Table of Contents - Inflation, Buying Assets, The Last Dance and more with Tom Karadza
George El Masri [00:00:00] Hello, hello and welcome to the show, I interviewed the man, Tom Karadza. Tom is the co-founder of Rockstar Real Estate. Him and his brother started the brokerage a few years ago, over 10 years ago now, and actually worked with them in the past. So Tom's a cool guy. He's he's like a cool dad that still likes to drink and party and stuff. We don't really talk about that too much. But I just remember from working with him and we covered a lot of stuff. We covered we covered inflation. We talked about the importance of owning assets and where like things that he did in the past that were really good for him today for his net worth and for his his situation. So lots of good stuff in there. We also covered little things like the last dance documentary and the impact of Michael Jordan. His thinking, we talked about his podcast. So I hope you guys will enjoy. I think there's tons of cool stuff in there. And I wanted to invite you to go to www.youtube.com Forward Slash report. There's tons of free stuff in there. You can look at your guide to real estate investing that will help you identify what path you should be on today, what which path in terms of real estate investing, there is a whole bunch of other stuff that you can download for free. So check it out. Enjoy the episode. See you soon. Welcome to the War podcast, where the goal is to motivate, inspire and share success principles. I'm here with Tom Corazza and I to be here. I'm happy to be here, Thomas Love and I don't know how to properly pronounce your last name.
Tom Karadza [00:01:31] Yeah, I'm surprised you have my first name down like that.
George El Masri [00:01:34] I remember you'd say in front of the crowd when you have your your life, your terms of yeah yeah yeah yeah.
Tom Karadza [00:01:40] Our last name is weird. It's Karadza. Most say it sounds Japanese. It sounds a little crazy. I know.
George El Masri [00:01:47] Cool. So for those that don't know which I'd be surprised if you haven't heard of Tom but he. So he's the founder or the co-founder of Rockstar Real Estate with his brother Nick. He entered the software industry in nineteen ninety eight, part of the sales team. And pretty much after hitting his life for a while, he decided to plunge into running his own business. And that's where Rockstar came from. And I'm sure Tom is going to talk about that a little bit. But Rockstar has become an investor focused brokerage to a certain degree, although I know you guys don't like to really see yourselves as realtors or whatnot, and they help a lot of investors. I worked with Rockstar for two years and things things are awesome here. You guys run things very differently from for most people. From most places. So, Tom, thank you for joining. And I wanted to the way I start off is by asking you about your childhood. So I want to know a little bit about where you grew up and certain things you remember from your childhood. Let's do
Tom Karadza [00:02:38] it. Yeah. So just generally answer that right now. Yeah. First thing, I grew up a born in Toronto, just off Western Road in Toronto, Die Hard Leafs fan and now a diehard Raptors fan as well. But Leafs, you know, I try to explain this to my son because my son likes the Raptors a little bit more than the Leafs I feel. And I'm like when I was young, there was no Raptors, there was no TFC. So the Leafs have a special place in my heart still waiting for that championship. But anyway, born in Toronto, moved in junior kindergarten to Mississauga. And that's where Nick and I both grew up. I'm five years older than my brother who co-founded Rockstar Real Estate, grew up in Mississauga, went to the best high school in all of Mississauga, Phillip Pocho Secondary School. It wasn't on Tompkins Road in Mississauga. It was in the Tobaco because we had outgrown the location. They bused us over to a tobaco, but loved growing up in Mississauga and yeah, went to University. U of T was supposed to go into engineering. When I discovered that for engineering you had to go downtown Toronto. I then switched to what was called Arundell College, I think it's called UTM now and went to university there, graduated with a psychology and a sociology degree. And then I went into software sales. So I don't know, go figure. And then eventually into real estate. Yeah, but that's a little bit. Is that is that enough?
George El Masri [00:03:56] Yeah, that's perfect. Which part of Mississauga.
Tom Karadza [00:03:58] So Dixy and Burnam thought, oh
George El Masri [00:04:00] that's so weird because I grew up there too. I grew up, it was on River Spring River Sprey Cresson. I forget the exact address but it was a big green apartment building.
Tom Karadza [00:04:10] So on where where if I'm at Dixy in Bournemouth or where. S on Dixy.
