From Pumping Gas for a Living in Ontario to Moving to Edmonton as a Full Time Investor and Opening a Bank With Wayne Hillier

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Table of Contents

Podcast Transcription

Erwin Szeto [00:00:06] Hello. Hello, hackers. Welcome to another episode of The Truth About Real Estate. Best in show. This is Erwin Szeto Bring you the truth. That’s all we do, in my opinion, is just tell the truth and make stuff up and try to keep track of all the lies that are out there. I digress. Hope you’re all keeping happy and healthy during this strange lockdown. I was just talking to an old friend about, you know, the thing about the pandemic. This people said that we’re in this together. And I actually saw someone posted on Facebook, I spent too much time on Facebook. So, yeah, we’re in this together as in like we’re all in the same ocean together, but we’re all some people are floating on a life raft. Some people are only have a life preserver on some people are on a yacht. All right. So we’re all in the same ocean together, but it’s all quite different in how we’re all able to handle. So hopefully, as a listener of the show, you’ve progressed in your ability to generate wealth for yourself and cash flow. If not, please continue listening. We have lots of advice on how to do that. Education, education and advice. So for all of you who already have hard assets, congratulations yourself on the back. But your families know that you got them taken care of and you’re onto this week’s show by the time you’re listening to this. My family and I were living in a hotel. Nothing bad happened. It would have been an Airbnb, but unfortunately the operator canceled our or stay. It’s a shame because we had booked the Airbnb prior to the lockdown announcement on January 12th, but I don’t think the operator knew. So they canceled our stay. Hopefully they don’t mind because they lost probably something around $2,000 in rental income. So instead we’re staying at some huge multinational hotel chain. Thankfully, my realtor me is paying to put us up in a hotel while our house is for sale. In my market, there are considerably less sales than there are new listings. I think sales are outpacing new listings by about a third. So that’s in all my time. I’ve never seen as extreme a seller’s market as I’ve ever seen before. Hopefully we sell fast. We can reach our goal of being the highest sale price in the neighborhood, and I’ll be detailing the process at the next meeting how I’m attempting to get maximum return on my home since I need to minimize my mortgage on my new home. So our target price is double what I paid for the house just over seven years ago. Thankfully have cash flowed quite well last weekend this week and really for quite some time to be able to pay for the hotel. It’s funny that the hotel is costing us $3,000 for the week. I got a hotel room for my nanny as well. So my goal coming into this week was to make $3,000 and I made that on Monday alone. I do have one more free stock hacker academy demonstration coming on Thursday, January 28th, 8 p.m. Eastern Standard Time. I apologize for talking about stock hacking so much. It’s honestly just change so many lives. The truth is, I have cash flowed more in January at this time. Recording it is January 21st. I have cash flowed almost $40,000 in this month so far and that is way more money you going to cash flow it in all my real estate portfolio last year of course my portfolio is in Ontario where it’s highly unaffordable anyways. And it’s not just me. My client Robert Watson was texting me last week and he text me almost every day. He’s been averaging 5000 Canadian for the last six weeks and now seven weeks because he’s already this year the 6000 this week as well. The truth about real estate investing is my bankroll is almost entirely funded by real estate. I would imagine the same for Robert as well, because again, the truth is he is my real estate client for the last seven years. And as you expect, my real estate clients have done exceptionally well based first house on the first day I met him seven years ago in Hamilton and he’s based in these parts over more properties after that. And at the time his plan was his only retirement plan at the time was just to get his kids through university debt free. He will easily accomplish that. And now his plan is to retire in two years. Not bad. From zero retirement plan to now planning to retire in two years. Pretty cool. Personally, when people have a consistent, repeatable way to make money, I get interested in learning more. If you’d like to learn more about real estate investment strategy, which is legal basement apartments, you can register at our next free trading on legal basement apartments at that be WW dot investor training dossier. We are still your four time realtors of the year for investors that real estate is for wealth building for cash flow. My experience it’s stock hacking to learn how to cash flow 4% per month, just like my mentee did. Joel aunt who works for me please register at WW W dot stock hacker academy dossier slash demo and bigger news. I actually subscribe to the Globe Mail for my news. As a marketer, I know how social media works or rather doesn’t work as an unbiased news source. If you don’t believe me, just watch. There’s a Netflix movie about it. Anyways, I study this stuff so I know exactly how it works. I’m not an expert on media, but I know social media is not the place to be gathering news. Anyways, from the article that I just read titled Joe Biden Plans to BLOCK Keystone XL Oil Pipeline as one of his first acts in that and White House. And quote, I read the full article, as you should always do when you read when you’re reading news and it’s as bad as the headline says. What does this have to do with real estate? Well, oil is one of our biggest exports. The Alberta government had committed 1.5 billion to developing this specific pipeline. That would have meant jobs for Alberta. Justin Trudeau promised, I believe, three pipelines in his election promises, and this was the only one that was getting close to getting done. And now this was not getting done. Real estate. For anyone who doesn’t know, real estate is largely driven by jobs. And now there will be less jobs in Alberta and less jobs for communities in general. I personally don’t invest in Alberta. My laziness, thankfully, to not get on a plane all those years ago to invest in places like Edmonton and Calgary, Alberta. It’s my personal preference to invest within an hour, drive and use it. Never, ever need to be there in an emergency. So instead I’ve brought you some someone with boots on the ground in Edmonton. Nice guy, other real estate investor. Dad Podcast Weed Killer. Now when we recorded this podcast, this interview almost a month, it’s been almost a month. So I have asked. I followed up with Wayne for a quote on the pending Keystone pipeline cancelation. He says, it sucks. Another good friend of mine who invested awesome invested Hamilton because I asked him about how things are going. He was telling me how Alberta actually heavily invests in the renewable energy sector. So folks do your own research and decide for yourselves. So Wayne has been investing in Edmonton and the Duke since 2015. He lives out west now, but he’s actually originally from St Catherine’s, Ontario. He’s a dad, husband, landlord. He’s the host of his own podcast, The Real Estate Investor Dad podcast. He’s starting his own bank. He runs his own weekend getaways for self-development, planning goals, setting goals to investing. And I actually think he’s the first person to say on this show that they’re starting a bank. Pretty cool story. And you would never believe after you’re done well enough when he shares it. But this gentleman, he had his Aha! Moment, but he needed to make a change in his life when he was living in a basement and pumping gas for a living. I give you Wayne Hillier. I want aways keeping you busy these days.

Wayne Hillier [00:07:32] What is keep me busy these days. What’s not keep me busy.

Erwin Szeto [00:07:36] I’m an off message response. I’m sorry.

Wayne Hillier [00:07:40] I’m a podcaster, too. I should know better than that. I should probably have something prepared. You know what? I have a new venture. I have a new business that I’ve been working on. It’s not new, have been working on it for almost two years. But I have an Islamic financing business that I got started up and that is that takes up a lot of my time. I have a five year old daughter who takes up a lot of my time. I have a rental portfolio and I have my mentees who I’m helping, you know, get to their next stage in real estate investing. So I’m a very busy guy, but I’m very well balanced and very happy and very healthy. And yeah, what about yourself.

Erwin Szeto [00:08:13] Planning for 2021 and stocking up on podcasts that I don’t have to interview during Christmas.

Wayne Hillier [00:08:22] And don’t go look at mine. I haven’t put one out in almost four weeks and I feel so bad about it. But you know, when it comes down to it, I mean, ultimately you focus on the things that are most important to you, right? And I hate to say it, but the podcast at the bottom of the list, the family and business and everything else, does take priority. But I’ve got a ton of podcasts just unedited that I need to get to. But I’m feeling like Christmas holidays now that we’re going to going into that semi lockdown in Alberta where, you know, there’s no haircuts, there’s no restaurants. I like that. So I’m going to kind of take this time as things slow down. I’m just going to do, like you said, it’s a bunch of podcasts and get them get them all scheduled into the schedule there and then and then it’s not bothering me. Right?

Erwin Szeto [00:09:03] If you need a producer list, let me know. I used the same guys. A lot of the bigger shows too.

