Table of Contents - Finding Great Deals in HOT Markets with Aaron Moore
Dave Debeau [00:00:09] Hey, everyone, this is Dave Debeau with another episode of the Property Profits Real Estate podcast today. It's my pleasure to be talking with Aaron Moore all the way from the GTA to Greater Toronto area. How are you doing today?
Aaron Moore [00:00:21] We're doing great, Dave.
Dave Debeau [00:00:24] That's fantastic. So if you're not familiar with Aaron, Aaron is a very, very experienced real estate entrepreneur. He's won multiple awards for the cool stuff he does. And what I find particularly fascinating about Aaron coming from my marketing background, plus, you know, my initial foray into real estate investing was doing kind of a little bit of that kind of stuff that you're doing now, Aaron, and finding motivated sellers and getting into kind of interesting kind of deals. Aaron's doing that. And what many people think is probably is the hottest market in Canada, which is Toronto. So he's able to find motivated sellers. He's able to find properties under market value, turnaround, flip them wholesale and buy and hold them to all sorts of great things. So really looking forward to learning from you here today, Aaron.
Aaron Moore [00:01:17] Thank you, Dave. Appreciate you being here. It's an honor. I've known them for a long time, so probably over 10 years now. So it's good to be here.
Dave Debeau [00:01:25] Awesome. Awesome. Well, Aaron, tell us a little bit about how you got the whole crazy world of real estate investing in the first place.
Aaron Moore [00:01:31] Well, I think like many people, I've gotten slowly. You know, first it started with, you know, one real estate investing, Brooke Baldwin property. And then it took a few years after that to actually experience it, to see it. And it was one property, but this was my mid twenties. But my housemates with me then after a few years, equities up more than just pay down. I'm living in pretty much for free. And I said, I've got to do more of this stuff. So that's when I started to go into local real estate investing groups. And at that point, after seeing what one property can do, that's when I said I got to do this full time for a lot of effort into this.
Dave Debeau [00:02:08] Well, so how long was it from when you started to when you jumped into it full time? And did you jump into full time or did you kind of transition? And what were you doing job beforehand?
Aaron Moore [00:02:19] Yeah, I wouldn't rule it was IBM. You own software business analysis, always Internet software stuff. But it was about four to five years from when my brother first bought sort of an income property. We lived in it and then it was four or five years later, I was doing this full time and I'd say I jumped in with more than other people I know other people talk about and replacing your income first and not me so much. I did more than jump. I had a little cushion right at some cushion, a bit of cash in the bank, you know, not that much little equity in the property, but I took the plunge.
Dave Debeau [00:02:57] Nice. Nice. Well, that's awesome. So, Erin, what is your main focus these days? What do you are you have primarily a flipper, a wholesaler buying a whole kind of guy. I know you do a bit of everything, but what's your bread and butter?
Aaron Moore [00:03:11] Yeah, I'm certainly no one is a wholesaler. That's what other investors know me is. And my bread and butter is really attracting those motivated sellers to private deals. And from there you have uncertainty like, hello, my wealth has been built from buying whole rental properties. So I've collected rental properties. But yeah, it's ongoing every month for wholesaling. We're flipping properties and I collect some rentals along the way. Nice. So that's what I do and that's what I'm doing for.
Dave Debeau [00:03:44] OK, so for folks that are watching this and are perhaps just kind of getting started in their real estate investing journey. Eric, can you tell us why you think it's so important, become good at finding your own deals instead of relying on realtors and the MLS and all that kind of normal stuff? Right. People think they should be doing.
