Table of Contents
Rob Break [00:00:32] Good morning and welcome back again, everybody, thank you for joining us again today. I think you’ll be very, very happy that you did once you listen to our guest, our fantastic guests that we have lined up for you guys today. And oh man, it’s going to be a good one here with me again, as always, is Sandy MacKay. How are you?
Sandy Mackay [00:00:53] Yeah, yeah, I agree. We’re going to be awesome show and excited for it and happy to be here again.
Rob Break [00:00:58] Sandy How are things going? You gearing up for Christmas? We’re only a couple of days away
Sandy Mackay [00:01:02] this time of recording a couple days away for Christmas. You know, I don’t know where we’re. Down with all the planning for next year, investment business wise, et cetera, so we’re kind of just wrapping things up and I’m looking forward to a break and going away, going on a vacation in the next week. So we’re going to be in the Caribbean and on a cruise, hopefully. Well, we’re like five days away from leaving, so I think it’s going to happen.
Rob Break [00:01:31] Yeah, yeah. Where there’s a will, there’s a way, though, Sandy, I’ll tell you that. Yeah, no, that’s good to hear. And like you were saying before we started the recording, here it. It has been a little bit slower the past week than I was expecting as well to so
Sandy Mackay [00:01:48] far slower, slower life. And all that stuff means potentially some decent deals out there for investors because anytime they have the world’s checked out or they’re focused on other things, that means someone out there. It is the seller and there’s a Dubeau property for some reason. And maybe there’s opportunities.
Rob Break [00:02:05] There you go. There’s always opportunities right now. It’s got to dig for them. Everyone listening knows the drill. Go over to our website Breakthrough RBI podcast dossier. There you can listen to all of the past episodes that we’ve done on coming up to eight years now. Sandy, I believe the next one we record will be eight years. Man who? What a ride
Sandy Mackay [00:02:28] like ancient and podcasting world
Rob Break [00:02:31] ancients. Yeah, I believe so. We’re what you call OG is now
Sandy Mackay [00:02:35] I get to week. I hear that all the time. I’m sure we both are. You guys are the OGS of this space. Yeah, in Canada, I suppose.
Rob Break [00:02:43] Yeah, but it’s been fun and we’re going to keep going. No, no, no plans to retire anytime soon from the podcasting world where it Sandy.
Sandy Mackay [00:02:52] We’re actually going to like we’re actually going to like, get some new energy and then jump started again, I think, and then do some cool stuff in the new in the twentieth twenty two and beyond. So yeah, yeah, excited about that.
Rob Break [00:03:05] Well, speaking of new energy, it would really help out. And if you guys know some people who would be interested in hearing this show, go over to iTunes, leave us a rating and review. You know, let more people learn about this stuff, get them in on this energy that we’ve got going here and help them learn on how they can do what we’ve been doing with all of our guests have been doing, you know, for the past eight years and getting into this real estate investing when, you know, sometimes people think, Oh, the ship has sailed, you know, depending on what I find a lot is that people who are just coming into the space, they don’t know any different. So they go, OK, there’s opportunities here. But those people that have been in it for a while, they start to get a little bit stale and they think, OK, things have changed since I started. Things are not the same as they were. I can’t find the deals that I used to be able to find, and they sort of start to talk themselves out of the whole idea and start to think, OK, maybe, you know, maybe, maybe it’s time for me to move on. Or maybe I’ve done all I can do here. But you know, we’re going to talk to Paul soon here, and he’s going to tell us how to get some great deals even in the market that we’re in, which is absolutely insane. But man, I’m telling you, I’m all over the place today. The point was gone leave us a review and let some other people learn about the show. And I forgot to mention when you’re over on our website, download our free gift Sandy
Sandy Mackay [00:04:38] the ultimate strategy for dealing with the real estate and definitely do that and get on our list so you never miss out on our show or anything else we got going on, especially now because we’re doing some cool stuff into the new year with some probably be hearing from us a lot more, a lot more activity and a lot more opportunities to get involved and really learn and grow your real estate investment business. Rob, we bypassed you a bit, too. I want to know what you got going on there. You were starting to tell us a bit about what you’re up to. And then and then we said we got to start recording this because, you know, it wasn’t really much.
Rob Break [00:05:12] I mean, there’s opportunities everywhere here. I think that the thing is that they’re very capital intensive flip opportunities for the most part and the rewards are great. But the investment that is involved in getting into it is, is, is pretty high as well. So I mean, if anyone has just gobbed of money and they’re and they’re interested in making more, I mean, we’ve got I see phenomenal flip opportunities everywhere around here where I am in this tiny little community called Surfside in Costa Rica, which is right by play a flamingo where they’re building a new marina. It’s almost complete the Gold Coast and down through tamarind, which is only about a half an hour away from where I am, is just exploding. So there’s a lot of properties that have been neglected over the years, and we see just fantastic opportunity to make literally hundreds of thousands of U.S. dollars off of flips here. So the thing is just coming in with the capital that it takes to purchase these places because there’s not really much in the way of financing. Around here, what you’re looking at, typically, is stuff that maybe you can get a little bit of seller financing on for a couple of years, which is good when you’re planning to flip on that kind of thing, but. But you know, that’s if that’s available. So. And I’d say it is like a lot of the time, but sometimes you got to come with the whole purchase price in cash, so it can be a little bit tricky.
Sandy Mackay [00:06:55] But that’s why it’s probably a big opportunity. There’s a little more there’s a little more to get involved, but hundreds of hundreds of thousands sounds a lot better than a general flip in southern Ontario. Or at least right now, it’s tough to make that type of money unless you’re doing, I guess, putting a lot more money into something bigger. But the typical single family small first time buyer type homes are tough to make much of a spread on those right now unless you really get lucky with the appreciation.
Rob Break [00:07:22] Yeah, I’m going to break it down. I’ll give you a rough estimate of the opportunities that are here. So something that’s between, let’s say, three and four hundred thousand. You know, you come in with all that cash and that’s us dollars. So three to $400000 cash investment plus, let’s say, 50 to 75 to do the rentals and then approximately $100000 profit on the sale of the place. So those are the kind of numbers that we’re looking at,
Sandy Mackay [00:07:57] like a dry number in a Durham region or a Hamilton or anywhere in southern Ontario. Is there anywhere in Ontario for that matter? Yeah, I’ll be there, probably. I mean, if you made 20 grand on that, you’d probably be happy.