George El Masri [00:04:14] Yeah I think it was just south. I believe it was just south of Burnam.
Tom Karadza [00:04:17] Yeah. Got it. Cool.
George El Masri [00:04:18] Yeah. Holy smokes. Yeah. So and I also went to UTM. You did it. Yeah I did. Did you go to Philip. No, I went to a French school. Oh got it.
Tom Karadza [00:04:25] Oh my gosh. You can speak French. Yeah. You didn't know that. No, I don't think
George El Masri [00:04:28] I'd do that. Yeah. Yeah. So I worked with you guys for two years. I don't know, with the only time we actually sat down, had a conversation was when I did your podcast because you're always so busy. I that's not I'm not taking a shot at you. I'm just saying I know you've got a lot going on.
Tom Karadza [00:04:40] No, that's fair. I mean, yeah, I think Nick and I are probably both guilty of and this is something it's been through my whole childhood. And I know if I got it from my parents is that when we decide there is work that we feel we need to do, we just put our heads down and keep doing it to the detriment of social relationships with people around us for. They sure like it if there's one quality trait that I sometimes laugh about myself where I'm really lacking, it's the ability to spend time with other people in a social environment. I just, for whatever reason, don't do it. I hardly do it anymore with my own friends. I have a small group of friends that I hang out with and that's it. It's really weird, George. Well, I totally wasn't picking on you. No, no, that's normal. That's normal behavior.
George El Masri [00:05:22] Have you done any of those personality tests to kind of see what you like in terms of the social aspect?
Tom Karadza [00:05:27] Yeah, and it's weird because on the disk profile, I'm like super high def and then I'm also super high for interpersonal. I'm really low S.A.C. compliance paperwork. Yeah. Kind of stuff. Yeah. But so I have interpersonal skills, but I guess my dad is so high that once I decide I want to do something, I just focus on it and I ignore everything else. Cool. I'm not, I'm not saying it's a good way to be.
George El Masri [00:05:51] Yeah. But it's the way I am. Yeah. Well no obviously you just have to just do what you're you're naturally inclined to do and then just be good at that. So what I want to discuss with you, because I kind of want to break it down into three sections as we talked about. I want to talk about the start of rock star and maybe just a quick explanation of what rock star is, even though I kind of talked about it. But you can say it in your own words.
Tom Karadza [00:06:14] So I went after university. I was working at Oracle and then NetSuite with the commissions I was making from software sales. I started buying rental properties with my brother and I remember being stuck in traffic on Highway four or three, bumper to bumper traffic, so much traffic every day that I remember looking. I can remember this vividly now looking to my right and seeing the eye, recognizing the guy in the car next to me who was also stuck in traffic because I had seen him like three or four days, like in a row. I even recognize the coffee cup that he was holding in his hand. And I remember thinking I'd already won rental properties and back then they were cash flowing. You can still make them cash flow back then with the prices, they were cash flowing like crazy. And I remember thinking, why is the highway going to Hamilton completely empty? All the money is that way because that's where we happen to own some rental properties. And I'm stuck in this bumper to bumper traffic going to my corporate job this way. I don't like if there's any wrong place to be. It's got to be here. I should be doing what everyone else is not doing. Right, like I why am I doing what everyone else is doing? And I just started freaking myself out to the point that I ultimately quit my job. And Nick and I both got our real estate licenses to basically bypass realtors, even though you and I are both a realtor to basically bypass realtors. But I couldn't find people like you, George. Like I couldn't find people who were, I thought, caring and thoughtful and really wanted to have my back. We found the realtors who were just out to sell us a property and be gone. And I didn't I actually didn't even really know there was like investor realtors out there. I genuinely didn't. And so we got our licenses so that we could get access to the board information ourselves. And when I was fed up in the corporate world, I told Nick, I said, look, I never expected this, but why don't we use our real estate licenses? Because he got his as well to start our own business. We'll help investors. I go, where are the Canadians that are helping investors? And I assume that we were all out there, but because the social media hadn't really taken off, this is like twenty six. Twenty seven you couldn't find we couldn't find each other easily. There was forums online where people were like chatting online, but there wasn't social media. So you didn't know who was doing what as easily as you do today. I know that sounds crazy, but it was true. So we thought we're going to start a brokerage that can help Canadians buy real estate investments and we'll stand by their side. Like if there's a problem with the toilets or if there is a flood in the basement or a problem with the tenants they call us, we might not be the ones fixing the toilet, even though both Nick and I have ripped out toilets and fixed toilet. But we'll help them out and we'll have their back, will analyze properties together and will be those people. And that's how Rock Star was formed. It was just myself and Nick. And then we were out of another brokerage. We were actually out of the original Keller Williams brokerage in Oakville. Yeah. And then that one went away. And when it went, it didn't succeed that particular one. We thought, why are we going to put our license with a brokerage that maybe isn't going to be around? Let's not have that risk in our lives. We want to live life on our terms. Let's start our brokerage ourselves. And that's when we went and founded Rockstar Real Estate and we started this membership called The Rock Star in our Circle, which is a big group of investors who all work together. And we have educational classes and we have newsletters and monthly audios for our investors and we lead with education and rock star is this weird brokerage where it's like a bit of an education component to it. But then we're on the streets actually doing what we're we're talking about. So that's that's the quick story.