Wayne Hillier [00:09:08] Yeah, yeah. It’s one of those things. It’s cost effective for sure. Early on, I’m like, Oh no, I can do it myself. But yeah, you know, I definitely that’s one investment I should be making in myself pretty soon here because I have a lot of listeners and followers that are constantly messaging me and trying to figure out Why haven’t you put anything out? And well, I appreciate that. Yeah, let me know if you shop there.

Erwin Szeto [00:09:27] And just read Dan Sullivan’s who? Not how so? It’s about, you know, where we start. It’s the same boat as you. I used to edit my own show, and then I had to learn how to edit and stuff rather than trying to figure out who should be doing my editing for me. This gave me a whole bunch of time. I can exchange dollars for time, but somebody the time that you get it, time is not renewable. Money is renewable.

Wayne Hillier [00:09:48] It sounds like almost an extension of the four hour workweek is a very similar.

Erwin Szeto [00:09:52] A little bit different because I use it in almost everything in asking the question who? Not how? Right. Like, for example, in my business, I’m often the visionary. I have all these ideas, but I’m not the one to execute it. So even bigger and even bigger than what for our work we talked about because for our work we were still largely a single person business, if I recall correctly, which is fine. It’s a great way to start a side hustle. But, you know, I have teams and I have something like 16 employees or something, which I don’t know, but I should know that here. Just think of it like how many mentees can you handle?

Wayne Hillier [00:10:28] I have a number. I have a number, but. Yeah.

Erwin Szeto [00:10:30] All right. But could you imagine having 20 mentees?

Wayne Hillier [00:10:33] I take up way too much of my time. Right. So at some point, I’m stretched out so thin that I’m not offering the best the best service. Right. I’m not. I’m not serving them the best I could. So, yeah, you’re right.

Erwin Szeto [00:10:43] And then at some natural point, usually your best mentee will want to do the same job and go join your company and help make you handle like six. What are the numbers for sharing? That’s how you grow and that’s your who is not? How do I handle 20 mentees? Who will help me handle a number of mentees so that I can grow and help more people.

Wayne Hillier [00:11:05] Making notes already from my own.

Erwin Szeto [00:11:07] Research? This is your show. There’s actually Russell Westcott that told me like he’s a top five book, tough guy. But we’re not Albert and Sullivan.

Wayne Hillier [00:11:14] Not how I am writing that down. And everyone who is listening should be writing that down, too.

Erwin Szeto [00:11:18] I did the audiobook because the author does the reading, and it’s not that long. It’s not that long. My whole team’s reading it now. So, you know, just we’re on the same page.

Wayne Hillier [00:11:27] That’s good, because, yeah, I love audiobooks, but I hate listening audiobooks where the author isn’t reading it. You know what I mean? Some guy on the staff is just not as enthusiastic about it. Mm hmm.

Erwin Szeto [00:11:38] Yeah. Be careful of Bitcoin standards. Because of. The dry subject. That’s a dry subject.

Wayne Hillier [00:11:43] But no.

Erwin Szeto [00:11:44] Let’s hear about Islamic financing, because for the listeners benefit, I believe it’s people who practice this faith. They’re not allowed to pay interest or lend for interest. Is that is that the problem that you’re solving?

Wayne Hillier [00:11:57] That’s the basics of it. Obviously, there’s a lot more to it. There’s a lot of acts that are forbidden in the Koran. And because of that, in order to honor your faith, you know, interest is forbidden, like I said, among other things. But because of that and I learned this through my contractor, my contractor reached out to me and asked me if I would ever consider doing Islamic financing because he knew I was into creative real estate and strategies and rent on and that kind of stuff. And I’m like, What the heck is that? Yeah. You’ve asked.

Erwin Szeto [00:12:24] Everyone. And now you’re coming to me, aren’t you? Which of course you don’t. You don’t look like you’re the guy that practices Islam.

Wayne Hillier [00:12:33] That’s it. Like, it’s not to say that I’m ignorant, just. I just don’t know. I’m not part of the culture. I’m not part of that faith, the religion that you were born into. But I was intrigued and we had a bunch of meetings and he gave me the basics of it. And, you know, what he explained to me was that most families will never have the benefit of owning their own home because of the fact they can’t get a mortgage. So what most families do is they save their entire life until they can buy a house all cash. Can you imagine how long that takes on a normal dual income, like even a good dual income family? Like, how much can you realistically save? And to try and save your whole life for $400,000? It’s ridiculous. It actually it really bothered me. It wasn’t necessarily an opportunity in my eyes. It was like that really bothers me that no one has figured out a way to do this. It’s not like me.

Erwin Szeto [00:13:21] Went playing.

Wayne Hillier [00:13:22] Field. Oh, no, it’s not fair. And why haven’t why haven’t big lenders figured out a way to do this yet? It’s not that hard. I mean, I figured it out. And who the heck am I? Some real estate investor. But obviously, you know, some of the tools and the strategies and the things that I’ve learned along the way. I put a lot of things together that have that I’ve used in the past through building my portfolio. And I met a lot of great people and I connected with the right people and we made it work. We developed a way to do it. We are the only ones in Canada that are offering it this way. There are a few other smaller companies in Toronto that are offering it, but it’s a different structure, it’s a different way of lending. There’s lots of different ways to do Islamic financing, but we’re super proud about it. I mean, I’ve always believed that if you can create a business where you can help people at the same time, I mean, that’s the best possible business. That’s how I built my whole portfolio. My business, you know, other business is that I always wanted to help people. I didn’t want to take advantage of people. So I’m super passionate and I’m super proud of, you know, what we’ve created and we’re helping a lot of great families.

Erwin Szeto [00:14:24] So a friend of mine told me it disqualifies. So a friend of mine was negotiating a VTB, a vendor take back mortgage with the seller is providing part of the financing for an apartment building and they couldn’t come to terms on the interest because the seller, for example, wanted monthly payments.

Wayne Hillier [00:14:40] Right.

Erwin Szeto [00:14:41] And then my friend, the buyer came back with, how about I just pay more for the apartment building? That way you can now. Now it’s capital gains for you. Instead of paying off out of town, please seek professional advice. Go talk to your account. So let’s just assume now the seller is now capital gains for them. So they pay less tax versus interest on a vendor take back mortgage. It would that be an example of a workaround of or is that.

Wayne Hillier [00:15:05] Very, very similar? There’s a lot of moving pieces and obviously there’s a lot of intellectual property as well. I need to make sure that I don’t give out too much. I don’t recommend anyone go and just try this because you heard it on some podcasts. But, you know, I think the whole point is to inspire others to know that, you know, there’s way more to real estate investing than you think. But to answer your question, what you explain was, was mirabai, which is which is the name of our business, Mirabai Homes. And it’s just a different way of calculating profit. So banks and lenders, what they do is they charge interest rate this charge, semi compounding interest, and that’s how they make their money. Whereas, you know, if you have a certain profit that you want to make, you can just structure it a different way to structure it in a way of mirabai as a cost plus profit. So you have your cost of your property, plus you mark it up and you don’t charge any interest. Very, very simple stuff. I say it’s simple, but, you know, there’s a lot of it. There’s a lot more to it. But I mean, that’s essentially, you know, what a lot of investors do. That’s what some families do. There’s lots of different ways to do it. I mean, in the form of B2B is one way. Yeah, that’s how it works essentially is a cost plus profit financing structure.

Erwin Szeto [00:16:12] Right, for the novice investors listening. Just imagine. So you have a hundred grand fee houses for cheap again down payments really 20 grand. So you can buy it. You can potentially buy five houses, right. Assuming the tenant, the rent covers all your expenses and give you cash flow, why not? Versus if you if you only have one down payment for one property, you have one property, one versus five properties who’s like, we want to win the game of investing. It’s not a fair fight.

Wayne Hillier [00:16:40] Yeah.

Erwin Szeto [00:16:40] That’s while. Can you touch on the reason why interest is not allowed and that religion.