Rob Break [00:08:09] The difference is the financing round. The difference is the financing and we can get private money here too, but it’s expensive as well. So on something like what I was just talking about private money for, let’s say half of that is going to cost like thirty k something around there. So I mean, it still leaves lots of meat on the bone, but it’s just a matter of, you know, bringing that, bringing that cash go.
Sandy Mackay [00:08:38] Well, that’s a Costa Rica’s a hotspot for Canadians or especially the investment community. I keep hearing about people traveling there, but also exploring living there and what those opportunities look like. So it seems to be a hotbed for this stuff right now.
Rob Break [00:08:50] I’ve met up with so many people that I’ve known from real estate groups around here, you know, just randomly, Hey, are you in this area? Yeah, I happen to be in this area. Let’s meet up. So we’ll meet up at a beach restaurant somewhere and have a beer, and it’s been a lot of fun. You know, at least a handful of people that I’ve known from Ontario, so it’s been cool.
Sandy Mackay [00:09:14] Well, I guess time or what else do we got? What else we got to talk about?
Rob Break [00:09:18] Well, I don’t know. You didn’t say much.
Sandy Mackay [00:09:22] I’m going on a cruise next week. That’s where my mind’s up. I got five days here. Holidays, Christmas, etc. And then not nothing to do with real estate, actually for a couple of weeks or week and a half.
Rob Break [00:09:34] I figured you’d be on the cruise, just planning, planning for next year.
Sandy Mackay [00:09:38] I don’t think so. Maybe I’d like I would have been doing that and not this time.
Rob Break [00:09:41] Yeah, you got to let go every now and then, right? Yeah. Pools and beaches for you next week. Sounds good.
Sandy Mackay [00:09:48] That was great. But right now I’m focused here. I want to learn about what Paul’s got going on and all those seven things he’s doing. So, yeah, yeah.
Rob Break [00:09:56] Well, I’m excited to have him on to. I’ve known Paul for a really long time and this is the first time we’re going to get to talk to him in this forum, so I’m super pumped. So without further ado, Paul Pannu’s welcome.
Paul Punnoose [00:10:08] Thanks for having me, guys. Excited to be here. Excited to be with the OGS.
Rob Break [00:10:14] Thanks, man. Well, you’re an OG yourself when it comes to real estate investing. We’re going to get into that now, but I think Sandy has got a little bit of a bio for you. The other,
Sandy Mackay [00:10:24] yeah, let’s intro. You probably give some give the listeners some background here. And Paul’s a father, husband, world traveler, educator, real estate investor and coach. And you realize the power of real estate when he and his wife traveled the world for 14 months and discovered they made 20 K and covered the cost of their trip through the appreciation of just one of their rental properties, having completed duplex conversions, flips, sales and hotels. He’s decided to focus on growing his portfolio, working more as the wholesale flip projects and spending more time with the son. And he’s looking to connect with as many likeminded real estate investors as possible this year or in the upcoming years. So we’ll talk a lot more about him and his stories and how you can reach out to connect with them as we go. But yeah, I think that’s that sums it up briefly. So a lot more. But I look forward to learning more about your story. Hey, investors, are you looking for the best mortgage lender on your upcoming Flip or Bear project? Our partners at Calvert Home Mortgage are Burr and Flip experts. They’re amazing to work with and truly understand your business. They only required 20 K down, no appraisals needed in most instances and can fun quick. I’ve seen them close deals within 24 hours of receiving the request. We’re offering Cover Home Mortgages Free Flip Burger Analyzer tool to run our numbers on deals. You can find it in the podcast description below. Save $500 after your next deal with COVID Home Mortgages When you mentioned our referral code, break through podcast terms and conditions apply.
Paul Punnoose [00:11:54] Fishermen, for sure.
Rob Break [00:11:56] Welcome, Paul. So let’s jump right in and let’s talk about how and maybe when you got started in real estate investing.
Paul Punnoose [00:12:04] Yes, I think we started all in the same place. It sounds like right.
Rob Break [00:12:08] All three of us, pretty much.
Paul Punnoose [00:12:10] Yeah, at that their. I think when I was when I started there, I didn’t understand anything about real estate. I was pretty young when I was coming to that, those meetings and just kept going to them because I was like, Hey, I got to surround myself with these types of people if I want to kind of grow. You know, I ended up buying my first rental property and 2012 moved into it and renovated it and renovated it ourselves. We’ve just learned through YouTube, tried to figure out how to how we could eventually speak to contractors and understand what they were actually doing. And then, you know, I moved out of that six months later and in my parents basement again and rented it out was only cash like maybe a couple hundred bucks on. And it was a single family. And basically, we took a year off. We traveled like my like my introduction travels for like 14 months backpacking around the world, and we came back and we realized that our property had appreciated by 100000. And we spent about 80 on our trip and we’re like, Oh my God, this is crazy. It was like the power of real estate just allowed us to travel the world, do whatever we wanted, and we made money technically. So that’s when we kind of went all in. My wife had invested in pre-construction condos, so we were renting those out as well. And then we thought about what’s the best way to do this? So hired Quinn de Souza as our coach at that time. I think both of you have been through that coaching program as well. Is that right?
Rob Break [00:13:54] Absolutely. Good friend of the show, Quentin, of course. Everybody who listens and knows about Clinton. Yeah, and absolutely like that was as soon as I heard about that course, we’re going to talk about this a little more later. But as soon as I heard about that course, you know, I was all in. Absolutely fantastic. Changed everything for me.
Paul Punnoose [00:14:17] Exactly. Change changed my entire life, too. So we ended up liquidating the condos because we realized it wasn’t really helping us towards our goals. And then we started getting into a bunch of duplex conversions, both off market and our market deals. I think what actually one of the on market deals came from for me, Rob maybe five or six years ago, right? Can’t remember.
Rob Break [00:14:39] I remember
Paul Punnoose [00:14:40] that.