George El Masri [00:09:42] Yeah, it's really cool because not like you have a lot of guys here and women too, that work with a lot of investors like they do big, big volume. And you have different people that focus on different things, like Ruben does the high end Mississauga Road type of stuff. And then you have like Erwan. Just I don't know what works on all sorts of different stuff, kind of running his own little sister within rock star. So what is it that you guys are aiming to do? What's what's a rock star's mission?
Tom Karadza [00:10:11] So the first mission for people we work with is to help them live life on their terms. We believe we should all be able to live life on the terms that we see fit for ourselves. And personally, I feel the way the economic system is structured in Canada. Although Canada is my favorite country in the world and I believe your parents came here and my parents came here, I'm assuming your parents were not born here, right? Yeah. And my parents were not born here. They came because
George El Masri [00:10:35] of the way I looked.
Tom Karadza [00:10:36] No, not at all. I just assume I just assume when I meet people whose parents are born in Kenya, I'm like, well, that's like, yeah, that's that's that's weird. But but actually, now that I'm saying that I'm one of the little kids that I'm born here, but I'm one of the parents that are born in Kenya. But your parents came here and my parents came here because Canada had something to offer them. And I believe this is the best country, the education system that we have, the social services that we have, the health care system that we have. So I'm very proud to be a Canadian, to be born here. But I believe the economic structure in the Western world is set up to falsely help asset owners and savers fall behind. And I feel honest. I just feel disgusted that that is not explained in schools. And you're left to understand that yourself or learn about that yourself. And so many people never learn that they need to own assets in this economic structure to get ahead, that we want it to be a brokerage that helped explain that to people. And we aren't even number one fans of real estate. We just believe real estate is one of the asset classes that, when used properly, can help you get ahead financially, as I know you know, and that can help you live life on your terms. Right. So anyway, I'm probably off what you wanted me to answer, but I just believe there's some economic injustices in the way the system is set up, and I really believe that we should be. People who save money should be the ones who get ahead and we don't live in a world like that, so our mission is to help people buy assets so that they can get ahead, because it's one of the few ways that you really will be able to help yourself.
George El Masri [00:12:20] Yeah, I just remember, ever since I was young, the thought of saving money for retirement, like saving a million dollars or whatever it was I thought would just depress me even as a child. I just think I can't imagine working my whole life to save a million dollars and then have to be very careful about what I spend when I'm older to make sure. Yeah, that's
Tom Karadza [00:12:41] horrible. I thought the same way as you.
George El Masri [00:12:42] Yeah. Yeah. Why do you think just since you mentioned it, why do you think the system is built that way, that we're not taught about money and about assets and about how to build wealth. We're taught about saving for retirement.
