to fill both places at the same time is when you first purchased the property and it's ready to be tenants. I mean, generally, they're not going to move out at the same time. I guess it could happen. But I have often gotten requests for the traits or the type of person that they would like to have in the lower unit from the people upstairs. And it's something, of course, that you could take into consideration. I mean, as long as it works for everybody, you're better off to try to at least fulfill the requests of who they'd like to have downstairs.

Sandy MacKay [00:13:03] Yeah, and I think so. I agree. I think it's something you need to consider and then not necessarily deliver one hundred percent if that's not going to be congruent with what you're thinking. But definitely you need to consider it. I think actually, you know, the main thing here is that you need to think about your property as a business. I think that's the first and foremost, maybe the most important thing here. And your tenants are almost like kind of like employees, right? They're part of your business. You want to have good employees in any business to keep your business going in the same way here. You want to have good tenants, to keep your property moving and appreciate and creating cash for you, all that good stuff. So it's important to at least consider what they think. Right. Just as you would consider a good employees recommendations in your business. You want to consider a good tenant recommendations in this scenario as well, right?

Rob Break [00:13:53] Yeah, absolutely. And that's worked out for me, because if you can do that, if it makes sense, then they're they're going to be much happier with your choice, too. So it's always a bonus.

Sandy MacKay [00:14:05] Yeah, and so I think the way I look at it is in the way I break it down to simplify it is there's three main levels. So you have an eight level tenant who is maybe someone or or a family who brings in a moderate to a higher level of income. And then there's a B level where they're low to moderate income levels and then and then C level where they're very low to low income levels. And just to generalize that in that way makes it pretty easy to select the profile. You want to maybe at least break it down to A, B and C and have an idea of what level, what level of tenant you want to have in your property. And then, you know, break it down even further than that, you can look at things like and break it down into categories like young professionals, young families. Young blue collar people, older families, older professionals, older blue collar type of people, and then there's also retirees who are unemployed or anything anymore. They're retired and they're, you know, whatever income level you want to add that to. So I think I think those are some categories that you can break it down into and get an idea of the kind of profile that you're looking for. Do you think that makes sense?

Rob Break [00:15:17] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, I agree with all that.

Sandy MacKay [00:15:21] Yeah. So I think that's a really important thing to start out with, is to know your tenant profile knows what you're looking for. And just set yourself up in the beginning by by identifying that profile, purchasing the property that goes along with that kind of profile and then just simply filling your property with those types of tenants. I think that's a great way to start. It's definitely. Yeah, and of course, by doing that, you're going to save yourself a lot of stress in the long run, you're going to just create a lot more freedom or activate a lot more freedom in your life. So that's number one. That's really a really good starting point. Let's go to number two, which is to use compelling advertising that attracts your perfect tenants. I think the main point on this one is that advertising and like finding tenants and showing the property, all this type of stuff is a lot of talking to prospective tenants, all that sort of stuff. It's it's the tasks, right? It's not exactly fun stuff. It's something that you have to do and it's something you want to just kind of get over with a lot of the time. And so writing compelling ads is a really, really key aspect here, because you're going to, in the end, find tenants a lot easier and you're going to find your preferred tenants a lot easier. So what I like to start out with here, when you're thinking about writing ads for your property and buy ads, I'm talking about classified ads. Things are going to put on Craigslist or Craigslist or what are some other websites from the EU's view it we use.

Rob Break [00:16:56] I just actually joined the call back up. Did you notice that?

Sandy MacKay [00:17:00] Oh, no, I Luzia.

Rob Break [00:17:01] Yeah. Has gone through that whole thing. Oh I just came back,

Sandy MacKay [00:17:06] didn't even notice I was in the zone kind of

Rob Break [00:17:09] places for students is another one that we use a lot. Right. And I mean some of the paid ones are worth. Are worth having a look at to the free ones will get you they won't get you your specific tenants that you're looking for necessarily, they're going to get you replies from everyone.