Rob Break [00:14:41] Yeah, yeah. So you know what? Each one of those is like a funny story, because I believe like that was a deal that fell through. Yeah. And you jumped in and said, this is an opportunity that, yeah, I wouldn’t mind taking over.
Paul Punnoose [00:14:54] So yeah, yeah, if I remember correctly, like I didn’t have to negotiate and have to do anything. It was more like, Hey, one of your clients fell through. I’m just going to pick up where they left off because it’s a great deal.
Rob Break [00:15:09] Yeah, that was good. And it has that done for you, is that one, OK? It’s done well for you so far.
Paul Punnoose [00:15:15] Yeah, that one just got refinanced and it got appraised for it, got appraised for, like 1890. But you know, these things are now selling close to a million. It’s not over for the legal duplexes in Oshawa, and I think I bought it at four sixty. Right, so pretty sweet. Yeah. So then we basically went all in and just started flipping, adding buying holds to our portfolio. Any joint venture partners and just kind of really like exploring and having fun with real estate, you know? So we did that with the coaching program. And then, yeah, it was pretty crazy. The pandemic hit, obviously, and I hadn’t found any really good deals for a while. So I started doing my own marketing to try and find some, some deals online and offline marketing. We I’m a teacher during the day, but when the pandemic hit, I was like, You know what? My particular position at school was canceled. I have a bit of a unique position there, and I decided, Hey, I’m just going to take the year off. And if any time’s a good time to try and take a year off, this would probably be the time. So I try to go at it as a full time real estate investor and I invested heavily into my marketing and we had a life changing year. I know it was a difficult year for a lot of people, but in terms of real estate, this was one of our best years. You know, we were able to be flipped like three properties. We wholesale 16 and we added three more properties to our buy and hold portfolio. So we’re really happy with how it went and just like understood how real estate was able to like leverage of this or how we were able to leverage real estate to make a better life for me and my family. So we’re super happy.
Rob Break [00:17:24] OK, man, we have really like skimmed over a lot in a very short time here, so I don’t know Sandy what’s one of the big things we need to dig into here and get a little more detail on?
Sandy Mackay [00:17:39] I mean, there’s lots there. I want to learn about how you or how you find some of these properties, for sure, I think. Let’s talk about some stuff about the pandemic a little bit. You talked to a little bit briefly on that, but in any other way that it’s affected your business strategies going forward. And do you see a changing anything? Going into the future and how are you going to approach this business?
Paul Punnoose [00:18:01] You know, it actually forced us. I mean, the pandemic gave us the opportunity to attempt real estate investing full time. Right. And so I think it changed our perspective on, Hey, we can make this work and we can be probably more successful doing this than my day job. So it kind of gave us that perspective. I think once you have that mindset where you’re ready to accept more opportunities, you’re able to capitalize. But you know, in terms of my business and investing, yeah. For me, we focused on fighting off market deals. And that’s exactly where I’m pushing. I’m going to be pushing a lot more in the future to acquire more of these deals. I do a lot of online and offline marketing, and I connect with sellers, tons of sellers, but probably too, like over 200 250 people looking to sell their place this year to get that number of deals done. As you probably know that.
Rob Break [00:19:05] So I’d say those are really actually exceptional numbers. If you’re only talking to two hundred and being able to do like 20 deals off of that, that’s pretty impressive.
Sandy Mackay [00:19:17] I think we probably have sort of qualified two hundred or somewhere right there. Yeah, not that random cold call people.
Paul Punnoose [00:19:24] No, no, no, no. These are not random scores, right? These are people that were actually working to sell their place, right?
Rob Break [00:19:30] Yeah. I still think that’s pretty impressive. It is good.
Sandy Mackay [00:19:33] Yeah. What’s here? How do you find that? Yeah. How do you find those properties that a lot of people, especially during the pandemic, people are like, I don’t know, there’s no inventory everywhere? I can’t find anything we’re talking about. This is the start almost like people almost just throwing their hands up, saying, I can’t find anything anymore. It’s like wave and wave and try. It’s nothing. There’s no inventory. We keep hearing that how we always went the opposite way or like, I’m going to find more inventory or more off market, more opportunities. How what does that actually look like? How do you do that?
Paul Punnoose [00:20:06] Yeah. I mean, like I would say, 90 percent of people that sell their properties on the market are looking for a transaction like a conventional way of selling their property. The I would say, the 10 percent that I kind of focus in on are the people that have other reasons to sell their property. They’re either going through a rough time or they just want a quick, convenient transaction, or they don’t want a bunch of people walking through their house and ruining their entire daily routine. So, you know, a lot of people, not a lot, but there are some people that are willing to give up some of the equity in their property and walk away from the property. That is now a problem for them. And that’s where I basically focus. So those are where those are the opportunities, I’ve been able to find and just working on Win-Win situations with these sellers, right? Like, it’s a little bit different when properties are on the market, you know, there’s tons of tons of eyes on them, as you guys know. But that being said, like we picked up a property with Rob team in January in Peterborough and it was on the market and it was a great deal. Right. So there’s opportunities everywhere. It’s just you have to be consistently looking and consistently making offers. Mm-Hmm.
Rob Break [00:21:33] And let’s talk a little bit about your marketing and what kind of marketing you’re doing to get these that amount of calls.
Paul Punnoose [00:21:39] Yeah. So I partner with people that are doing fliers, right? So there’s a bunch of like fire campaigns. But then I also do a lot of online marketing via Google Pay per click Facebook ads, a bunch of different campaigns, and we just kind of see what works, what doesn’t. And we push more money into marketing channels that work best for us or that have higher conversion rates.
Sandy Mackay [00:22:10] What do you find better online or like the physical flier of that type of stuff? We have metrics around that at all.
Paul Punnoose [00:22:17] Yeah. So the offline marketing cost per lead is a lot less like a lot less. It’s just the conversion is a little bit more challenging. The online for me has worked out a lot better, but it has. It’s a lot more expensive. So it’s kind of like flipping properties out in Costa Rica. It’s a lot of capital, but a very high rewards. So I have personally had better experience. I would say with the first six or seven months of the year, I’m doing online campaigns, but I do network with a bunch of other wholesalers who exclusively do offline marketing and have been crushing it, right. So I think when it comes down to finding discounted properties, it comes down to focusing on marketing channels that you can succeed at. Right.