Tom Karadza [00:12:55] Yeah, well, yeah. That's such a great question. So there's a few components to it. The first thing is the education system has no incentives to teach us that. So there's nobody in the education system who is getting a bonus or a commission to help children understand the financial system. So the education system just does what it wants. If we took a few people high in the education system and said, we are going to pay you a big fat bonus for children when they come to school, if they take a financial literacy test and they do really well on it, you're going to get a bonus. You better believe there's going to be changes in the education system, but we don't put that incentive into the education system. So changes happen are just that the free will of whoever is going to decide something should change. And it's not really some of the changes that I believe should happen. The second thing is that we're taught to save because our parents went through an era. What country did your parents grew up in? Lebanon, Lebanon or Lebanon? Right now, I'm assuming you know what's happening in Lebanon. Central Bank being my mom.
George El Masri [00:13:53] My mom is in Lebanon, right? She's in Lebanon. Yeah. She went to visit her dad right before right before the explosion happened.
Tom Karadza [00:14:00] Oh, my gosh. And even before the explosion happened, which is almost like the icing on the cake in the worst way possible. The currency issues that's going on in Lebanon, inflation, hyperinflation, when when a society needs to go from living in Lebanon, it's had a lot of issues. Lebanon, I always think Croatia is like has had the craziest history because it's always being overtaken by different different empires and stuff. And then I think of Lebanon. I'm like, holy smokes. If there's one country that's had a rough go at, it might be. But it's everyone from Lebanon, Lebanese or Palestinian like is it Palestinian
George El Masri [00:14:34] father was Palestinian, actually. So, yeah, he came to Kenya. My dad was born in Syria and Lebanon. My dad was born in Lebanon. So, yeah, there are a lot of Syrians. A lot of Palestinians.
Tom Karadza [00:14:48] Yeah. OK, so yeah, that's to me. You know, you have some context when you talk about hyperinflation and that kind of stuff. But our parents, I feel when they grew up, I don't know the interest rates in Lebanon, but the history would probably say that they understand money better than North Americans. But when my when my parents were getting their first house here in Canada in the nineteen eighties, interest rates went up to 16 percent, made a mortgage of 16 percent. So when they when they had children getting older, they taught them to pay off debt because they grew up in an era of high interest rates. Right. So you had the school system that didn't teach anything. Then you had a generation of parents who were faced with high interest rates who then taught their kids never get debt because of these high interest rates. They didn't know interest rates were going to go down to the zero and inflate asset prices and teaching us that would not help us get ahead. Right. But the intent was pure, but the timing was wrong. So there is that. And then the third thing is we have an economic system where central banks control the money system and banks can print print money at the government, can print money at will. So it decreases the value of your savings and my savings. And when when governments have no incentive to keep the money at a desired level and they keep printing more and more money, it just naturally robs savers and robs you of your time. It robs me of my time through a monetary theft, and because of that, savings has no value and you have to buy properties.
George El Masri [00:16:19] Because if I don't say that, why do you say that is printing money impacts your savings. In what way?
Tom Karadza [00:16:25] OK, if my father worked really hard in construction, let's say he was able to save up ten thousand dollars in the nineteen eighties when he was working construction. So he got up at like 5:00 a.m. He did drywall all through the winter. No heating, you know, like a pretty tough construction job. And let's say it took him an extra two years of of time through his regular work to save up ten thousand dollars, saved up ten thousand dollars. But that took him over two years to pay the mortgage on his house, pay food for the family, pay bills. But on the side, he was able to save up ten thousand dollars. So it took him two years to fully accomplish that. Well, that ten thousand dollars in the nineteen eighties. If you could buy a house in the early 1980s for like one hundred twenty grand, that's ten thousand. Has a lot of value, let's say he kept that ten thousand dollars, which is a representation of his time in the labor force in the market, and he gave it to his grandchildren, my children today. Well, that ten thousand dollars when a house now that was like one hundred and ten thousand in Mississauga is now one point five million. Yeah. That ten thousand dollars has lost a ton of value. Now what is the system done? The system has robbed my father of his time because the money is to me just a store of value, a future of future time. Like I'm storing my time now to spend it in the future. But when when the value is decreased over time to me, you're robbing me and I feel like it's worse. I remember my father getting up early and you're robbing my father. And what it's teaching society is that you have to invest the money, otherwise you're going to fall behind. Right. But why is that the case? Why can't we see? Why can't we have savings that go up in value? Because then if George works really hard and saves his money, he should be rewarded. Penalized. Yeah. And then it wouldn't be such a daunting effort when you said a few minutes ago that it was like, oh, my gosh, saving a million dollars. But it shouldn't be that way. I strongly believe it shouldn't be that way. And it's why I'm a big believer in gold and it's why I'm a big believer right now in something like Bitcoin that's hard money and properties. So these are things that I just it makes sense to me. So I don't know if I made it too complicated or.