Sandy MacKay [00:17:29] And especially in the case of students, right? Absolutely. I know you are just telling me, why don't you just mentioned the type of type of replies you're getting from your student rental ads lately?

Rob Break [00:17:40] Well, they're all over the place. But when when you put them up on the free sites, you get mostly it doesn't matter what you write in the ad. I don't even think people read the ad, to be honest with you. They just see room and just call the number. So I would say eighty five percent or more of the calls that we're getting right now even are not students, just other other different scenarios. And you can probably guess what they are. Just name them all and you're getting someone from every walk. But you know, especially when you got students in there, I could easily have filled the place with non students. But that's not the point. Right? The point is, especially when you have a few students in there, they don't want they like to be surrounded by other students. So like you said, keep your profile and stick to it. That's what you do. And it can be tough. But so that's another reason why you would go to these paid sites where really it is only the students that have access to it and they're going to be the ones that are calling you through there. So that's really helpful. And if you don't have student rentals, I mean, Kajiji works great for me. I don't have any problem getting rid of. And I know you've had the same experience where when you're one of your apartments comes available, you can find a really good tenant. It doesn't take too long. They're lined up on the front lawn waiting to see it and they go really quickly. So Kajiji works great for that kind of thing.

Sandy MacKay [00:19:12] Yeah, totally. And just the other week we're filling a rental there and we had 28 people come just this just from Kajiji. We had eight people show up just from one simple add on Kajiji. And we ended up finding great tenants just through that. And I was like, you know, within within a week's time. So Kajiji is great. It's Agota for sure. But there's also those other sites that we mentioned there, too, that you can use. And and the important thing is like maybe the most important thing even is the headline of your ad, because that's the problem, too, is when you get people that don't even read the ad, they just read room eight hundred dollars a month. Let's see what it's all about. Let's apply or whatever. Right. And and that's something that we're going to maybe get into in the third activator is about screening your tenants properly. And I think actually that's perhaps one of the most important for these seven freedom activators is screening them. But to to even try and filter them a little bit before you get to that point, it is really important to write a good ad. Whether they're going to read it or not is something that's hard to control. But I think at least starting out with a great headline, you can hopefully filter out some of those people that aren't going to fit your your rental and writing something like two bed, one bath, desirable location is something like that of the headline is it's really kind of weak where instead of something simple like that, where you're going to get all sorts of people calling about it, you know, you might be better off trying something like a stunning two bedroom in the heart of the city. OK, now that kind of thing where you're maybe going to get that's going to definitely appeal to a lot more people. You want to get as many people as you can and then filter them anyways through through proper screening. And the headline is a definitely an important part of that.

Rob Break [00:21:11] The other thing I think I think there is a big difference between those two headlines. OK, one shows in my experience, you'll find that because I'm you know, I'm looking for properties, too. So I'll go on Cagayan Browse every once in a while at the rental ads and and that kind of thing. And the ones that no pictures, ones of the quick right up there, you know that that doesn't necessarily put too much effort into his property. And that might be a good one to maybe go after. You might be able to create some value by that one to fix it up. And and that may be a generalization, but I find it to be true.

Sandy MacKay [00:21:48] Yeah. Pictures, actually, you know that there is something I didn't mention, and that's huge. If you can't take the time to put a couple of pictures in your ad, then I mean, don't even write the ad because you really need a few photos in there. And I think you definitely need a good headline. Another good one that I'm just thinking about is something like peace and quiet at its finest with this three bedroom beauty, something like that or something like that is going to hopefully at least steer away some of the people that maybe the party animals, you know, that kind of thing, and people who are going to be robbing you of your freedom really in the long, long term. And I think peace and quiet is just something about that. Those two words are going to filter out some of the people you don't want. It may not always work that way, but I think that's going to at least be somewhat of a help. And bottom line is that you want to have a compelling headline, not just simple things like three bedroom townhouse or a two bedroom apartment. You know, you want to make it compelling and you want to write in some sort of words that's going to be able to filter out the people that you don't want, at the same time, bringing in as many of the preferred tenants that you do want. Right.