Sandy Mackay [00:23:16] Then someone at minimal or no funds basically to put towards put towards finding deals. What do you think the best strategy would be for them? Would they be better off, better served to go more like off, offline, you know, walking streets, dropping fliers, that sort of thing or online sounds like it’s a little more than more expensive to play in, right?
Paul Punnoose [00:23:40] Yeah, for sure. Online is crazy and there’s a big there’s big wholesale companies right there that have pretty deep pockets that you’ll be competing against, right? And so for someone looking to get started to try and get their own deals, offline marketing probably is your best channel. You know, door knocking, driving for dollars, they call it where you, you know, just driving around neighborhoods looking for properties that might need a little bit more TLC. And I would say, doing some flier campaigns. That’s probably going to be the best use of your funds. The only thing is you can’t really just do it once with all of these murky channels. You got it. You got to kind of be a little bit more consistent. So at least like once every two or three months, you better hit the same neighborhood.
Rob Break [00:24:28] You know, it was always a lot of fun for me because I really enjoyed driving for dollars back in the day. That was my thing. And I mean, when you’ve got no money, you can still do that. You know that that cost virtually nothing to throw.
Sandy Mackay [00:24:44] Gas is expensive, but yeah, that’s
Rob Break [00:24:47] a walk around the neighborhood. Then why don’t you take a bus to the other end of town? I don’t know what, but, but I mean, really like the cost of the fliers. If you handwrite a letter, throw it into the photocopier. Printed off a bunch of times and then just walk around and look for distressed properties. You know, that’s always fun when you actually find something that you go, Oh man, oh, that would be a crazy like that. That looks like an opportunity right there. That’s always fun. It’s exciting to see those opportunities like right in front of you, for sure.
Paul Punnoose [00:25:23] And I think even for those people that don’t want to spend a lot of money, it’s just talking to you, a bunch of people. I like networking with your current network. Like here, all of my neighbors know what I do. And you know, that was actually turned out to lead, right? They’ll be like, Hey, Paul, like, you know, there’s unfortunately someone passed away in the neighborhood and there’s a house like, you know, just for that kind of a tip. I can go talk to whoever I need to talk to you to see if, Hey, is this a potential deal for us?
Rob Break [00:25:53] Where do you live, Paul?
Paul Punnoose [00:25:55] Sorry. Where do you live in Whitby?
Rob Break [00:25:59] with the Ontario Nice with
Paul Punnoose [00:26:00] the A.
Sandy Mackay [00:26:03] Are we going to yourself as you got to put yourself out? There are. You can’t, you can’t. You can’t sit at home in the corner and expect to have deals come and see you. You have to go out and. I guess I shouldn’t say you have to, but it’s a heck of a lot easier if you’re going to if you put yourself out there a little bit and people know what you’re doing, right? I’ll go to networking events, all that sort of thing. It’s not a very expensive to do, and it’s going to bring a lot more attention to you and obviously result in some opportunities. Everyone on your street knowing what you’re doing, everyone in your world knows you’re doing. I mean, the opportunities, the social media and everything around that too right now are huge and free, essentially if you want to be right.
Paul Punnoose [00:26:43] And also just connecting with realtors like you guys, right? Just saying, Hey, like I’m an investor, I’m looking for this kind of a deal. If anything pops up, I can close. You know, I do what I say I’m going to do and just being on that radar, right? So, you know, for example, I’ve closed two properties with Rob and Rob and his team, you know, I’m sure that if another deal kind of popped up and they were looking for someone to close, but I’d probably do it right if the numbers kind of made sense.
Rob Break [00:27:11] I’ve jumped on deals like that myself to that where for whatever reason, the client of mine couldn’t, couldn’t do it. I’m like, OK, this is a great this is a great place. I’ll jump in on it. Yeah. So aside from, I think you said and we’ll talk about this too. But aside from, I think you said 16 wholesale deals. Yeah. And last year, whatever, 16 or 17. Yeah, aside from those, which is super impressive. So we’ll get back to that. I think you said you flipped three and kept three and did one other like hotel deal or something like that. How do you finance all of those deals?
Paul Punnoose [00:27:53] Yeah. So we’ve been using private financing private lenders to kind of help us finance flips. You know, we’ve been approached by friends and other people that have been interested in partnering on flips. But I think if people really analyze the numbers, you’re better off just doing private funds on flips, right? Like partnering on flips don’t really make that sense. But on the buy and hold, we were happy to bring on joint venture partners to actually keep those in our portfolio right. And the way we see it too is like, we’re helping. We’re helping people. And even on the private purchasing, we’re helping sellers that are going through maybe a tough situation. We’re helping our investors change their lives a little bit and we’re helping ourselves with our growing our portfolio. You know, so from that regards, we’re happy to kind of scale with joint venture partners. I know there’s a lot of theirs mixed emotions about joint venture partners online. And you know, I think if you want to continue to grow, partnering and helping other people is an effective way to do it.
Rob Break [00:29:09] So let me ask you something, then on the flip side, are these properties that are so rundown that you can’t get insurance or you’ve got to buy them cash is like, why not go through a traditional lender? On the flipside,
Paul Punnoose [00:29:25] it depends on like the well, there’s a few reasons, right? When I was flipping, I actually didn’t have T4 for income to show. So when you don’t have income to show, then there’s only a certain number of people that will actually lend to you. And typically, lenders are not really in the flipping business, right? They want to know that you’re buying the property and that you’re going to keep it and continue to pay their mortgages, even though their penalties may make them a lot of money. That’s just not the business that they’re in. So. That’s typically what we were doing, I think finding lenders, connecting with the right mortgage brokers that are going to be able to help you close on certain deals. The deals that we did, though none of them were actually like super intensive, where a lender wouldn’t finance those deals.
Rob Break [00:30:25] Well, the floor wasn’t caving in or anything like that.
Paul Punnoose [00:30:28] Yeah. Like they were all just cosmetic and they were all more situational. I like I just got a great deal on a property and rather than wholesaling it, I decided to flip it myself.