George El Masri [00:18:30] No, I understand what you're saying. You're talking about inflation and how that impacts savers, because the I've heard you speak on other things many times, but you talk about how the rate of inflation surpasses pretty much like the amount that you're able to save or the interest that you're receiving on your savings. So your dollar value is decreasing over time because of inflation? Totally. Yeah, sure. That's the definition.
Tom Karadza [00:18:55] You summarize that. You summarize it very beautifully. You should be answering these questions. But yeah, that's the whole point. And I, I just strongly don't believe in that type of system. I don't believe that we should be forced into risky analysis of assets and and you and I shouldn't be armchair economists. George should be I believe George should just be able to do his work, provide value to the marketplace, earn money and save his money in the savings. Shouldn't go down in value. If I was sitting across from the Bank of Canada, Governor, in this country right now, what would their answer be to me that inflation offered us? Like, why is it that it's so widely accepted? Like, why is it that prices have to always go up? Why can't the value of my dollar go up?
George El Masri [00:19:39] Are you saying that inflation is a direct correlation of the amount of money that's printed? It is correct. So what I'm saying, if they print more money, then that leads to a higher rate of inflation.
Tom Karadza [00:19:49] Typically, there's there's no economist. We'll talk about the velocity of money if they print more money and nobody spends it. If we all sit on our hands and don't spend the more money, you're not going to get the inflation. So there's a couple of components to it. But basically, yes, right. And I don't understand the importance of inflation in an economy. And any time I ask an economists of any sort that believes in it, I don't understand their answers. It's always too complicated. Right. Maybe I'm a simple person. Save money should go up in value.
George El Masri [00:20:17] It's so funny. That's such a basic concept to. And I'm an economics major. Oh, yeah, I know that. Yeah. So I don't remember anything that I learned at all. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I remember on this topic is that money supply is controlled by bonds. Like if they want more money than they they sell bonds. You bonds. Yeah. Yeah. And if they want to reduce the money supply then they purchase the bonds. Exactly. Whatever. Yeah. So that's all I remember my four years of economics
Tom Karadza [00:20:45] and that's an accurate representation of what's going on. My question to any professor would be why does it have to be that way. Like why can't the government, if they're going to spend more money, just save the money that they need? Yeah. Why do they have to go get more debt and cause inflation?
George El Masri [00:21:00] Yeah, I understand what you're saying for me. My perspective and you might not agree with me, but I almost feel like the people that are taking chances and taking risks and taking action should be rewarded. And yeah. And that's just
Tom Karadza [00:21:12] but in this system, I can agree with that for sure. I'm just challenging the system. But you're right in this system, I think if you are taking the risk, you should be
George El Masri [00:21:19] well, in a perfect world, if everyone could just be wealthy and work and have money for retirement, all that, that would be great. It would be great. I don't know if there is any place like that on Earth.
Tom Karadza [00:21:29] I don't know none that I know of, but I think it's possible we have to check something. Yeah, but we'll move on.
George El Masri [00:21:33] Yeah. OK, so I want to talk to you about the current market because obviously covid impacted things back in March and April and whatnot. And I know you talked to your guys or guys and girls all the time about what they're seeing in the market now. What are your thoughts on what's happening? So it just kind of I don't know if you saw this, but they were reporting that prices from July twenty twenty compared to twenty nineteen, the average price increase by sixteen point nine percent
Tom Karadza [00:22:01] is crazy now. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So. There's so much happening, it's funny because when covid started, I guess we went from like fallowed being busy to almost zero in about seventy two hours, like it was like a three day window where it was like, everything's happening. Three days later it was crickets. Right. And I think it stayed that way for six weeks, maybe even two months. And then it was just game on. And I think what's happening is a lot of people there's a lot of factors at play here, but a lot of I think what is happening is that there are some people who don't want to be stuck in another shelter in place moment in the home that they have previously. So either they're living with other family members, they're living in maybe a condo, and they want something that's not a condo. And it's driving some changes in the real estate market. People who are maybe waiting to make a change are saying, holy smokes, if we get locked down again, I want to make a change. And we're hearing that. And I was just explain to you how somebody on our team was living in downtown Toronto and she's now moving to St. Catherine. She wants a family that's home and she's out there. So that's definitely happening. And all of that kind of pulled up demand. It's not even pent up demand. It's kind of like future demand that where people may have made these moves, but it's being pulled up to current day because instead of waiting a year or two to like, maybe I'll move out of the city or something, everyone's pulling up that decision. So you have a bit of pent up demand where the market was shut for there for a couple of months. And then you have a bit of pull forward demand. And it's and interest rates dropped a point and a half to make carrying costs a little easier. And it's all hitting at the same time and it's making the market go crazy.