Rob Break [00:23:01] Yes, absolutely.

Sandy MacKay [00:23:03] And the other thing to mention there on the odds is, is the write up, so, of course, the headline is important and you also want the pictures in there and then you want to write the ad properly. You want to take your time with it. You don't want to just write up a. A bunch of gibberish about your property because you want to get it out there as quickly as you can, you know, take half an hour, even an hour to write up a good, compelling ad that is going to bring in your preferred tenants and hopefully filter out some of the people you don't want. You know, it's really important. I don't know. I don't I can't overstate that enough. I mean, people seem to not take their time reading the ads, and it's just it really is hurting them in the long run.

Rob Break [00:23:46] Well, now, when you say half an hour, jeez, that's a lot of time to write of Sandy. And every time you want to rent it out, you're going to have to spend that half an hour again and write it out again, aren't you?

Sandy MacKay [00:23:59] Well, yeah. And I can tell you're kind of playing devil's advocate there, but I mean, that's great.

Rob Break [00:24:04] Once you write it once spent half an hour, write it once it's saved in your computer, use it again, use it next time. You won't have to write it again just once. That's it. Exactly. Got it forever.

Sandy MacKay [00:24:14] So yeah I know you got it. And you know, even if you didn't save it on a computer half an hour, I mean I know everyone's busy in this and, and that, but half an hour spent right now as opposed four months down the road. And you're dealing with like fights between your tenants and or worst case scenario that your tenants not paying you for a few months. You know, what's more important, you might as well spend your half an hour writing great. Add in and getting the right people interested as opposed to, you know, having all that stress down the road. Right. So it's all how you look at it, you know, it's an investment, you know, you're investing 30 minutes or however long it takes to avoid dealing with stress down the road.

Rob Break [00:24:59] Another little trick that you can do that we've done lots of is just maybe borrow from other people's. That's the things that you like that sound good as long as they apply, of course, to yours. You know nothing wrong with that, right?

Sandy MacKay [00:25:14] Yeah. Borrow. Exactly. It's great. And it's like it's almost like copying success. Right. As long as you as long as you can find the good stuff and not use the crap that's out there, then that's going to work great. At the same time, you do want to also have some differences to write just so you can stand out a little bit, especially in a really competitive rental market. The other thing there, too, is the talk about the benefits of your place. So it's great to mention all the features that your property has. I think what I really like doing is adding a little bit of the benefit to and you have to be careful with this not to not to disobey some of the advertising laws and stuff that are out there. But I think it's really great if you just instead of saying just simply, you know, hardwood floors, three bedrooms, you know, things like that, I think it's great if you say instead of just hardwood floors, but you add in hardwood floors and a little bit of a benefit that that's going to bring the tenant. So maybe hardwood floors, which are great to show off to your friends and impress guests, something like that. You know, that's a lot more compelling than simply hardwood floors. Do you agree?

Rob Break [00:26:23] Yeah, absolutely shiny hardwood floors to blinds you when you walk in.

Sandy MacKay [00:26:29] Yeah, and, you know, you can really a great place to steal stuff from that is on MLS or on properties that are actually for sale, not for rent. I think they tend to do a lot better job than rental ads do for that and showing off some of the benefits and not, you know, talking about the features, but just saying what the benefit of that feature is as well. And yeah, with that, you've got some ideas to rate your perfect rental ad and apply or and show it off to your your preferred tenant.

Rob Break [00:27:06] Yeah, that was awesome. There's a lot of stuff there to think about and, you know, I guess if what you could probably do, which would help, is just download this report and then, well, it's too late now, but I guess we're going to be doing this in a couple of parts. So next time you can follow along and make little notes if you want to write on the report.