Wayne Hillier [00:16:46] A I don’t I don’t want to claim to be an expert. I’m not Muslim, but I’ve done a ton of research. I mean, ultimately, at the end of the day, the Koran, the Bible, the Torah, they were all written. And my understanding is it was all written as a set of rules. And also they just wanted everyone to be good people. And some things have changed over time. You know, the Bible’s been rewritten and everything else. But the Koran, it just, you know, basically said that they don’t want someone to benefit from someone else’s misfortune. Right. They didn’t want someone to make money because someone else was in an unfortunate situation. Now, I know. I know. And I’m probably referring to the.

Erwin Szeto [00:17:27] Term not any company.

Wayne Hillier [00:17:30] In a perfect world, if I lend you $20 and you said you’re going to pay me back tomorrow, you came back tomorrow, why should I be charging you anything? And if you do need it for a little bit longer and it’s a benefit to me or not a benefit to me and a benefit to you, then. Then we’ll work out something where you say, you know, you lend me 20 and I’ll give you a 22 back. That’s cool, that’s great. But sneaking in semi compounding interest and stuff like that where you’re, you know, the way that it’s calculated, basically.

Erwin Szeto [00:17:55] You’re terrible in this industry.

Wayne Hillier [00:17:57] Where one buys a house and they’re like, Yeah, I got my beautiful house and they sign a mortgage contract. They don’t read it. You have no idea what any of it is, and that’s kind of a bit like you. You should be open and transparent about what it is that you’re doing for someone. If there’s rules, they should know it and don’t just kind of swindle people into things. So it’s all just about being a good person. You can make profit off of offering a service, but it should be open, it should be transparent. And that’s essentially, you know, why interest was forbidden. I won’t go any deeper into that because like I said, I’m not an expert. But that’s why we structured it in a way that honors the Islamic faith. So now people can actually own a home and like, it’s a sorry minute. It really bothers me. It really bothers me. Like, you would not believe how many people apply like me. The demand is crazy. There are so many people who are saving and they have large, large amounts of money that are just struggling. There’s just no other options. And there are a few companies and they’re taking advantage of people. It’s a really sad situation, but we’re glad they were able to help.

Erwin Szeto [00:18:58] To me, there’s nothing wrong with being a renter, but, you know, to be a renter for life and then all generations being renters for life, that’s not a way to get ahead. It’s not a formula to get ahead in life.

Wayne Hillier [00:19:09] It’s yeah, the cards are stacked against them. But at the same time, I actually I admire the dedication. I admire the dedication of saving your whole life for something that means that much to you. I’m I’ve always admired people who are dedicated to things. And that’s this one thing that I really loved about it. And that’s why I love helping people, you know, who are halfway saving. I mean, they’ve got 100, $200,000 in the bank and that can help them. Yeah.

Wayne Hillier [00:19:34] Oh so I. Get a little emotional about it.

Erwin Szeto [00:19:36] It’s okay. Subject is religious. Yeah you are. And are experts in that area.

Wayne Hillier [00:19:42] Yeah.

Erwin Szeto [00:19:43] Let’s talk about real estate because were you investing when you used to live in St Catherine’s, Ontario? Did you ever invest well in Ontario?

Wayne Hillier [00:19:49] No, I didn’t.

Erwin Szeto [00:19:50] I’m like.

Wayne Hillier [00:19:54] I’m from St Catherine’s and I moved here when I. 21 to Edmonton, Alberta. And at that time, I you know, I was I was in school and it was really digging it. And then I left and I was pumping gas. And I just kind of had that moment where I’m like, I don’t what am I doing? All my friends were all engineers and they’re all almost on school. And I’m like, Oh man, what do I do with my life? And yeah, that’s why I decided to move to Alberta.

Erwin Szeto [00:20:20] What was the pull about? You know.

Wayne Hillier [00:20:22] Alberta. A lot of investors, a lot of real estate investors are poker players. I was always a poker player as an online poker player, just a dumb kid and, you know, racking up debt on credit cards and just not making good choices. But I was good at it, don’t get me wrong. But, you know, I had a shift. The next morning at like 7 a.m. and it was 1230 at night. And I lost the tournament. It was right outside the bubble. I didn’t make money and I played for hours. And I look and then I go and I, you know, it’s just dumb kid stuff. You know, you extend the limit on your credit card trying to call a credit card, extend the limit to get a little more money. I was just not making good life choices and I’d always kind of hit a low. I’m like, I I’m living in my grandmother’s basement, and I just did not feel good about myself. And ironically, there was a guy who was who had just come back from Alberta who had worked at the gas station that I was working on. He went to Alberta and him, you know, just he did it, you know what I mean? He moved out there with his family, got a great job, turned his life around. I mean, some things happened and his wife leaving him, but he just come back and this is one of his first night shifts at the gas station. So I’m like, I’m going down there to talk to him, see what this whole Alberta things all know. And so, yeah, I drove down the gas station at 1230 at night and went and chatted with him. And he really helped me out. And, you know, he told me what it was all about and, you know, what to look out for and, you know, things I should do and stuff like that. And I ended up talking to him for two, 3 hours. And then I just made the choice. I moved in a week and a half. I got 2 hours of sleep. I went to my shift in the morning and then I just decided the next day I was I’m moving Alberta. I’m going to tend to change my life. So it was good to create some for myself, you know, family, friends. There’s always people kind of holding you back, you know, the limiting beliefs of what they think that you can do, you know what I mean? You kind of just need to break through that and just kind of not look back and just start something for yourself without those without those restrictions. You know what I mean? It was one of the biggest moments of my life. I mean, those most impactful moments in my life. I moved out two weeks later. My neighbor I met my wife. She was my neighbor. Just by coincidence, I was invited up to a party next door and it was her birthday. And we met and we hit it off and we’ve been together ever since. So yeah, it was, it was it was big. Was big, got my job, created my career. It wasn’t until about four or five years later that we started investing. My wife and I, we did really good. We were really great for each other, you know, we were dumb and young at that particular time. And what we did was we kind of matured each other, you know what I mean? We b we really started working on our careers. I changed my career. I got into it. Ah, well, inspection. She was doing amazing things but working her way up the corporate ladder for some three boutique hotels in town. And we just, we were hitting that ceiling and we’re like, Well, what do we do next? I got my tickets. She was a revenue manager and I had a really nice hotel and we just didn’t see anything higher than that other than the next level of management, you know what I mean? So yeah, I actually I was at a, I was working on a job and there was a guy there and he was talking about real estate investing and he was talking about real estate investment network and how he had properties and stuff. So we weren’t doing very much and I just picked his brain for a couple hours. He gave me a couple of books and that’s again, that was another one of those moments that really kind of changed. It just happened to be in the right spot at the right time or the right thing. And then I’m extremely grateful for him and what he did for me, because he set me on a different path and came home and told my wife, we’re going to be real estate investors just like everybody else. Right. You know, you have that moment and then you go home and you’re like, Honey, honey.

Erwin Szeto [00:23:50] You’re the aha moment. Do you remember books those were.

Wayne Hillier [00:23:54] I was real estate investing in Canada the acres system by Don Campbell the same one that every real estate investor reads first.

Erwin Szeto [00:24:00] It’s actually it’s either it’s usually that one or rich dad poor dad.

Wayne Hillier [00:24:06] Yeah and rich dad was one of the next ones I read and then JV secrets and yeah there’s.

Erwin Szeto [00:24:12] No TV secrets. So your uncle was.

Wayne Hillier [00:24:16] Yeah, yeah. That’s a great book. I recommend that all the time. Awesome. Those were the first books. And then, you know, we ended up joining the real estate investment network shortly after that. Bought a property. Yeah.

Erwin Szeto [00:24:27] The yours that you joined.

Wayne Hillier [00:24:29] We bought a property before real estate investment. I work. I can’t remember. It’s 2015 I think we joined 2016 and we bought our first property in 2013. We’re slow to start.

Erwin Szeto [00:24:41] How old were you in 2013?

Wayne Hillier [00:24:43] Great question. 26. 25.

Erwin Szeto [00:24:47] That’s not bad for starting.

Wayne Hillier [00:24:49] You know, you always know late.

Erwin Szeto [00:24:50] Thirties we start in their late thirties, they wait until they have kids and then you get a little bit older. They’re not like. Your kids are in school so they can get hard core parenting.