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Paul Punnoose [00:31:16] Right. I actually kind of fell into wholesaling, I didn’t get into finding discounted properties so I could start wholesaling. The concept for me was to start finding more Typekit in our portfolio. That made sense. And then, you know, I had bought and hold. I had a flip going on and I was like, Do I want to take on another flip? Because flipping something stressful, right? Like it takes it takes a certain type of person to be able to pull off flips. It’s definitely not for everybody. And so, you know, we got to choose the lifestyle that we wanted to do, right? Did we want to take on more flips, add that stress to our plate and continue to grow that way? Or do we just want to passively offload these to other investors who would be able to make a substantial profit on it and just take a quick cut for it?
Rob Break [00:32:06] You know, I think he made a good point there, too, like that all ties into your ideals and your lifestyle that you’re trying to live because if you’ve got that amount of deals coming in and it sounds like, you know you found a way to find some pretty good ones, you know, you could get all wrapped up and know I’m a flipper. You know, I don’t I don’t wholesale deals. I flip them all myself. And then and then what that could do is completely change your lifestyle, what you’re doing with your time. Family wise and everything, right? So I think that’s an important point to make really is like you could have tried to flip all 17 of those houses that you flipped. Let’s talk about let’s talk about the profit if you don’t mind getting a little personal with the wholesale. So typically, let’s talk about your best and then talk about like a typical. What kind of money are you making on these wholesale deals?
Paul Punnoose [00:33:08] I don’t want to I don’t want to actually share my best because my best a little bit is and they’ve been really so during the pandemic, right? Like the market was soaring, right?
Rob Break [00:33:20] And then Paul can’t stop laughing. So it’s like, how much money have you made?
Paul Punnoose [00:33:28] You know, they were quite lucrative, right? Where I, you know, in sometimes I was like, Hey, if I decided to flip this property, what I would do, I think I would have made and I would sometimes make more on the wholesale just because sometimes I would be able to find an investor. That’s Hey, I’m buying this for as a retailer like, I’m going to be buying this to move in, so I’m willing to pay a little bit more. And when that happened, I was like, This is crazy, right? So you know, I’ll tell you like the average probable. Average wholesale fee was around 40k, I would say.
Rob Break [00:34:07] That’s astounding. Yeah, it’s because of the market though, right?
Paul Punnoose [00:34:12] It’s because of the market.
Rob Break [00:34:13] Like if you can provide something where there’s not, there’s an awful lot of competition with stuff that’s on market. And if you can provide something for an investor or, like you said, even someone looking for their own home where they know what they’re going to have to pay and they don’t have to compete against anybody else that’s worth money to somebody a lot potentially like you’re saying. Yeah. So congratulations, it sounds like you’ve just been nailing it.
Paul Punnoose [00:34:44] Yeah, we had a great year reflecting back yesterday and we’re like, Hey, man, we should be pretty, pretty happy with how this year went. But I guess kind of like we were talking before the recording with Sandy, and we’re just saying, Hey, got to reevaluate what’s going on for next year and how we move forward. So looking into different strategies, trying out different things, I we started we started actually doing this in the United States as well. So we’re actually marketing online in the US. It’s pretty interesting because, you know, out here we are, all wholesalers or private buyers are really marketing to the masses, right? You’re marketing to everybody and just saying, Hey, who bites? And you know, who could be potentially help in the United States? I don’t know. Have you guys have you guys had a wholesaler that focuses in the U.S. on your podcast yet?
Rob Break [00:35:39] No, we’ve talked about flips in the US. We haven’t really talked about wholesaling in the US. But the thing is like, this is this is an interesting topic. And if somebody has experience in that, we’d love to talk to them, but only if they’re based in Canada. I don’t want to talk to an American doing flips in the US. That’s, you know, I can do that all day long. We get all kinds of inquiries of people that can talk on that. But you know, we need we need to keep this, you know, very relevant for our Canadian listeners. I think that that’s the important thing. And yeah, like so go on and share a little bit more.
Paul Punnoose [00:36:17] So I mean, like here I was, as I saying, you know, you are advertising in the masses in the United States. They have so much data that is available to the public that is like breaches, all confidential laws out here. And it’s pretty crazy because you can find people that are tax delinquent. You can find people that you can even look up lists based on equity positions in their property. So you can find you can pull up lists of people that have a say, you know. Like, like 60 percent equity in their property that are foreign or out-of-state investors, and you can advertise to these people directly. Right. So it kind of just like changes the whole dynamic of the game essentially, right? Like, I’m now marketing directly towards people that I know might be willing to walk away from their property if they don’t need it anymore. So that’s been kind of interesting. That’s been a lot of fun to play with. We ended up getting one property out there and we’re trying it out. It’s pretty cool. It’s about I’ll tell you that the numbers on that, it’s a $55000 property and it’s a three bedroom bungalow.
Sandy Mackay [00:37:39] And what market is there?
Paul Punnoose [00:37:41] It’s in Ohio. Yeah. So it’s
Rob Break [00:37:45] in the city or
Paul Punnoose [00:37:47] just outside of Dayton, Dayton, Ohio.
Sandy Mackay [00:37:50] OK. Cincinnati Center right near there.
Paul Punnoose [00:37:53] Yeah, not too far from there. And we’re just playing around to see, hey, like, can we find better cash flow right elsewhere? And, you know, evaluating different strategies,
Sandy Mackay [00:38:06] what’s the is that is that it is wholesaling? Is that the that the is the plan there with that one?
Paul Punnoose [00:38:11] I mean, the concept why we started is to try and do wholesaling. But then we found this property. You know, it’s probably worth seventy five to eighty thousand on the market. And we converted essentially perfect beer. And so cash flow like two or three bucks
Sandy Mackay [00:38:30] or whatever, whatever tenants they end up with. And that is that is that they got like, I know the Section eight is a big thing in the US, whereas the government’s government backed tenants or there’s some sort of program, yeah, yeah.
Paul Punnoose [00:38:44] So we actually wouldn’t be that force. We explored some of the Section eight housing. You know, it’s very it’s a different strategy than I would ever employ in Ontario. But you know, the whole pandemic and the fact that the government will provide 70 percent of the rent. So it’s guaranteed that you’re going to get 70 percent of the rent from the government. It’s just you never know how that that tenant profile is going to be treating your property right. We’ve taken a look. We’ve explored some of that, but I think we’re actually going to try and find just somebody who’s going to be able to rent the property, not in the Section eight program.