Aaron Moore [00:04:05] Yeah, know in the past. I know when I first started, I thought of MLS and sometimes it's a waiting game. But the reality is there's all these deals out there. Some of them are going to end up, as you know, if it's not me going after them, they're going to end up as the bank sales on MLS that the sheriff's going to come. We're going to lock these people out and they're going to be kicked out. Maybe they'll go to a rental property or who knows what they'll do. But, you know, I can circumvent that by contacting them before the sheriff's going to lock them to change the locks. And there's just a ton of crazy situations people get into and they just need a fast, easy sale. And there's certainly more than happy that they expect to sell at a discount. Like I'm not buying the prettiest houses over there. Right. So these are fixer uppers it could be divorced from. There's typically financial problems, but it could be just, you know, the house stinks. It's filthy, it's
Dave Debeau [00:05:02] as water, something like that.
Aaron Moore [00:05:05] And people just want to do so. The benefits to me and the other investors, the wholesale to buy at a discount. And I have built my own my rentals and my personal residence. All these properties we use the I guess it's called the Byrd strategy buy. We renovate, we rent refinanced. So it's a way of bootstrapping the rentals. You're not thinking that much money into each rental. You buy what it takes, but it's certainly a good way to grow your portfolio over time.
Dave Debeau [00:05:33] But you're kind of got the best of both worlds because you can find really good deals that you can add to your long term buy and hold strategy. Do the BR method with you, can wholesale deals that you're not really interested in, but you know, other investors. You're making a nice little pop achak there could be a different property that you buy and you renovate instead of holding it as a rental. It's not, maybe not a great rental, you just flip it for a nice chunk of cash there too. So you kind of got the whole spectrum covered.
Aaron Moore [00:06:02] Yeah. No, not a lot of different agreement for sale deals. You hear about Terry a little bit. I don't know, rent owns privately, but these are come of it. It's something you got to kind of focus and it really is a whole see the fix and flipping. But that's what we do for activism. Everyone likes a high income, right? So that's what we do for income. The long term wealth building, that's for me, that's rental properties.
Dave Debeau [00:06:30] Makes sense. Definitely. So, Aaron, let's dove into one of my favorite things, which is all about the marketing. Sounds like coming from a tech background. What are some of if you don't mind sharing, what are some of the strategies or methods that you use to find or attract motivated sellers these days? Because I know what I do way back in the day. Twenty three, twenty four, twenty five times are a changin. So I'm sure some of that stuff works really well today. But there's other newer, better stuff or newer stuff that might work better.
Aaron Moore [00:07:05] Yeah, maybe partially because I have a tech background, so I am very comfortable with the Internet. So I do a ton of Internet marketing. I know I do the paper clip to find motivated sellers, which often means I'm sure most people, the Google ads, the people see the ads and every do a Google search. I come up and there are a lot I have a strong personal presence because I've been around a while. Which means I can't get the organic searches as well, not just the eight X, so that
Dave Debeau [00:07:33] other words, there so many types in sell my house fast and what would be an
Aaron Moore [00:07:39] easy sell my house fast in Toronto and surrounding areas. And, you know, I want cash in my house now. Things like this just wire urgent, motivated kind of terms that people would be typing in. Yeah, I'll be coming up. Both paid and sometimes in the nonpaid section. I'm on both. That being said, over the years I've done like letters. Sending letters to hell was still great. You know, if you know the type of house you want to target, well, you know where they are, right? You can look them up or figure the neighbor that has the types of properties you want or if you want to probably be the owner of that apartment building. And their mailing address is public record or the city hall. Look at the tax records and you want to target the owner of that building, then you can do it right. So definitely talk to favorite things on the Internet and letters like letters direct to either a specific house. You want the types of houses you want.
Dave Debeau [00:08:38] So if you're doing the type of houses that you want, are you targeting specific neighborhoods? Are you doing kind of like blanket unaddressed, add mail type mailings or what?