Sandy MacKay [00:27:30] Exactly. Yeah, I think looking at that time now, we're probably going to break this into two sections. So so this will be part one. And yeah, if you want to go ahead and download it, then definitely that would be a great idea. You can make some little notes beside the sections. What happened there, they lose again. Yeah, all right, that's OK, we'll keep going. You're going now, right?

Rob Break [00:27:49] Yep. So, yeah, definitely. I think we'll break this into maybe even three parts. We may as well get right into it and dig deep down. And if we're going to go through it, we we should probably do that. I think that'll be really beneficial to everybody listening.

Sandy MacKay [00:28:05] So let's get into the third freedom activity here. And it's. As I mentioned already, I think it's the most important one, in my opinion, especially of these first three. It's just absolutely critical and that is to screen your tenants like your life depends on it, because it really does. And you're your freedom depends on this so much in this business. As I mentioned before, tenants are essentially like employees for your business. And so if you think about it in a way that if you own your own business or if hypothetically you did own a business or if you're in a situation where you are are hiring people for your company or for a company you work for, you know, you would always screen potential employees, right? You would always interview them. You would always while hopefully you would check references and all that and try and find out a little bit about them before you actually bring them on as your employee. This is the same sort of thing in this business where you're not hiring, but you're finding proper tenants. You just you absolutely have to screen them as much as you can. I think what that starts out with is it simply filling out an application? People don't always do this. Landlords don't always seem to do as they will, a lot of times just verbally ask people, you know, a little bit about themselves or or whatever they do, but they won't get at every tenant, every prospective tenant to fill out an application. And I know you get applications for that, right, Rob?

Rob Break [00:29:49] Oh, yeah, and you know, what we should do is why don't we put I'll take one of my applications and I'll stick it up on the in the show notes and everyone can have a look at it. Just the simple questions that are on their will dig answers out of people that you didn't even like, that you wouldn't be expecting, you'll get a lot of information and sometimes you'll find out some things that you go, oh, wow, maybe I better reconsider this person who I thought was great when I met them and there might be a great person. Nobody's saying that they're not. It's just that you've decided on your profile and maybe some of the information in there is not congruent with that and doesn't work out. So that's a really good way to do it. Definitely always do an application. I mean, even if you're not going to do a credit check as well, do an application doesn't hurt and you'll you'll get a lot of information out of them. So that's the right questions. And we'll put that up there in the show notes. You can have a look at it. It's really helpful tool.

Sandy MacKay [00:30:57] Yeah, that's awesome. We should definitely rule out that in there. Great idea. And yeah, applications are just so, so important. I mean, yeah, like you say, just it can bring out so many things that you might not have known just in meeting them. You know, it's great to have a gut feeling. And I think there's something to be said for first impression and gut feeling that you get when speaking to someone. But it's not something you should be relying on totally. You know, you want to have them apply, go through the process. And just it's the same thing over and over again. You don't want to ever stray from it. You just you can. Create a process for yourself, a system, and just repeat it over and over and and part of that system needs to be you have them fill out an application.

Rob Break [00:31:43] Yeah, just as a little side note here, I had a like and I like to trust my gut to a certain extent as well. I do think that I do pretty well at that. But here's one example where well, it wasn't the application. It was actually my other tenant that saved me. But so I had a one bedroom basement apartment open up and a guy came in to have a look at it. And I talked to him and I had a good feeling about the guy. He presented himself well and knew he had a good job. And after he left, I talked to him for about a half an hour and everything seemed fine. I had given him an application, too, but after he left, my upstairs tenant said, You know what? I've seen him around my job site and he is well known for pushing some contraband. And so, you know, hey, that's not going to come out on the application. But all I'm saying is that you never know who you're getting by a half an hour or 20 minute conversation with the person the first time you meet them. So the application is going to help the best way I can.