Rob Break [00:39:23] Yeah. So man, there’s this this is a rabbit hole of financing for this place. What kind of financing is there any or do you just buy at cash or what’s the deal?
Paul Punnoose [00:39:38] Yeah. So the reason why I focused in this area is one of my best friends. He actually moved out there and he became a realtor out there. So I basically have boots on the ground out there and we were able to partners. So right now we have closed on it in cash, but we will be refinancing it probably within two to three months with that with a lender. Kind of gives us time to shop around. But because I also have him out there, then you know, the rules, the rules change a little bit.
Rob Break [00:40:07] Right, right. So you’ve got a partner who is an American. He’s American citizen, I’m assuming.
Paul Punnoose [00:40:13] Yeah, yeah.
Rob Break [00:40:14] Yeah. So that does that does change it.
Paul Punnoose [00:40:17] Meaning he’s not American citizen, but his wife is OK.
Rob Break [00:40:22] So, right. So you’ve got an American citizen that’s working with you on this particular one, and that’s probably a pretty important piece of the puzzle. If you’re not just going to buy cash, but I mean, Jesus, like fifty five thousand dollars, let’s convert that to like what is that? Eighty something like 80 Canadian. Yeah, yeah. Still is not even a down payment on a house here.
Paul Punnoose [00:40:48] Exactly. Yeah.
Rob Break [00:40:49] So, you know, it’s interesting to look at that is that for cash, you don’t have paid the whole thing. It now belongs to me and me, and I just no leverage. I don’t know anything to anybody, but it’s funny. I’ve sort of dove into the potential of possibility of possibly flipping in Texas, looking at that a little bit. And just like the price of what you get for, like what you pay for, it is just like it’s crazy, right? Like these mansions for three hundred and fifty thousand dollars?
Sandy Mackay [00:41:32] Yeah.
Rob Break [00:41:34] So I’m assuming that fifty five thousand dollars buy you a pretty decent place.
Paul Punnoose [00:41:39] It’s a three bedroom bungalow similar to, like, you know, the ones that we would find in Oshawa, like very similar and a little bit outdated. So it’s nothing exceptionally huge.
Rob Break [00:41:50] But in that same place in Oshawa is, what, seven, 600 700?
Paul Punnoose [00:41:55] Yeah, probably a little bit more now. So it’s pretty crazy, right? So I mean, you know, we’re just we’re finding we’re still finding deals that that do cash flow in Ontario that have to be a lot more creative and you have to be able to find really good deals. And for us, we wanted to kind of hedge that and say, Hey, like where else can we look to find cash flow? And let’s take a look and see how we can do this.
Rob Break [00:42:23] That’s good to hear about all the interesting things that people are doing. So I like that. Now this is interesting you mentioned Quentin D’Souza’s coaching course earlier, but you actually took over his coaching course. I just worry about. So tell us about that, how that came about and everything.
Paul Punnoose [00:42:46] Yeah. So Quinn, he frequently says that he stopped coaching, which is true. He has stopped coaching, but he basically is the mentor in our group still. So he still joins us on our calls. He is in our group chat and is pretty active on it. And so it’s pretty cool because, you know, this is the same program that I learned everything I needed to learn from to kind of grow and scale our portfolio. And you know, I’m a teacher. So he actually asked me, Hey, would you be interested in running this? And you know, at first, I was kind of hesitant because I was like, You know, I’m doing really well in the wholesaling and the flipping to I want to take more time out of my business to do this. And part of me was like, Hey, I’ll just try it out and see, you know, I like to try different things. And I started it. We started about a month ago. We have about nine coaching clients now, and we closed it up and capped it at that right now. And I’m really enjoying it. I just I love educating other people. And I like seeing other people achieve results, right? Like working towards their goals and just questioning some of the decisions they make to see if they’re getting closer to or further away from their goals.
Rob Break [00:44:07] So, you know, break this coaching course down a little bit. What do people what do people expect if they want to sign up?
Paul Punnoose [00:44:16] Yeah. So like I said, we’ve kind of capped it, but we will be opening it back up in in the spring next year. It is a new six month program where we go through a different online modules finding financing, funding, property management, a bunch of different online modules that have already been created. Every week we get on to a Zoom call and people are kind of focused on working on their. Their action items to achieve what they’re trying to get done in that quarter. And we also bring on a bunch of speakers to the calls. So we’ve had we’ve had a numerous amount of speakers and Quentin’s on the calls once in a while, too. So it’s a bunch of learning and it’s a bunch of action taking. The program’s called the Edu action program, so that’s what we focus on. And yet we’ve had a lot of positive feedback from the group so far. So I’m super excited. You know, I don’t really. For me, it’s not like. I’m not making too much from it, but it’s something I actually just really enjoy doing. And I, yeah, somebody that I didn’t think I would love as much as I do get, I get I get excited about my ah coaching comments
Sandy Mackay [00:45:42] that give it a service or service. Actively serving the world is always exciting thing. I get a lot of energy from it. Do you take on a certain amount of students at a given time or does it always open to join? Or is there a certain onboarding days or months or how does that work?
Paul Punnoose [00:46:02] Yeah, I mean, so is our first time there were we were operating it and we wanted to cap it at nine. We didn’t want any more students than nine for one night of coaching. But we will probably be opening that back up in April to have, you know, maybe another night or something like that where we have a different group. That’s something that Quentin and I will be chatting about. But we have already kind of it looks like we’re moving in that direction already. Awesome. Rob unmute Rob, thank you.