Wayne Hillier [00:25:02] You always look back and you think, Oh, man, why didn’t I do this sooner? Right? Because I had another moment along the way where like things, you know, you get that one property, you go to that one seminar or that one coach, that just changes everything. And then it’s like this huge success, like rapid success, you know, with that first one, it was slow and then it took us some time. We’re trying to figure out how to get the next one. How do we save? What the heck is joint ventures? How do you raise money? That kind of stuff. So we had a bit of a bit of a roadblock there, just trying to get to the next step. But we got through it.

Erwin Szeto [00:25:32] I promise you, another aha moment when I drag you into stock options.

Wayne Hillier [00:25:36] Man, like you keep telling me about it and it’s like, I really do want to know more. The problem is, the second I know more, I’m going to go. I’m going to go that direction. And I’m like, Wayne, focus. Yeah, focus.

Erwin Szeto [00:25:48] When you’re ready, when you’re ready, but you’ll be 200%.

Wayne Hillier [00:25:51] I’m going to put it I’m going to put this business on autopilot. And then that’s the next thing I work on because I’m man, I’m obsessed with growth like I am. I’m a competitor. Like, I want to go and challenge something. I want to defeat it, and then I want to move on to something else constantly. Constantly. I always want to be like the best version of myself. So, you know, as soon as this business is up and running, this is a this is a big mountain I’m climbing right now. Once this is up and running, it’s automated 100%. That’s next. I’m going to help.

Erwin Szeto [00:26:17] My friend who is Muslim says that margin is okay. That’s margins. My friend’s opinion, he’s I don’t know if he’s an expert. That’s his opinion. It’s not my opinion.

Wayne Hillier [00:26:26] I don’t want to I don’t want to make any yeah. I don’t want to make any claims that offend anyone. But it really comes down to it. It comes down to terminology, right? So it comes down to the way that it’s structured. But it is important to a lot of.

Erwin Szeto [00:26:36] People, especially if it’s an impediment to you doing what you want. Oh, I lost where I was going. Oh, okay. Tell me about that first investment property in 2013.

Wayne Hillier [00:26:45] It wasn’t good. It was it wasn’t exciting. It’s. We had this excitement. Yeah. We had no education. You know, it’s, it’s funny when you I trying to tell people this now and I think back to like what I ever got a coach or taken a ten $15,000 course when I first started, when I had ten, $15,000, I said, no, that’s my down payment money. Why would I go pay someone? Right. But, you know, looking back on it, I really wish I would have because I mean, I thought I could do it all myself. And I bought a house. I’m like, Oh, it’s a great idea. Let’s, let’s buy a place that has a separate entrance and, and a suite downstairs that way, you know, two for the price of one. But, you know, I hired the realtor that that was a referral from someone at work. And because of that, you know, we told the realtor what we wanted, but the realtor didn’t really know about the legalities of it. She told us, Oh, yeah, for sure. This is a great price. It’s, you know, it’s going to bring in this much rent. She didn’t know whether it was legal or not. Right. She wasn’t an investment realtor. So we ended up buying, you know, a suite that was that was not legal. So we didn’t learn that until till after we bought it. Oh, I mean, is it wrong to rent out something that’s non-conforming? Lots of people do. But that was an extra $25,000 to get that up to code. So we weren’t planning for that that. And so we made a big mistake on that. But we still have that property. I love it. I mean, it’s it cash flows really well, but we made a lot of mistakes on that one.

Erwin Szeto [00:28:20] Yeah, I don’t get why people make that mistake. They just go with whoever rather than an agent actually knows what they’re doing. Right, because getting it wrong, doing it wrong is really expensive. Doing it right the first time will propel you to that next property so much faster.

Wayne Hillier [00:28:38] It’s man, it is frustrating. It’s frustrating now having conversations and new people to and you want to give them the right advice like, oh no, it’s okay. This person says that they that they own rental properties or this person says, Oh yeah, we do investments. I’m like, Oh yeah, yeah, it is what it is. I mean, place for decisions, you know, you can, you can take the advice from the experts or you can try and do it on your own. I did it. I’m a victim of it. Most people do. They try and figure it out on their own. I can do this. I got YouTube, but know you live and you learn.

Erwin Szeto [00:29:09] The show will be on YouTube for going to steer everyone in the wrong direction. The property worked out after you had a surprise. $25,000 renovation.

Wayne Hillier [00:29:23] Yeah, I mean, that we overpaid for it at that point. It was it was overpaid for you know, what I love about that property the most is that I did everything wrong, everything all the way that I financed it, putting 5% down. I moved into it right there, a little bit of house hopping, I like to call it, where you move into a house and then you live in it, you know, for a while, a year or two years, whatever. And then you buy another home and you move into that home, right? And it’s obviously you don’t want to endorse this strategy, but a lot of people do it to take advantage of only having to put 5% down. Lots of people ask that question. So I did that. And that was a big mistake because when you leverage yourself that much, that 95% loan to value the mortgage payments are higher. So it can cash flow as well. I mean, just everything the tenants that we put in at the beginning and the area we bought it and the things that I said I would finish, you know, all the things I said I would repair that I didn’t repair it. It just every possible wrong thing. And then our market went down slightly, right? So that properties dropped 15% approximately. It’s gone down. What I love the most about it is that with all those things that I did wrong, I still made money on it. Still. Right. And that’s what I love about real estate, is that you have to really, really effort and try to lose money if you buy in a good market. If you buy in a good market, it’s mortgage paydown. So long as you know, the house doesn’t depreciate more than the mortgage paydown, you’re going to break even. It’s still cash flows. You know, it pays us after repairs and maintenance and vacancy, it still it pays this money every month. So I like that property. It’s a reminder that that’s why I love real estate. It didn’t make as much as it should have, but it didn’t lose money. It’s a good investment.

Erwin Szeto [00:31:13] So now how is that first property compared to the types of investments your investments are doing now?

Wayne Hillier [00:31:18] They’re legal now. If we went through a phase, not a phase like we’re on, we’re on a journey. Obviously, when you start out, you have limited resources, you have limited cash, you load a mortgage and mortgage ability, limited experience, education. So as we’ve grown, you know, our resources, whether that be intellectually education, finances, relationships, you know, joint ventures, we’ve gone out and we tried, we graduated different strategies. So we started off by buying some just cash flowing rentals. And then we got into renovations and flipping. Then we got into adding secondary suites and doing bursts, and then we started learning how to use creative strategies. Like in Alberta, it’s very popular. In Alberta is agreement for sales. We took a course on that and we really ran with that so that that there enabled us to start buying properties for zero money down where the seller would carry the financing. So that was huge. That right there was actually what really took us off. And ultimately that’s my main favorite strategy now is the agreement for sales strategy and then also rent to own as well. Because I mean, if you can if you can utilize having the seller carrying the financing and also getting into it for less than 20% down, I mean, it’s a huge, huge opportunity. You jump, you combine.

Erwin Szeto [00:32:36] Let’s dig into the strategy.

Erwin Szeto [00:32:37] Yeah. Okay. So I think we have a few listeners from Ontario, so they probably never seen their government for sale.

Wayne Hillier [00:32:45] Right. It’s confusing.

Erwin Szeto [00:32:46] Do agree to explain the difference between agreement for sale and agreement of purchase and sale. So agreeing to purchase a sale is pretty much what everyone does here in Ontario. At least it’s like a.

Wayne Hillier [00:32:56] Purchase contract, isn’t that?

Erwin Szeto [00:32:57] Yeah. It’s what realtors traditionally use, right? Yeah. I’ve never seen a realtor holding a manifest agreement for sale. That’s my own experience. I’m familiar and familiar with them because I probably know the person, I know the people. I teach this, you know? Yes, I’m a big run, the grandstand as well.