George El Masri [00:23:43] So on top of that, there were also people back in March and April that wanted to move, but they were just afraid. And all of a sudden people are feeling more comfortable now. So you have those people in the market as well. So there's just from all angles, I have no idea what to expect.
Tom Karadza [00:23:58] And I think we're going to have to have some economic economic turbulence ahead. Like you can't go through what we've gone through and just provide government stimulus forever without kind of facing some reality. So at some point, I got to think some crops got to hit the fan somewhere. But with the amount of stimulus that's entered the market, no one's really no one's really been affected that I shouldn't say nobody. People have been affected. But there's been a lot of money that's been pushed far and we'll see what happens in the next 18 months.
George El Masri [00:24:25] So obviously, we haven't seen covid before. But if you've been in the market for a while, have you seen any trends like this in the past, anything that was similar to this at all?
Tom Karadza [00:24:34] Yeah, this most similar one that we saw was worse than this was nineteen ninety when the Bank of Canada raised interest rates three percent and they did that in one month. So can you imagine now like people freaked out about a quarter point or half point. Imagine raising interest rates three percent in a month. That's what they did in nineteen ninety and it collapsed the Toronto real estate market and it collapsed it for a long time. Yeah. So there was a deep recession there and it lasted years, like the property prices did not come back I want to say till nineteen ninety six. Don't hold me to that. But I believe it was a full six year cycle. So yeah I've seen worse than this for sure. But this is, this moment reminds me of that moment. I'm like where are we, are we in the eye of the storm right now. Like is there more turbulence ahead that just hasn't hit yet? And this is where for real estate investors, I think we all have to be really careful that if you need to lock in your interest rates so you can control your costs on your mortgage, you do it. You know, you can analyze your cash flow, make sure you have enough savings in the bank. You want to be a smart real estate investor when the where everybody in the world is confused about what's going to happen in the next 18 months, this is a time to prepare yourself.
George El Masri [00:25:43] Yeah, well, what's interesting, I recently got a mortgage with RBC. It's a variable mortgage. However, my monthly payments don't change. So even if the interest rate goes up or down, it's just going to impact the amortization of of the loan.
Tom Karadza [00:25:58] Some new products. I don't know your variable. It's a variable rate. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost like a commercial, like a flat mortgage. It's just going to stay flat. And then just internally, it's when did you have to accept a higher monthly payment out of the gates to get that mortgage? You probably did.
George El Masri [00:26:14] I don't think so. No, no. Whatever the current rate was, that was the monthly mortgage. And they said, that's it. It's not going to change.
Tom Karadza [00:26:21] So if rates go up and are just going to eat more of your payment into interest payments. Yeah, but you're you're not going to change. I don't know if
George El Masri [00:26:28] it's going to change that ratio or if it's just going to extend my organization from thirty years to whatever it is it's going to be. Yeah.
Tom Karadza [00:26:35] What an interesting product. Yeah.
George El Masri [00:26:36] I think that a lot of banks are doing that apparently. Really I haven't looked into it too much, but I believe that a lot of banks do it.
Tom Karadza [00:26:43] OK, Nick and I are just having we're buying some more property right now and I haven't got to that point yet. So now you've got me something to check up.
George El Masri [00:26:50] Thank you. Yeah, no worries. I was going to ask you because I never I don't remember ever hearing you say what kind of investment properties you go after. Are you a student rental investor? I know you must have some of those.