Rob Break [00:46:38] I remember when I went through that course and I mean, it’s obviously evolved since then. It was years ago when I did it, but it was a similar thing where there was, I think, nine people and all people that I still talk to this day. Just we all learned and came up together and were feeding off of each other and really held accountable by each other to get going. And I think it was just it was super powerful. If it’s anything like it was, obviously it’s probably still very similar just with more bonuses, which at the time. I mean, I remember it’s a funny piece of feedback to give now that I think about it, but Quentin called me after I was done going through the course. He said, What do you think? Give me some feedback on everything. And I’m like, Quentin, like, man, you blew me away there. The only thing I can say is there was too much info for me all at once. That was that’s really my only complaint. Like, I need more time or maybe like this. Dial it back so we can focus on a little bit more. But there is just so much. And I mean, over the last five years, he’s probably built on that information. So I can only imagine that the value people are getting is just outstanding. So if I can recommend this to anybody starting out, I would say get in touch with Paul and see where if you can fit in there somehow because it’s life changing, it really is.
Paul Punnoose [00:48:09] Yeah, for sure. I mean, the other reason why I agreed to it is because it’s the same program that changed my life. Right. And so I believed in it and I was like, OK, I’ll do this. It’s like, I don’t. There’s a lot of people out there that are into coaching and doing different programs, and you might not have done some of the work themselves. And so because of that, I was like, Hey, you know what? This worked for me like Sandy said, right? Kind of giving back, you know, I’m sure you guys really enjoy doing the podcast because at the end of the day, you’re helping probably thousands of other investors that are looking to get into real estate investing or grow their portfolios.
Rob Break [00:48:52] Yeah, that’s the plan.
Sandy Mackay [00:48:55] I think the other thing with that, of course, is you guys are educators that like trained, educated for it. I mean, that’s part of the everyone can be a coach, but just say or coach doesn’t make you really much of a professional coach, there’s a lot of ways that you need to learn and train yourself on how to do that, whether you have the knowledge or not. Like personal and hands on knowledge, you still need to, you know, show that, yeah, coach people in a in a right and a good way, or it’s not going to come across or get implemented very well. So it’s a cool thing with the program that you guys are both from that background. I think that I’m sure that helps make it delivered in a great way.
Rob Break [00:49:34] I’ve always put it like this Sandy. Someone says, Why don’t you do a coaching course Rob like you can do a coaching course and like I could. But the reason why I don’t is exactly like, you just said it’s got to be put together in a coherent, sort of progressive fashion that makes sense. Like, ask me a question. I can answer it, you know, maybe most likely like, and if I can, I can maybe help find somebody that can. But that’s the extent of it for me. Like, you know, just ask me the question, think for it. I would put it all down, you know, for people to, you know, indulge in through a course or anything like that. So no, this is really good and that’s a good point. Like, yeah, it’s important to have someone that’s trained educator to help you with that.
Sandy Mackay [00:50:28] How do you it? How does someone learn more about this, this course? Is there a place to go, sign up or they just reach out to you?
Paul Punnoose [00:50:34] Yeah, you just reach out to me like or they can reach out to Clinton. Like he actively tells people he’s not coaching, but he does join our calls and is like super active in our group chats. I think there is a sense of gratification that you get from doing this. That would be difficult to leave doing. Mm hmm.
Rob Break [00:50:57] Yeah. It’s funny because we’re like pumping this right up, but I don’t believe that is necessarily like your number one thing for coming on the show here. But we’re going to get some more delegates, some more clients in that space. Um, but also, you know, you’re interested in talking to people who are going to want to partner on these kind of great deals that you’re finding as well, right?
Paul Punnoose [00:51:22] Well, that’s just it, right? Like the other thing too is I’m finding I’m finding deals before they hit market or, you know, require a lot of work and are not being seen. So, you know, I. Wholesale properties that don’t fit my criteria of keeping or flipping myself right, or if I’m too busy, but if I have more partners, I’m able to do a little bit more buying holds and kind of offer some pretty good returns to my partners. So I think networking with people in general will help you find these kind of partners, right? I’m sure as you guys know you do, you both have joint venture partners on different properties. Yeah, yeah. And you know, the first few people that you spoke with probably thought you were crazy.
Rob Break [00:52:12] Yup. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I’ve been told at one point that I was trying to. Or was it one of the guys was a mechanic? And he said to me after I showed him an opportunity, which is a great opportunity that I found other partners for. But I remember he was a mechanic, and he said that the guy beside him to compare my offer with what? You know what? The way that he took it was the guy beside him offered to give him half the toolbox. I can’t remember. It was something like something like, you know, basically all he needed to do is clean the tools and he got half the tool, half of his tools. Something along that line is what I was trying to push on them. Yeah. So, you know, not everybody understands the way that the way that opportunity knocks, potentially
Sandy Mackay [00:53:08] a final deal is always the hardest part, right? If you can find deals and you have you have a good system for that. I mean, that’s the hardest part by far. There’s lots of money out of that, right. So anyone betting money as it is of some value, obviously, but solely a small piece of like it’s part of the deal, but it’s not the whole deal by any means, for sure. For sure. The money as we often talk about money being made in the buy, right? And so if you can, if you can add value to that and finding a buy that’s already got equity in there, it’s a lot of value.
Paul Punnoose [00:53:40] Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, having gone through that coaching program, you guys have probably some rules that you like abide by when it comes to investing. And for me, it’s like I won’t purchase a property unless there is equity in the property, right? Like. But that’s part of part of the, I guess, part of the deal when you’re working with joint venture partners is that’s part of the value that you want to bring to these people. Right?
Sandy Mackay [00:54:11] Yeah.
Rob Break [00:54:14] Paul, let’s tell me a piece of info or vice that’s always stuck with you and how it’s possibly helped you along the way.
Paul Punnoose [00:54:27] Uh, hmm. A piece of advice. I mean, as a real estate investor. Don’t take the word. No. Like, you know, you’re going to hear a bunch of no’s. So always, always be problem solving and figure out how you can work around different. Different roadblocks that you’re going to come across. I think the other thing to do is surround yourself with people that are trying to do it and block off all the noise because there there’s a ton of people, a ton of media that will deter you from really taking action and moving forward, and you want to surround yourself with people that are consistently taking action.
Rob Break [00:55:16] Agreed. Yeah, you can always if you look hard enough, you can find a news story that will deter you from getting into real estate investing.
Sandy Mackay [00:55:22] Oh yeah. I’m looking
Rob Break [00:55:24] for her. You know, have to look very hard at all. No, no, no.
Paul Punnoose [00:55:27] Go get them sent to me all the time to you. From people that are like, Hey, man, maybe it’s a good time to exert.