Sandy MacKay [00:32:48] Absolutely. I mean, just on that gut feeling thing, there's one thing I wanted to just mention, because I think it's pretty important here, too, is when you are speaking with someone, if they seem to be kind of maybe a bit to know and this is something that won't probably show up on an application either. But if they sound a bit too knowledgeable on tenants rights and tenants issues with the landlord tenant board, things like that, I think that's always maybe a bit of a red flag you might not want. You certainly want don't want professional tenants is not something I think that is extremely common, but it is definitely out there. And probably the last thing you ever want to be dealing with in a property in a tenant is that, you know, when you hear people talking about, you know, if they just seem too knowledgeable in that stuff, it's always a red flag. I think in my opinion,

Rob Break [00:33:44] you can you can always throw that out there. You can always say, have you ever you ever had a bad landlord? Have you ever had to go to the landlord tenant board for any reason? And they'll they'll spill their guts. People love to tell you about the hardships. And I've read I've read ads before where people are applying for or looking for apartments. And, you know, they'll say the last landlord screwed me, have no money, need apartment now, like, you know, and people will tell you their stories about their landlords if you ask them. Some people love to. So you can find out a lot that way, too. Yes, definitely.

Sandy MacKay [00:34:26] Yeah. And I think if you're hearing and again, it's the same way is if you're hiring a new employee or something, if you're a new employee is sitting there in front of you and they're like complaining about their old boss or their old company over and over again. It's the same way, and that's, you know, if you hear your perspective, tenants sitting there complaining about their old landlord and this, that and all these issues, you know, that's a big red flag, I think, because that means there's, you know. Yeah, maybe it was their landlords fault. Maybe they weren't good landlords, but. In some way, there's probably some sort of responsibility of the tenant there, and they probably have some sort of a history of just not being very cooperative, you know, it's possible.

Rob Break [00:35:11] Yeah, for sure. Definitely get that application. I don't know if we could drive anyone's head any more than that.

Sandy MacKay [00:35:18] Exactly. Yeah. Get the gut feeling, but get the application filled out no matter what. And and then the next part of it is to actually, you know, read the application and and follow up on things and call references, write, call, check in with their company that they work for, you know, make sure they're employed there and just. Yeah, check up on the references, check up on old landlords, things like that, make sure everything is is been filled out honestly, because I think I think if it's and that's the most easy way to just get rid of a tenant is to evict if you check up on something in their application and it's not been filled out honestly, then in my opinion, I would just cut them right there. I wouldn't say no right away because, you know, there's really no you shouldn't have any time for dishonesty there if they're going to try and sneak something by you. On the application that they're going to sneak stuff by over and over again.

Rob Break [00:36:18] Yeah, and and if somebody there's a couple of dead giveaways, too, if somebody has personal references, if you're. Well, I don't even know how to say this. I guess if somebody is personal reference, you know, what's your relationship to this personal best friend and for for the last 15 years? Well, you don't even really need to call that person. You know exactly what they're going to say. Mm hmm. But definitely employers. I've had some give me teachers. That's good. I've I've called teachers.

Sandy MacKay [00:36:53] Yep. Teachers will be good. There's one story here that I wrote about in the report of a friend who was telling us the story of of a personal reference. Who? I can't remember exactly what they put, what their relationship was on their application, but, you know, she called up this reference and found out that the reference was actually a police officer, which is normally pretty good. Right. That would be a pretty decent reference. And she called them up and the police officer had actually arrested this guy in the past and was totally pissed off to hear about this guy actually being even free. You know, he thought he was supposed to be in jail and just had horrible things to say about the guy. I don't know in that situation, what this tenant was thinking with this prospective tenant was thinking and using that person as a reference. You know, if it was like a some sort of a joke or something.

Rob Break [00:37:52] But a game, I guess, some kind of game.

Sandy MacKay [00:37:56] Right. Yeah, but I mean, imagine if they were to slip that past you, they basically own you from that point. Yeah, in their mind they're just thinking, wow, I got that pass. Pass them. I can get away with anything in this place.