Wayne Hillier [00:33:14] So that’s where a lot of Ontario investors really get confused because they’re like, What do you mean a purchase contract? How to use a purchase contract? What the agreement for sale is more popular in Saskatchewan, B.C, in Alberta. But what it is essentially is you, the seller keeps the mortgage and the title in their name. You know, they’ve got their mortgage contract with their terms, their amortization, their interest rates, everything else. What they do is they give you a separate contract that is completely separate from that, and they give you essentially a loan, almost like a mortgage, where it outlines the term, the amortization, the interest payments, the payments. And what you do is you make payments to them and then they make payments to their underlying mortgage. In a very basic example, if the seller had a mortgage on a house, say the mortgage for $300,000, 3% interest over 30 years, and their payment was 1200 dollars a month. They would give you the exact same terms, 300,003% over 30 years, 12 in our payments. So I make my I make my 1200 dollars payment to them and then they make their 1200 dollars payment to their mortgage lender. So their mortgage goes down at the exact same pace and rate as ours. So in essence, we are getting the mortgage paid out. So it’s a really cool way to help sellers out. I mean, there’s lots of different ways you can help sellers where this would benefit them. And it’s great for us because obviously, you know, you can you can negotiate the terms of, you know, the down payment, the interest rate. There’s so many different creative ways you can you can use this.

Erwin Szeto [00:34:49] What’s the reasoning for the seller selling.

Wayne Hillier [00:34:52] Typically motivation, right? I don’t like using the word desperation, but motivation. A great example is maybe, you know, they just bought a house and this is the example that I normally target. They just bought a house less than a year ago and they locked into a five year fixed term with their mortgage lender. And as you know, you know, lenders, if you’re in a fixed term, typically they won’t charge three months interest penalty. What they’ll charge is an interest rate differential. So it’s a calculation that they use to determine essentially how much interest they lost by you canceling early. And if you break your mortgage term early in a five year term, say, in the first year, the penalties are ridiculous. We’re talking 20, $25,000. So you can imagine a family who just bought their dream home, but something happened, right? Coconut oil, you name it. In Alberta, we’ve had it. So, you know, they’re stuck in a situation where they bought a house and assuming it’s worth the same or a little bit less. You know, you call your realtor, there’s no equity to pay a realtor. The rates are going to be like it’s your mortgage is equal to what you owe. And they call their bank and say, I’m going to be selling the house. And the lender says, okay, but it’s a $25,000 penalty. Plus legal families in a really, really bad situation. Right. It’s a really awkward situation because they can’t do anything. Their only option is to rent. And, you know, they probably didn’t buy that rental or they probably didn’t buy that home with the intent of renting. So will the rent the market rent cover those expenses? Probably not. So, you know, they lost their job and they’ve got no options. That can’t be the mortgage payment. They’re in a real pickle. So that’s why we’re able to come in and offer, Hey, I can take over your payments and take this off your hands. Right. And then, you know, us real estate investors, you know, sophisticated real estate investors, you know, we have the expertise, the education, in order to turn this lemons into lemonade, essentially. You know, you can utilize things like rent to own. We can turn into a rental property. It might be negative cashflow, but at the end of the day, for me, I mean, I got into it for zero money down. I’m okay floating it by 100 bucks a month. No big deal. I get all the benefits, the mortgage paydown, all the benefits, the appreciation. That’s a great investment for me. Zero money. All I got to invest is my time, right? Yeah. It’s a really good strategy that’s utilized in Alberta. I mean, like I said, we’ve been hit with so many different things over the last 8 to 10 years between, you know, the floods and the fires and the oil and COVID and everything else. There’s no shortage of people to help. And that’s why I love doing it is because, again, it’s I love creating businesses where you can make it a win, where you can help people. Right. And I don’t target people and try and convince them to do something like this. I target families that, you know, that could really use our help and that, you know, I possess the skills in order to make it a win.

Erwin Szeto [00:37:32] I imagine a lot of them are moving home as well where it can live rent free.

Wayne Hillier [00:37:35] Like 90% of the deals I did not necessarily moving home, but like a lot of them were like moving back east. So there’s a lot of people from out east and then Alberta, some people were moving west. You know, if you lost your job and you got no prospects, it’s very likely you’re just going to move back home to where you’re from. And it’s again, like they don’t want to be landlords from across the country. So huge opportunities make sense. You mentioned Lauren Legrand, obviously, you know, he was teaching, I don’t know, way back. Jerry Maguire. I got to give a shout out to Barry Maguire. I mean, he’s the one that trained us, human taught us. And I owe him and his wife, Donna, a ton, because obviously, if they had they not taught us this, I don’t think we wouldn’t have reached a fraction of our success without their education. Great courses. Mm hmm.

Erwin Szeto [00:38:20] Do you think this would work in Ontario?

Wayne Hillier [00:38:22] Yep. 100%. There’s just different ways. I mean, like that that specific scenario doesn’t necessarily work in Ontario, because I think we were talking about it off air there. I mean, Ontario’s hot on fire. I hear it, you know.

Erwin Szeto [00:38:39] For a condo, not a detached house in St Catherine’s, Ontario.

Wayne Hillier [00:38:45] Yeah. Yeah, it’s a strategy. It’s a tool. Right. And it’s a problem solving tool. And I utilize this specific problem to solve in my market. But your market is very different. I mean, another great way of using it is, is to for cheaper financing, say, for flippers. Right. A lot of flippers and investors, they look for TD’s and typically B-to-B. The seller would have to have equity in order to the lender. Right. But if you can imagine, instead of going getting a private loan for ten, 15%. Right. Private financing to do your flip, imagine asking the seller, hey, instead, would you mind carrying the financing for me for 3 to 6 months at your super low? Two or 3%? Imagine the savings. And also, it’s a great negotiating arm. I’m going to go down some and get all passionate about this. I love it because imagine how much money you’re saving in interest over that six month period. What, ten grand probably right now you can offer that seller an extra $10,000. It’s six and a half dozen. You’re giving it because you might be negotiating with that seller and maybe they say, oh, no, I want $10,000 more. You’re like, I can give you an extra $10,000, but here’s what I need. I need you to carry the financing. Just keep the mortgage in your name. The title. I’m going to continue making you payments every month. You’re going to get your payments, but I want you to carry for me for six months that unfair, fair. Huge opportunities. So there’s lots of different cool ways you can use it. That’s what I love about it’s not just one. There’s not just one cookie cutter way of using it. I’ve developed so many different cool ways of using the strategy, not only for buying but for selling as well. I’m going to start get really passionate.

Erwin Szeto [00:40:20] That’s okay. If people are folks are interested, they can always reach out to you.

Wayne Hillier [00:40:24] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Erwin Szeto [00:40:25] As you see it in multifamily, usually multifamily, vacant land, all the stuff the bankers want to touch. Yeah. It’s not that the bankers won’t touch multifamily, it’s just usually the investor needs it usually needs to be TV. And also what seller does want to try to sell for a higher price. Absolutely. Okay.

Wayne Hillier [00:40:46] You touched on the fact that the bank didn’t want to touch it. And the reason actually agreement for sale is a very old strategy from like the fifties. It was used when banks were required 50% down. Right. So back in the day before all the insurance and everything else and, you know, World War Two and everyone became to birthright to have a homes where everyone could get, you know, insured mortgages. The banks used to require a lot of money in like 50% down. And because of that, most families couldn’t afford it. So that’s where they got creative and they created that agreement for sale contracts where the seller could be your bank essentially, and not ask to actually have the equity. Very, very, very cool stuff, right? Yeah.

Erwin Szeto [00:41:27] I see so many examples. And like for example, I was looking at buying a timeshare, for example, if you’re going to go look for a timeshares, there’s lots of people who have no more need for the timeshare and they don’t want the negative cash flow anymore, you know, flows every year, the commitment, the maintenance fees, especially if they’re not able to use it. So it’s kind of the same thing. But the seller is no longer able to use the home as well. Just someone else to take over the payments.

Wayne Hillier [00:41:49] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Erwin Szeto [00:41:51] Good stuff. And then before we were recording, we were talking about you have do you call them coaching clients or mentees? And also we had Mike always heard on the show not too long ago. So his mentees live in his basement. Is that your guess as well?