Aaron Moore [00:08:51] I am doing the uninterest and mail to the neighborhood mail. And for me, I like to go after neighborhoods using older stock of housing that will have the opportunity for rentals and for fixing, for not going after your big four bedroom, two car garage built in the last 10 years after adding the secondary suite is big around here. So we go after those kinds of houses. Once again, it's older, typically an older stock, but something new, not the highest price point, but still enough space, spacious enough. I was put in a secondary suite like the standard bungalow still works well. We target those neighborhoods with the older bungalows
Dave Debeau [00:09:36] and are usually doing something like a postcard, doing an actual letter. You doing the good old yellow air that we've heard so much about. What's working for
Aaron Moore [00:09:45] you? That's it's more like the letter style. And I still like the handwritten letters. No, very personal come in human to human things like the theme of Maki's. OK, first you've got to get it delivered, then you got to get it acknowledged and or right. So if it looks just like a piece of advertising people often just tolerate in the garbage. I think it would. I mean, pretty colorful realtor postcards you get saying, you know, I was just listing the neighborhood. You know, I'm sure maybe some of us listing care because we're in real estate, but I think the average person just tosses them all right.
Dave Debeau [00:10:19] And they're ready to list their house this better. If the timing's
Aaron Moore [00:10:23] right, then yeah, maybe that the house the realtor pretty postcard will attract. But I think everyone will look at, say, a handwritten letter. It doesn't really matter, you know, with my handwritten letters about from first glance. So it looks handwriting. It may be a photocopy of handwritten look at it. And you probably will read the first sentence or two, and if it doesn't reach the first sentence we got, at least I got someone to read it to pay attention.
Dave Debeau [00:10:51] Exactly right. Have they see your next one coming down six months down the line? Maybe their time and circumstances have changed a little bit. No. So I imagine you've been doing this for years now. So I imagine you've got people that are coming around a couple of years after you've actually sent them the first message through enough.
Aaron Moore [00:11:09] Just this year, I had someone call me, got a letter back in twenty twelve. I know because of this specific area I went to and you know. Yeah. Some people hold on these letters for a while.
Dave Debeau [00:11:20] Yeah. No that's always found that fascinating. So. Yeah, well that's cool. Now one of the things that kind of frustrates me about being up here in Canada is that I, I watch what the Americans are doing and how much easier it is for them to access information and find out, you know, they can find out online who the hell is behind on their mortgage payments and all these kind of things and get in there and get letters in there. Is there anything like that available for us here in Canada these days or you just of.
Aaron Moore [00:11:52] I'm still a little envious of all the these lists I hear about the Americans getting their hands on. But there are certain things, you know, cities around here still have tax sales. So, you know, I think around here not really getting a list of the see the people and the phone numbers and mailing addresses, but there are lists of the properties going up for tax sale in a few weeks. So you could target the properties and I guess you could find the owners information. You can dove into these things. Also, I know in some cities, Toronto has a file on fractions are publicly available on the Internet. There's a website, search neighborhoods and find out whose class got too long and the city got called and this sort of thing.
Dave Debeau [00:12:40] Yeah, well, that's a good clue. What have you done any of that kind of stuff yourself or you just got to focus on? You don't need to because you're focusing on what you're already doing.
Aaron Moore [00:12:48] I haven't hit it too hard, but we do pay attention a little bit to the bias. But it's more like if we're working on a house in a certain area, we'll probably drop off some fliers at ones nearby that have violent fractions or things like that.
Dave Debeau [00:13:03] Yeah, very, very cool. Now, what about the good old things like bandit signs, vehicle signage, all that kind of stuff? You don't of that kind of stuff happens.
Aaron Moore [00:13:13] All right. I still have some of those outdoor signs and I like to call them outdoor signs, but the other day designs.
Dave Debeau [00:13:20] I still Canadia. We got to be politically correct. There you go.
Aaron Moore [00:13:24] Yeah, I've done well with them over the years as my brand has gotten bigger. So I've done less because
Dave Debeau [00:13:31] it was easier.
Aaron Moore [00:13:32] That's why they find me easier. Yeah. So I think it's better for the new guy starting that.
Dave Debeau [00:13:38] Honestly I no that makes there's
Aaron Moore [00:13:40] ways to do it and there are ways to do it and stay in the bylaw rules. So you can do that. Do just takes a lot more work and effort.