Rob Break [00:38:10] Yes, exactly. And there's not a whole lot of tenants like that, I wouldn't say, but some of them are professionals. Dacos played a game, though, for sure.

Sandy MacKay [00:38:21] Yeah, that's some sort of a game. And yeah, I call the references and that's the thing, too, is, as I kind of just said there, but when you do call the references or when you don't call or do call that that tenant's going to know. Right. They're going to know. Their friends are going to tell them that you called. Right. Or they're. You know, depending on their relationship, but they're probably going to figure it out somehow, whether you call it or not. And so it's really important to follow through if you say you're going to call her references and do it. You know, if you say we're going to check up on their employment status, then do it, and that just shows what kind of a landlord landlord you are, right? It shows honesty from your part and just just sets everything out properly at the beginning. Right.

Rob Break [00:39:06] Yeah, why make them go through the work if you're not going to check them?

Sandy MacKay [00:39:09] Yeah, exactly. And I think once you've sorted through that part of it, once you've sorted through the applications, hopefully you have. You know, multiple applications and you can actually have some ability to choose the time you want. Then the next step is, is really to do a credit check, and I would say that this step is maybe not. Well, I don't know whether in your opinion, do you think it's crucial that they do this every time?

Rob Break [00:39:38] No. I don't, but there are some good companies out there that can do that for you. It's not going to it's not going to affect their credit score having it checked, but it never hurts, I guess. But I don't always do it.

Sandy MacKay [00:39:57] Yeah, it's something like it's a final step, right, if if you have two amazing looking applicants and you're having trouble to decide between them, maybe it could be a deciding factor. I mean, it does it does give you some sort of an idea on their history, which is always nice to know. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily deny someone as a tenant they are based solely on their credit check, but it's always good to know. I mean, an applicant can look perfect on paper, have great references, have a great job all this, but just have a horrible track record financially. Right. And, you know, maybe that that maybe that doesn't mean that they're missing rent payments. But it's nice to have some sort of an idea what their history is like, I guess, and if there's any thing that stands out, you know, if if it's if they've had any serious trouble in the past, then it's nice to just be aware of that, I think. And it can help you maybe down the road. You know, if someone is coming to you on the 25th of a month and they're saying to you, you know, I'm I'm going to be a week late on my rent next month or something, and you know, that they've had like they have amazing credit history, then maybe you can be a bit lenient with that. Whereas someone coming to you on the 25th of month saying they're going to be late and you know that they are terrible financially and have a terrible track record. You're going to be a lot less likely to let something like that slide, right?

Rob Break [00:41:25] Yeah, well, when you say lenient, you should always file the proper paperwork. I would say when they're late, get the ball rolling. Doesn't necessarily lead to a conviction, but. But, yeah, as far as giving them a hard time or whatever. Yeah. I suppose you could you could let it let it go for a little while. I have had good tenants do that every once in a while and always come back and pay. So yes, you can do that.

Sandy MacKay [00:41:56] Totally, I you should I agree, you should always file that anyways, and maybe it's only just for your own mind, right? Just your own sense of security and stuff to know that. You like to know that that Saddam maybe is going to pay or maybe not going to pay. It's nice to just have an idea of their history.

Rob Break [00:42:15] Yeah, and I know the credit check is good, but I mean, let's be honest. If you're doing a Rentoul deal, generally you're going to your tenants are the ones that don't have good credit. That doesn't. And obviously, if you're doing something like that, you realize that there are still great tenants out there who don't necessarily have good credit. So it's not the deciding factor. But I guess it it doesn't hurt if if there's maybe some kind of question in your head about them, then go ahead and get it done.