Wayne Hillier [00:42:04] No, no. I don’t think my wife would like that, by the way. Very cool stuff. I love the stuff that Mike does. He said tastic. You know, I don’t like the word coaching. I don’t know. Maybe it’s just the way I used to like. Yeah. And it’s I think coaching slightly different than mentorship. Right. And that’s what I wanted to me wanted to distinguish. The difference was that I don’t want to teach someone how to do something. I want to inspire someone; I want to support them. I want to mentor them. And like, I don’t teach strategies. Like if you want to learn a strategy, go take a course. Like, don’t like don’t sign up for like monthly calls with me and then use your one monthly call. I want our monthly call to learn one hour rent to own. Right. It’s going to take you eight months. Right, to get to that point where why don’t you go take a 300 or 300 or eight hour course? Right. And that’s the way to do it for me. I’m setting people up for success. Like, oh, let me ask you this. I mean, like, what separates you from like the thousands of other investors that come through our circle? So like we have the same circles, right? Everybody has this. They’re rich dad, poor dad. And they’re like, I’m going to be a real estate investor. I’m going to have 100 properties. I’m going to make $10,000 a month in cash for literally every person says that. How come they don’t? How did you become Mr. Hamilton? How did you become the stock hacker? How did you become you?

Erwin Szeto [00:43:24] What separate would you say? One thing is, I’m committed to learning. Yeah, like you talk about rain, for example. Like I’ve been around, I was remember since 2008 and I was a member for ten years and for the first probably five years, maybe eight years, I think I missed a total of three meetings, monthly meeting. Yeah. So I don’t know many people that would’ve had a better attendance record than I did. And when I did miss it, because I was playing vacation. It’s like, I’m sure.

Wayne Hillier [00:43:53] You know, I’m fascinated by I’m fascinated, but like I’m on social media way more than I should be and I shouldn’t be spending all that time, you know, trying to figure out, you know, this this weird fascination I have or why people are successful. Like, why do some people excel more than others? They all start off the same. They all sound the same. They all say the same things. But some people go and they do more. And to be honest, I think that some people have a stronger Y than others. It’s vision. It comes down to vision. And that’s what I figured out. And I didn’t want to become a coach. Lots of people ask me if I coach them. And I said, no, I’m not going to. I don’t think it works. The only way that I’d do it is if I’d structure in a way that I think you’re actually successful. And I mimicked it around essentially the way that I think, the way that I operate, the way the successful people operate. And it all starts with vision. It all starts with your why it is be super powerful and then you work backwards from there. How do I get to that life? How do I get to that point where I can wake up every day doing the things that I want to do? How do you make every morning, like Christmas morning? That’s what I that’s the example I like to use. It’s like, you know, the feeling on Christmas morning where you’re like, it’s 4:00, mom, can we wake up yet? Not till six. This is where that. Feeling when you’re going on vacation or it’s like you can’t you have that like you want to get up, you know what I mean? Because you’re going on that, you know, getting on your flight. That’s what I want to feel like every goddamn day. And I think if you have a strong enough Y and it’s believable and you have a good roadmap and a plan, I feel like that’s what that’s what keeps successful people on their path, their y something that drives them right. And I mean, along the way, it’s really good to try and try and figure out a way to feel like that along the journey as well. It’s not necessarily about just getting to that point 20 years later where you live in that nice house, you know, in that nice car. Ooh, I feel good about my morning. I want to live that way every day. So, I mean, that’s what my mentorship is all about, is about figuring out that vision and then focusing in on exactly what needs to be done in order to get there. So we’re reverse engineering it and then inspiring, right? Inspiring the hustle, inspiring people to do those little daily actions every day in order to get them to that. It’s pretty cool. It’s my passion, man. I love it. This is me every day. I love it. And now I get to share it with other people. I get to see other people having those same successes. I get to see other people having those aha moments like, holy crap, right? And then implementing it and then just like, yeah, just watching, watching people’s growth is just, oh man, this is the eighth habit, right? That’s the Stephen Covey, you know, said. And he had his seven habits of highly affected people. The eighth habit was contribution. And there’s nothing better than giving back and sharing what you’ve learned along the way with other people that.

Erwin Szeto [00:46:33] You see growth. What areas of growth are you looking for from your mentees or what areas of growth they are your mentees working on?

Wayne Hillier [00:46:40] I mean, it’s mostly personal growth. I don’t I don’t like how ministers overused personal growth mindset. It’s personal growth becoming the person that you need to become right to fit that role. Right. It’s why do all successful people read so many gosh darn books? Funny. Yeah, it was nothing. It fascinated me. And like you study successful people, you study, you know, the greats, and they’re all avid readers because they’re constantly trying to become the best version of themselves. And successful people are all. They’re all wired the same way. Mm hmm. I want more people to be like that.

Erwin Szeto [00:47:16] I think I trying to read to be successful. I’m more like I’m trying to find better practices and to be to answer questions.

Wayne Hillier [00:47:22] I have for sure learn capable of learning, right. Receptive to it. And not just I see so many people that, like, finish high school and that is literally the last thing they ever learn other than their trade. Right. That’s actually what bothered me when I was 21 and I was in my days. Now I’m like, is this it is it like, seriously, I’m 21 years old and I’m working 36 hours at a gas station like this. I made some bad decisions, but like this can’t be final, right? And then that was the first good decision that I ever made in my life. As I said that I was not going to ever do that again. I was not ever going to have that feeling again. So it constantly became learning at that point. I mean, learning how to get to Alberta. Well, where should I go? Where is there more opportunities? Clearly, there’s no prospects here. Where do I need to go? Ask myself the question, figure out to my research. I drove down to a gas station to talk to some guy that used to live in Alberta. I figured that was better than the Internet. And, you know, I learned some things and I moved out there. I learned my craft and learned my trade. I did really good. I made a lot of money. I mean, I built a career within a couple of years that paid me six figures, but that wasn’t enough. I said to keep going, keep going, keep going, keep on. Constantly learning, constantly building, constantly growing. That’s what I’m obsessed with. I’m just like, It doesn’t sound good when you say you’re obsessed with growth, but like I said, I’m obsessed with being the best version of myself. I’m going to build this Islamic financing business and now I’m going to put it on autopilot. I’m going to build something else.

Erwin Szeto [00:48:46] Right. You have a daughter, right?

Wayne Hillier [00:48:48] Yep.

Erwin Szeto [00:48:49] What are you teaching her so that she doesn’t end up asking yourself 21. Is this it?

Wayne Hillier [00:48:55] Is this. So you see these logos all over the screen here. The real estate investor, dad, I mean, it’s one of the big reasons I started the podcast was what am I teaching her? I’m teaching her everything that I know. I’m giving her the best opportunities, right? And teaching her the things that I wasn’t talking, whether she implements them or not is entirely up to her. But I’m giving her the chance. My wife is teaching her the complete opposite. That’s not to say that she’s doing the wrong thing and I’m doing the right thing. But as you can tell them, a very logical person and my wife is very emotional and in a good way, and it’s a yin and yang for us. So my wife teaches our daughter that she’s enough. And I teach my daughter that she could be so much more, which is a little conflicting. We literally just had an argument about this the other morning. But you know what? I think that I think she’s absolutely right. I want my daughter to feel, you know, not feel like she’s not good enough. But at the same time, I want her to know that she has the ability to grow. She can be a better version of herself. Mm hmm. That’s what we’re trying to teach her. She is. She’s right in it with our business. She’s there changing filters with us. You know what I mean? She’s changing locks when we do it. We’re not doing it so much anymore. But, you know, it’s all about giving her the opportunities and teaching her the things that, like I said, that we never learn, that we were never exposed to. And then at least the very least, she has that education. What if she decides to go that route and she can do whatever she wants? Kids, she is smart. She’s a really smart kid and she can do some great things. It’s pretty cool. Yeah. And the real estate investor dad podcast, you know, I touched on that. That’s I started that because you go into any real estate investment group or webinar or a meeting or anything along those lines events. And typically if you were to ask everybody in the room, you know, what’s the three things that are preventing them from getting their next piece of real estate? It’s always money, mortgages and time. Right. And the different educators in the country, they always tend to gravitate and focus on the first two, which is money raising capital and mortgages. But no one really talks about the time aspect. Right. And one of the most popular ones or, you know, common responses is, is I got kids, I got a dog, I got a job. How the hell am I supposed to have time to do this? Who’s going to invest with me? And that’s why I started the podcast, because I wanted to show examples of people and techniques and strategies and routines that did successful dads and moms and employees and dog owners use to win. Right. It’s for every excuse that I hear, I can name you 3 to 5 people that have had the exact same excuse and they have overcome. And so the podcast is, is, is an education platform but it’s also to inspire inspired it to show that other people have done it too. And yeah, I mean, the logo is has a cute little cartoon logo of myself and my daughter and one of our innovations. But yeah, I’m super proud of that. I came every year on air, off air. I talked about the fact that I haven’t put an episode out in almost four weeks. I’ve just been so busy. But I really need to put more energy into that because obviously a lot of people have reached out and then they’ve really they’ve taken a lot from it and it’s inspired a lot of people. So I’m proud of that. Okay, cool.