Dave Debeau [00:13:47] Yeah, definitely. I think the most unique one I heard of was a buddy of mine in Edmonton who hired pizza delivery guys to put them up Friday afternoon and take them down Sunday afternoon. That's when all the the bylaws guys weren't working. That worked pretty well for him.
Aaron Moore [00:14:05] So you can work it within the bylaws, but it takes a lot of time and effort.
Dave Debeau [00:14:10] Excellent. Yeah, and that's very, very true. Well, Aaron, this is a lot of fun. I mean, I love talking about marketing and creative ways of finding motivated sales because, again, like you said, that's typically where the best deals can be found. Any time a realtor or a bank gets in the middle, it just mucks things up and messes things up so you can deal directly eyeballed. I don't need any with the seller. It works so much better.
Aaron Moore [00:14:37] And you're going to like working with the seller. You can tailor your solution, you can solve the problem. You can find out the problem. If there's middlemen, then it's really hard to find out the problems. But I can find exactly the ideal moving time. Are they broke? Often the same as I deal with. A lot of them are broke. They don't have moving money. So it's a we do things like delayed, basically closed sooner. They can move out later. So you get your money now and you got plenty of money because most us aren't buying that money back. So we have plenty of money to take their time and buy our snacks or their first and last for their next rental. We're moving money for a moving truck so we can just tailor the solutions. What if it's them and the place is sort of secondary if we can give them everything else they need?
Dave Debeau [00:15:28] Right. They're not as picky about the price because you're more flexible on the other things. You're not sure what their needs are. Yeah, OK, that makes sense. So a quick question as we're just kind of wrapping up, how do you typically finance these? Are you going in with investor partners? How do you get your cash when you do?
Aaron Moore [00:15:47] Yeah, you know, there's a few different ways. I definitely have a stable of private lenders, some people who will lend me a mortgage. And you do need private lenders in this business because a lot of them, like I mentioned, the fixer upper banks who finance them because they're in bad condition. We like we do close really fast, like, you know, sometimes under a week and a bank's not going to move that fast. Yeah. I also have over time, I've built up five lines of credit on some of my rentals. So I do have access to cash or cash equivalents so I can buy that mortgage if we really have to act fast. But probably my average one is a private lenders deal. And occasionally, well over the years I certainly have used plenty of bank mortgages, but it is getting tougher and tougher and more rentals accumulate, the tougher it is and just more paperwork to get a bank mortgage. So the more profit you have, the less work bank mortgages you want to get.
Dave Debeau [00:16:42] That definitely makes a lot of sense. And this has been great. If people want to find out more about it and more and what you're up to, what would you recommend that they do?
Aaron Moore [00:16:51] Well, they can. You know, people often want to get access to our wholesale properties so we can go to Steeles GTA Gutsier. That's a website. And we have we're going across southern Ontario. So we're expanding the area that we can go into Ottawa in twenty twenty. I know that people just want the quick and dirty way to get on our our borders list. They can text to six or seven five six zero to one one one and just text your email address and get right under biasness. Let us know. No more details about what you want, but it's just six four seven five six zero two one one one. And yeah, you can contact us through our website. Talk with me, Tomomi, who will be answering the phone calls the time and don't ask the same questions as well.
Dave Debeau [00:17:40] Some very good has been a lot of fun. Thank you very much for sharing some of your wisdom and your experience.
Aaron Moore [00:17:44] My pleasure, Dave. Thanks for having me.
Dave Debeau [00:17:46] All right, everyone, take care. We'll talk to you on the next episode. Bye bye. Well, thanks very much for checking out the property profits podcast and you like what we're doing here. Please head on over to iTunes, subscribe read us and leave us to review it. Very, very much appreciated. And if you're looking to create a regular flow of inbound investor inquiries about your real estate deals, then I invite you to attend one of my upcoming live online demonstrations. And you can check that out at Investor Attraction Demo Dotcom Ticker.