Sandy MacKay [00:42:51] Yeah, it's an add on thing for sure, and there's a great resource if people are looking for some place to check out, you know, to do credit checks from. I would recommend checking out tenant verification, dotcom, good little resource there for people to do credit checks, need to become a member there. But it's quite straightforward. And once you remember, it's a lot easier and you can just do it over and over again. I think it's reasonably cheap for each credit check. And really, if you're doing it properly, you should only be doing one or two credit checks each time you're looking for a tenant. So you're not going to be doing them all that often. But definitely that's a good step. And the other thing that we should talk about that is a good, good way to screen tenants here is to actually interview them properly and interview them if it's ever possible to interview them in their current place where they live and their current residence. You know, if you can ever find a way to do that, you're going to find out all you need to know about them, right. And you can you can get an idea of what they're living like currently and what that basically is going to show you what they're going to live like at your place. So I think that's that's cool. I never

Rob Break [00:44:03] done that. But that's so. Well, it certainly would show you how they live now. So I can see how that would I would be really, really helpful. Maybe if there's a reason to do so, I could go pick up applications there, something and.

Sandy MacKay [00:44:20] Well, it's tough. It's tough to do. It's it's not like something you're going to be doing every time, but whenever possible. I think it's just there's no better way to find out what kind of time you're going to get them by doing that. And, you know, it's probably in this situation where you're deciding between two or three of them or something, you know, and there all seem good and everything. And you can't point out a reason to pick one over the other. That's something that could easily decide it for you. And so, you know, there's so much there there's so much in screening your tenants. And it's just like right in the ad, you know, it's a lot of work to do it properly. Right. But. It's just it's an investment every time it's an investment in in in your property, it's it's putting the time into something useful that's going to save you a lot of stress and time down the road. So it's just crucial that people do this.

Rob Break [00:45:17] Yeah, this is a business. People should treat it that way for sure. So I guess that about wraps it up for this episode. And we're going to come back with freedom activator number for the next time we do. This might not be the next episode, but I think it's going to you know, this is really helpful. There's a whole bunch of things in here that I've never even considered before as well. So when we come back and we do four or five and six, I would expect the same thing to be true.

Sandy MacKay [00:45:47] There is so much there's just so much we can talk about.

Rob Break [00:45:52] How long did it take you to write this?

Sandy MacKay [00:45:55] That's a tough question. I don't even know, you know, it took me I've worked on it for, I guess I should say, a couple of months. I don't I didn't necessarily work on it every day, but I was, you know, adding to it slowly and and building it up, also asking different people what they thought about certain things. Right. I probably asked you about, you know, your thoughts on different different aspects of the support. You might not even know that I was asking you about it. But, you know, just to get other people's opinions, because there's people landlords do so many different things. Right. And there's so many different outlooks and opinions on this stuff. I wanted to get a real good sense of of what is really right, because I don't even, you know, some things that I'm telling you to do here. I mean, I might not even be 100 percent right on it, but, you know, I'm showing what has worked for others in the past. And and that's what I wanted this report to be all about.

Rob Break [00:46:51] Yeah, exactly. It's what you do, what others that you know do. Everything in here is not an exact straightforward, you know, follow this line and everything's going to be perfect. But there's a lot of great advice. Totally.

Sandy MacKay [00:47:07] Yep, so next time we're going to come back, like you say, four or five, six, I think we might have to split this into three episodes, right? A lot a lot to take in. But I think I think what everyone should be doing is really downloading this report and then adding to it if you need to, adding some side notes and really taking this seriously, because if you want to do this properly, you want to invest in a way that you're not working and creating a new job for yourself, you want to actually have some freedom, then it's really important they follow these things.

Rob Break [00:47:39] And if you agree with something in here or don't, or if there's something that you feel should be added, feel free to let us know what that is. Go on to break through our podcasts and just leave a comment on this episode for for your thoughts. Let us know what you think.

Sandy MacKay [00:47:58] Definitely. Give us some feedback, questions, comments, whatever the heck is on your mind, and we'll hopefully address it on the show, OK?

Rob Break [00:48:07] And we will see you all on the next episode of Breakthrough Ariah podcast.

Sandy MacKay [00:48:12] Well, can't wait.

Rob Break [00:48:31] No. Voice making noise out there distracting me, just give me a sec.

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