Erwin Szeto [00:52:23] You might be some people who said of how because people would go digging on YouTube trying to figure out how to do grooming for sale or how to buy a piece of property in Edmonton.

Wayne Hillier [00:52:33] Mm hmm. I mean, if I can inspire one or two people to go and do something really great with their life and live their best life, I mean, why the heck not? It’s only an hour or two of my time. I should be more grateful for that, but I shouldn’t take it for granted. But yeah, it’s. I mean, I would love everyone to be happy. I would love I would love to be able to teach this, you know, teach how to be successful and how to live your best life to everyone. I think everyone deserves to be happy, right? And you look pretty happy.

Erwin Szeto [00:53:01] Amber, we’re having a brilliant year. We were talking before recording about how, you know, many people are suffering. But I was saying to someone, I think yesterday I was having lunch with Jacob Brown yesterday, and I was saying to him, at least I’ve done my part and put out I’ve put out there how to be successful. So I put I’ve done my part. So I never had to feel bad it. Know, the people come to me and say, you know, I’m broke. My you know, my podcast is free.

Wayne Hillier [00:53:32] I, you know.

Erwin Szeto [00:53:34] I’ve done my part and distributing information on how to be successful. And I’ve said before and I’ll say it again, it is easier than ever to learn how to be successful. With the advent of the Internet, podcasts, YouTube easier than.

Wayne Hillier [00:53:49] Ever and going back to it, why don’t people if it’s so easy, it really comes down to just a lot of people give up. It is hard. There’s no doubt about that. It’s hard. But if you can figure out a way to attach it to something that’s meaningful to you in your life, that’s what that’s what helps you endure and overcome it.

Erwin Szeto [00:54:09] Just like if 18 year old was listening to your podcast.

Wayne Hillier [00:54:14] And like one of my mentees is he’s 19 years old and I and I and I hate saying it to him. I hate saying it to him because I know the years and all the time. But like if I was 19, you know, but I shit you not. This guy has got it figured out at 19. Like, I cannot believe it. I’m so proud of him because like, he reached out to me. He reached out to me and said he wanted to learn. He made an investment in himself at 19 years old, like, for God’s sakes. And he’s doing it like he’s got such a good mindset. I don’t know where it came from. I mean, we’ve talked about it. I’ve narrowed it down where it came from. Small moments in his life where someone has said something or he’s experienced something. It’s crazy, but 19 years old and he’s going to be an absolute monster by the time he’s 25. And like, I’m that’s that stuff lights me up. I want to go back because you mentioned your podcast and how you helped out. And I got to say, like, this is actually a huge honor for me because your podcast was one of the first podcasts that I was listening to when I started very hard. It seems like it was only a couple of years ago, but very hard at that time to find good quality real estate investing content and yours. One of the first things I listen to, I massively consumed it and I feel like I’ve come full circle. Were like, finally you have me on the podcast like literally Erwin. Everything I’ve done up until this point has been all to prove to you that I’m worth being on the podcast. And finally I got the call and this is huge. This is huge for me.

Erwin Szeto [00:55:47] To even call it the big.

Wayne Hillier [00:55:48] Leagues. This good man, I feel like I just got into the Hall of Fame. This is just a good feeling.

Erwin Szeto [00:55:56] Yeah. This is virtual, bro. There’s no, like, catered food or, like, leather chairs or nothing.

Wayne Hillier [00:56:05] Is so great. It’s so crazy to see how far you’ve come as well from. Like when I first started watching that. You’re amazing. Thanks. Amazing things.

Erwin Szeto [00:56:13] The mics haven’t gotten any better.

Wayne Hillier [00:56:17] Oh, we got to have a conversation about that, but we’ll talk about this.

Erwin Szeto [00:56:21] Yeah. If you’re looking for Mike Arms, these ones are a pain in the butt.

Wayne Hillier [00:56:25] So does that say Labatt blue on it? Yeah.

Erwin Szeto [00:56:28] No, no, no, no. It’s the same company.

Wayne Hillier [00:56:30] That.

Erwin Szeto [00:56:31] The same company that makes them the Yeti.

Wayne Hillier [00:56:33] Okay, it looks like the same theory finders.

Erwin Szeto [00:56:37] And so you said it.

Wayne Hillier [00:56:38] About blue and hockey. Got it in like a beer case instead of a T-shirt.

Erwin Szeto [00:56:43] No, no one gets promoted on the show for free. We need to pay for this.

Wayne Hillier [00:56:46] Where’s your endorsements? You’ve got. You have endorsements. Oh, man. No, no.

Erwin Szeto [00:56:50] No, no, no, no. This is that’s the name of the company that made this thing come in that makes the Yeti industry. A lot more expensive. You’re telling me that you retreat to the retreat? Oh, for your mentees.

Wayne Hillier [00:57:04] You know, obviously, I talked about the fact that I don’t I didn’t I didn’t want to be a coach because I didn’t have a lot of responsibility. Oh, I.

Erwin Szeto [00:57:10] Want to be there. All these people that do want to become coaches like my wife had a lot of responsibility.

Wayne Hillier [00:57:15] Yeah. Yeah. My wife always tells me I’m too honest on podcasts, to be honest. I think that there’s too many options out there right now, and not many people are actually best suited to be coaches. Just because you own a couple of properties does not make you a good coach. Just because you’ve been successful doesn’t mean you make a good coach. And I didn’t I didn’t want to be that, and I didn’t think the coaching worked either, to be honest. I don’t think it works for, you know, for me to advertise me in a big flashy suit in a car and say, hey, you know, $15,000, come and I’ll teach you how to be successful like me. I don’t believe in that. So the only way that I would do is I said, I’m not going to take your money and I’m going to take the first call of my monthly calls with you and say, okay, what do you want to do? Right. That’s not the best way to do it. You can’t you can’t get to know someone well enough using that structure. And so what we decided to do is instead I want to get to know people. So instead of hopping right into coaching or mentoring, we decided to do is do a cabin retreat. So we do a very small, intimate cabin retreat with less than five people. And, you know, you get in a very nice cabin, fireplace on the lake, everything else. And we spend the whole weekend basically figuring out what is it that you want out of life, right? What what’s that Christmas morning feeling for you? What would get you up every day if you didn’t have to worry about money, house everything else. If you had everything that you needed, retirement, whatever. Like if you if you got your beliefs, what would get you out of bed every morning? That stuff scares the hell out of me, man. It scares the hell out of me. Like 65 and retire. And then you have nothing with no fulfillment, no purpose. So I want to find out what exactly that is that that that really does, you know, what is your purpose? What is most important to you in life and then builds a road map reverse engineer that to determine what it would take in order for us to build a life that would give you that feeling every day. So once we establish that, we had determined, okay, well, how much does that life cost? How much the cost to have that life, how much passive income, how much money do you need in the bank? Okay, now we’ve got to figure I mean, we have we have the solution now. We just have to solve for X and Y. It’s very simple. How do we do that? Which real estate vehicle are we going to use? Are we going to use multifamily or going to use like long term rentals or we do private lending? And how much do you know how many of those? So now we got your vehicle. How much does that cost? $4 million. You have $4 million? No. Okay. Well, how are we going to get that forming dollars? You work your way back. It’s just mathematics. And how long do you want? How long will it take or how long do you want before you can have that life? It just is solving for solving for X and Y. And we determine what is the best possible route for you to take in order to get you there and the time that you want to do that. And we just develop a road map, just like with stops along the way. What are your resources now? Nothing. Okay, well, we’re going to get you some resources. So we work our way up and work our way up. So by the end of the weekend, this cabinet tree is all about figuring out your vision, seeking out your why, and then building a road map in order to get you there. So when we leave that retreat, you’ve got a blueprint, you’ve got a road map, literally, that you can just follow. Now, it’s just all just checking, checking it off as you go along. Now you know exactly how to get there. It’s believable. It’s realistic. It’s not just some I want an island. And you have no idea how much an island costs. You know exactly how much this cost, how you’re going to get there. Now you get to work, and that’s what I’m here for. I mean, I’m there to help you get there. Like you’re going to have some questions. How do I do the strategy? Go take a course. You know what I mean? If you need more help, I can guide you along. But I’m going to basically just hold your hand along this road map to get you to that perfect life as quickly as possible. That’s why we do a cabin retreat, and then we do six months of mentorship. After that, I’m not going to lock people in the 12 months, six months. And if the value is there, if you got everything that you know, if the value is there and you got everything you needed from the retreat and the mentorship is working, then we can continue on. But I want to make it affordable as well. I mean, that’s the last thing. Sorry I’m rambling on, but you know, I don’t like the big $15,000 course. I remember I remember when people when I was starting out, you know, that was like, why would I pay $15,000? When do I want to make it affordable as well? I want it to be reliable and small.