Tom Karadza [00:27:01] Yeah, I think it just changes, like when Nick and I started was anything we could qualify for. There wasn't like there wasn't like this grand plan, it was like, do you think we can get like that property looks good, do you think we can get it? And it started with student rentals. So we've been in the rental market for 20 years now. Yeah, just about 20 years. And then it turned into single family rentals and rent to own. We like that strategy and we like that strategy because we got some option fee up front. And then then in that time we were also flip mix, flipped. I flipped properties. So it's more just been where is the opportunity? Not necessarily, you know, a certain type. I have to say now that I'm forty seven and my financial situation is a little different, I have a little bit more access to some cash than I did when we started. Now I'm getting a little choosier now. It's like, OK, I don't think I'm going to get another student rental right now. Even there's nothing wrong with doing rentals. We just bought this commercial real estate. We're looking at some some other properties. I don't want to share where because the market's so competitive. I don't want to share where right now. We're looking at some other residential stuff right now. But I'm a little choosier now in the area because I'm starting to your portfolio. I can make some choices I could make before I can choose where I want to invest. I can pay the money to where if I want to centralize in Oakville, I can do it. Whereas in the past it was like, where's Hamilton again? Or There's good properties out there. Let's go. So yeah, there's been no grand strategy other than cash flow. Right. It make sure the property can pay for itself because of our lessons in nineteen ninety.
George El Masri [00:28:32] So two questions. The first one is, are you just still getting like normal residential mortgages or are you getting like blanket mortgages or something. I don't know, just
Tom Karadza [00:28:41] regular will we have commercial and residential and just regular commercial and residential, regular, regular commercial and regular residential mortgage. OK, no big blanket stuff. I've never seen anyone do that in any capacity. Really. Well, I know people talk about it and I think it sounds good, but whenever we've explored it, we've never seen it done really well. Yeah, doesn't mean you can't do it, but Alexander might come in and take a picture.
George El Masri [00:29:06] Oh OK. Sure, yeah. Don't worry.
Tom Karadza [00:29:07] I saw you, George. Yeah. Yeah. Who's this person. Yeah.
George El Masri [00:29:11] Yeah. OK, so you haven't had any issues with hitting your cap limits with the banks ordering
Tom Karadza [00:29:18] all sorts of. Hm. Oh yeah. No, no. Yeah. We've had all sorts of problems hitting all sorts of caps with the banks. We just go to other banks. So when you hit a wall where we've lost the most opportunity is we've accepted the limiting belief that when a bank tells, you know, that's definitive. Yeah. And we've now realized that when TD tells, you know, if you just walk across the street to RBC, maybe that same day, they're going to tell you. Yeah, right. I remember people saying no to us that you couldn't get a student rental financed at at Royal Bank. And then later that same month, someone's getting a student rental financed at Royal Bank. Yeah. And and so, you know, we hit the caps at all times. I remember also Royal Bank telling us and this is the World Bank's great. I'm not picking on them. But they told us that there was a cap of like six properties. It was five or six. Six can't by more than six, can't buy more than six time. Then our financial net worth changed a little bit. Yeah. And all of a sudden it was like, oh, you know what? After sending in your paperwork, you guys will we'll qualify you in a couple more property.
George El Masri [00:30:23] Really interesting, because I just had a conversation about that there. They were saying that that's when you're done. You when you have five with RBC, you're done.
Tom Karadza [00:30:32] Yeah. Is it five? OK, I've forgotten what the capital may be.
George El Masri [00:30:35] I think it's five maybe plus a cottage or something like whatever whatever it is,
Tom Karadza [00:30:38] you don't have the same thing. And for many years they didn't like us because they're like, sorry guys, sorry guys. And then it was about five years ago, we came back to them with some new financial documents and stuff. And we just kind of thought like we're going to get rejected again. And actually we'll do a couple more with you guys. We're like, oh, how interesting. And to be fair, we started using some corporations. So like our financial setup wasn't just personal anymore. We set up Korps. We had some money in Corp, some property in Korps. Yeah. So maybe that helped Royal Bank approve us. Got it. Using some different asset kind of structures. But it also taught me a big lesson that like it's interesting that when your financial situation changes, they change their answer to you. Right.