Sandy Mackay [00:55:35] Do I get a ton of my friends? Tell me that? Sorry. Yeah, but I’m not going to follow that.
Rob Break [00:55:43] But I mean, that’s been around forever. You know that kind of stuff has a wait a minute like take a step back and may not be the right time to invest. You know, why don’t you just hang back and let’s see what happens? That might be the best thing for you to do or big changes are coming or the market’s going to crash or whatever it is like. You know, you can always, always find a reason to not do it
Sandy Mackay [00:56:08] in my crash micro-SIM and micro-SIM next month, so relevant like it’s not completely irrelevant, but it’s not it’s not going to affect. It’s not going affect me, at least. And are and the things we’re doing, we’re still going to we’d still like to buy something the week of the casting. If that’s happening, I’m sure there’s some great deals to come actually saving
Rob Break [00:56:28] way this year, but don’t wait for it, but you’re not waiting for that to happen. No, I mean, I know people that have been waiting for the last three or four years for that to happen so that they can start investing. Mm hmm.
Sandy Mackay [00:56:41] So you’ll be way harder equipped than way smarter and know so much more about the time that does come. You’ll actually be able to see it. Versus sometimes it’s hard to see if you don’t have an experience, right? So the more knowledge and experience you have, the more able you’ll be to take advantage of that if that ever happens. I mean, I was
Rob Break [00:56:59] just going to say, like, it’s all about smart risk, right? Not no risk. There’s definitely going to be risk involved with anything that we do. So just being able to analyze it and you know, if you’re maybe somebody who hasn’t bought anything yet. Right, right. Maybe you’re not in Paul’s program. Maybe you don’t have time for Paul’s program, but there’s somebody out there that, you know, if you’re interested in a property and you go, Wow, like, this one looks really great, but I don’t trust myself. You know, I’ve analyzed it six ways to Sunday, and I still don’t trust myself. There’s somebody else out there, you know, contact somebody from this show that you know you’ve heard. Contact me, contact Sandy, contact Paul and say, Hey, I found this deal. Like, what do you think of this? Is this going to be a good one for me to jump into as my first property? You know. Absolutely. Ask somebody else if you don’t trust yourself.
Paul Punnoose [00:57:54] But that’s going to do nothing, we’re afraid. Exactly. And some people are afraid to not to ask those questions, right? Like in this industry, you have to have zero fear about asking questions. And even if even if you think they’re stupid, like you’re going to learn so much from asking other people that are experienced.
Rob Break [00:58:16] And the fear is probably in the fact that, you know, if I ask you, I go, I know this is a great deal. I know it is. Let me just ask Paul. Paul, is this a great deal? Hell yeah, that’s an amazing deal. Oh crap. I guess I actually have to go do something now too, right?
Paul Punnoose [00:58:32] Yeah, totally, totally. And like, we’ve all been there, right? Like, I’ve asked this question to other investors. I’m like, What do you think of this deal? And like, if you don’t, if you don’t pull the trigger, I’m going to buy that thing.
Rob Break [00:58:45] Yeah. There’s no more. There’s no bigger motivation for me than that. I’ll tell you that, right? Because actually, somebody says that to me, I’m like, OK, I’m buying it. Yeah, man. So much in here, Paul. Thanks for joining us today. Really appreciate you taking the time to come and talk to us today. What’s the best way for people to get in touch with you?
Paul Punnoose [00:59:06] Yeah, I mean, probably the best way is to get on to me to get onto my buyer’s list because you’ll get an email directly from me right away. You can go into profitable property. Okay, and that’s property is in singular property and yeah, or you can email me at a profitable property 10 one zero at gmail.com. It’s probably the best way to get in contact.
Rob Break [00:59:35] OK. And do you have like are you on social media anything like that?
Paul Punnoose [00:59:40] Yeah, I’m on Instagram. I mean, I’m on Facebook. I don’t really do too much on Facebook other than I push out some of my deals on a bunch of different possibilities. Yeah, for sure. For sure. But you can follow me on Instagram Paul Dot Pannu’s. You’ll see that I don’t have that much real estate investing or investing posted up there, and I think that might be the 2022 action steps that I got. I got to incorporate, but I do post a lot of stuff about my real estate investing on my stories. So if you happen to catch it, you’ll see some. We have a duplex conversion that I think is getting a final inspection today, so pretty excited about that.
Rob Break [01:00:25] So if you check out Paul’s Instagram, you’ll see he’s a real person doing real things. Now that’s really cool, man. OK, listen, we’re going to have all the info for people to contact you in the show notes. If they didn’t catch that first time around listening to it there, so you can reach Paul at profitable property. 10. That’s yeah, that’s right. All right, cool. Thanks so much for joining us today, Paul.
Paul Punnoose [01:00:54] Thanks for having me. I really appreciate you guys, and I love the fact that you guys have been doing this podcast. Congrats on what you said. Eight years, eight years.
Sandy Mackay [01:01:03] We’re wrapping up this show here. That’s going to be a wrap on our eight year.
Rob Break [01:01:09] My wrap on our seventh year, seventh year, eighth year wrap on wrapping our seventh year starting into the eighth year, I think. No.
Sandy Mackay [01:01:19] Hey, that’s a wrap on the eighth year. Eight. The Airmen eight their twenty fourteen.
Rob Break [01:01:24] Yeah, we started January 2014, January 2014.
Sandy Mackay [01:01:27] This this next episode that we air that comes out will be around our eight like done with the eighth year into the ninth year.
Rob Break [01:01:37] All right. Well, listen, you know, I’m one year older than I thought I was,
Sandy Mackay [01:01:42] so I just think so I had I just counted on my hand there.
Rob Break [01:01:47] So again, if you guys need some deals, analyze, just give us a call.
Sandy Mackay [01:01:51] Yeah, we know our numbers.
Rob Break [01:01:54] And how can people reach you?
Sandy Mackay [01:01:55] Sandy two eight nine three nine six eight four six or Sandy at McKay Reynolds Network Gqom
Rob Break [01:02:02] and people can reach me at Rob at Mr Breakthrough. Okay, well, thanks for joining us, guys. We’ll see you next time. That.