Erwin Szeto [01:01:31] That’s the path to making lots of money.

Wayne Hillier [01:01:35] It’s not, I tell you, going to that retreat, when you see that light switch go on in other people’s eyes, you know what I mean? Where they that moment where they had that breakthrough moment like, holy shit, it’s not really that hard. It’s achievable, that belief, you know what I mean? That belief that it can happen. It’s so cool to watch. And then instantly you just see the paper fill up. They just start filling up their notebooks and everything, you know what I mean? All this, if that works, then all of these things, right, and they just start it really starts to become it starts to happen in their mind. And they figured out a plan. It’s so cool to watch.

Erwin Szeto [01:02:09] I’m guessing you’re screening Who’s allowed into the cabin?

Wayne Hillier [01:02:12] Yeah, it turned a lot of people away. We laughed. We just finished the last one in November. The next one’s in February. I can’t remember the date. I thought my head.

Erwin Szeto [01:02:23] Was allowed in my cabin. I’m guessing is falling is when’s the next one and who’s allowed in which have.

Wayne Hillier [01:02:26] And it’s gonna be late February. I can’t remember the exact date but I’ll give you that information. I’ll give you the website.

Erwin Szeto [01:02:31] You spots.

Wayne Hillier [01:02:32] Yeah. No spots for it advertised yet. That’s okay. COVID covid’s messing things up. Right. I’m sorry. Yeah. So what? We just built ours.

Erwin Szeto [01:02:42] Criteria, vaccinated the. Doctor.

Wayne Hillier [01:02:46] We just finished the last one in November, and. And I was sitting around the table and we were just having just like, just this awesome, amazing, like, meaningful conversation. As a man, I am so glad that all you guys showed up because, like, it’s funny, like, one, one negative person in the room could totally ruin our retreat in the end. One person in at the end of their end of the table saying, yeah, but what if can totally ruin the moment. So yeah, I am very selective. I want to find people who want to learn, who really want the best for their life. And normally I can tell I’m a pretty good judge of character. I can I can tell the talkers from the walkers and I turn to a lot of people away. But, you know, the retreat in the mentorship is just for people who are actually going to do it. And like I said, I’m a pretty good judge of character.

Erwin Szeto [01:03:32] I always want to ask, who is this for? Is it not for complainers? No complaint is allowed.

Wayne Hillier [01:03:39] Okay. It’s as simple as that. I don’t even think I need to go any further than that.

Erwin Szeto [01:03:44] I know negative people.

Wayne Hillier [01:03:47] It’s you know, life is full of decisions, man. It’s it really comes down and it’s full of decisions. You make good ones; you make bad ones. Like if you make good decisions, you’ll have a good life and you make a decision, you stick with it. Of course, you don’t just make a decision and then not do it. But yeah, some people make bad decisions and some people like to blame other people for it. But I mean, ultimately, it’s at the end of the day, it’s your decisions that that. That determine your life. And it’s not anyone else’s fault. It’s not the government’s not corvids, not everything else. I’m having a terrific year. You’re having a terrific year. I’m sorry for the people that are not having a terrific year. You know, if they’re terrific year because of, you know, maybe health and other things in their job and everything else, but you are fully capable of building something for yourself. You’re not reliant on your employer, you’re not reliant on the government. There are more opportunities now than there have ever been in the history of humans. So you can’t complain because there are opportunities. You can make better decisions. And I’m sorry for people that are suffering, but that’s my belief. I believe that you can make the best out of your life. I just ripped off pretty much the oh my whole content for my weekend. I mean, of course, there’s a lot more inspirational quotes and stuff like that and me and everything else. I’m there. But I just told you exactly how to do it. Like, go and really listen to the last 15 minutes. It’ll change your fucking life. I swore a lot. You can bleep me out. I apologize. I get that.

Erwin Szeto [01:05:11] You know what the rule is on that? These podcasts are so unfiltered. Like, it’s not like YouTube.

Wayne Hillier [01:05:16] Yeah. Good call.

Erwin Szeto [01:05:20] Where can folks find out more about you? More about your retreat?

Wayne Hillier [01:05:24] The Internet?

Erwin Szeto [01:05:25] Oh, really? Not messenger pigeon.

Erwin Szeto [01:05:29] Is there a. Website for this internet?

Wayne Hillier [01:05:34] Obviously, it’s like my investments. Business, Prairie Home Investments. You can find that on Facebook and Instagram. Prairie Home Investment. Yeah, but, you know, just look me up personally. My name is Wayne Hillier, as indicated. And yeah, Instagram, Facebook, to be honest, I should be I should be more active on the other platforms. But obviously the podcast as well, the real estate investor, dad, some great educational content there. Erwin was a guest last year.

Erwin Szeto [01:06:03] Earlier like I told you.

Wayne Hillier [01:06:05] Skegg Yeah, it’s and I will get more episodes out. I, I apologize to everyone listening this and asking.

Erwin Szeto [01:06:17] I think when we’re done recording, I’ll share with you my podcast producer.

Wayne Hillier [01:06:21] That would be amazing. Thank you.

Erwin Szeto [01:06:23] Wayne. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for being so open and sharing. Congrats on success.

Wayne Hillier [01:06:28] Dude. It’s been my dream for the last seven years. Of course I’ll do it. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It’s. It’s been a lot of fun. Awesome.

Erwin Szeto [01:06:45] Before you go, if you’re interested in learning more about an alternative means of cash flowing by, hundreds of other real estate investors have already. And sign up for my newsletter and you’ll learn of the next free demonstration webinar I’ll be delivering on the subject of stock hacking. It’s a much improved demonstration over the one that I gave to my cousin Chubby at Thanksgiving dinner in 2019. He now averages 1% cash flow per week, and he’s a musician by trade. As the real estate investor myself, I got into real estate for the cash flow, but with the rising costs to operate a rental business, it’s just not the same as it was 5 to 10 years ago when I started. Never forget that cash flow reduces your risk. The more you have, the more limbs you can absorb. And if you have none or limited cash flow, you’re going to be paying out of your pocket like I did on a recent basement flood at my rental in St Catherine’s, Ontario. If you’re interested in learning more for free from my newsletter at WDW DOT Truth About Real Estate Investing Dossier, enter your name and email address on the right side will include in the newsletter when we announce our next Free Stock Hacker demonstration. Find out for yourself with so many real estate investors are doing to diversify and increase our cash flow. And if you can’t tell, I love teaching and sharing the stuff.