George El Masri [00:31:17] Well, I'm realizing that banks are pretty flexible, like they might have their structure in place. But you can work and it depends on who's representing you to like you. You have some people that they don't if they see that you don't meet the criteria that say they give up on you, but some people will actually dig deep and try to get get something.
Tom Karadza [00:31:34] And those bankers are worth their weight in gold. Yeah, and that's what we tell everybody. You know, I think both you and I know some good different good banking contacts and they're worth their weight in gold. Yeah. So, yeah. Anyone listening to this, like, if you're told no. In one place, just go across the street to another, just keep asking. Likely someone's going to tell you. Yeah. But hitting the caps. Yeah. That's a
George El Masri [00:31:52] constant. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Tom Karadza [00:31:54] Nick and I would buy properties firm with having no financing in place thinking that we could put like five percent down only to learn that we had to put. There was a point we had to put twenty five percent down. You know, everyone thinks twenty is like if you put twenty you're good. Yeah we thought we. Do five on one, they told us, no, we had to end up putting twenty five percent and we almost like
George El Masri [00:32:11] trying to tell you you had the you know, we
Tom Karadza [00:32:13] didn't have the means to go and collect money from family and friends to get it done. A disaster. But that's how you learn to write.
George El Masri [00:32:22] Yeah, that was the second part of my question. So if you if you were going to go back in time, I know you've been asked this before, but is there like a certain property type that's performed really well for you and that you would have focused more energy on buying more of.
Tom Karadza [00:32:36] OK, I think a couple of years ago I would have said all in on student rentals and I'm still a big believer in student rentals, just the cash flow beautifully. And even though, let's say, the Soviet era is our worst case scenario for student rentals, because there's a lot of talk of foreign students maybe not returning, I can tell you right now across all the universities that we keep tabs on the schools that we have in the student rentals, we own ourselves. Not an issue right now. Everything's fully rented out. In fact, all the students seem to not want to stay home with their parents and they want to go to school. Maybe if this continues for two years, maybe there will be a bit of a problem. But for us student rentals, students do not treat them poorly. That's the myth out there. If you treat students with respect, they treat you and your properties with respect. So no issues. They kashala really well. The downside in student rentals is less banks want to deal with them. So if you want to refinance and pull out equity, sometimes you have to go begging to like five or six banks to get approval. That's a bit of a negative. So that would be number one until a couple of years ago because if I knew duplexes and legal second suites were going to be like if I knew people were going to pay. For example, we have a rock star, inner circle member investor in Brantford. He has a side by side duplex. Each side is being rented out for over two thousand dollars a month. That's one single family structure that's collecting over four thousand dollars in rent. If I knew that that was going to take place in twenty twenty, I would tell I would just focus purely on single family homes and be converting those into duplexes like starting 10 years ago, 15, 20 years ago. Yeah, right. Because the income on that, your income doubled. We rented out single family homes in Brantford not too long ago for like eighteen hundred bucks to the same house. Now set up as a duplex is getting over four thousand. Right. Like it's incredible. So to me, that single family home that could be also converted to a duplex is such a sweet spot because you could rent it out as a single family home, you could rent it out as a duplex. If one if one unit is vacant, the other units earning you income at the banks love single family homes more than student rentals. To me, that's a real sweet spot. And I think that trend is going to continue as the GTA continues to have a housing shortfall. Even with our immigration falling right now, I think that's a short term blip like Canada, if anything I think is still going to be a destination for people from Lebanon, Croatia, my mom's Scottish from Scott. Like, I think it's still going to be a destination, so I'm not too concerned with that.
George El Masri [00:35:02] What is happening like from what you've read on immigration know, is it like completely shut down right now or.
Tom Karadza [00:35:09] No, it's not complete. Planes were landing with new immigrants into Canada right through covid. No one knows this except a friend of ours works up at the airport. I was like, hey, guys, there's like planes landing. These are immigrants still coming
George El Masri [00:35:18] into the I'm assuming a lot less than before,
Tom Karadza [00:35:20] a lot less. It looks like it's way less than half like we saw. Yeah, we lost way more this less than half the amount is coming in currently,
George El Masri [00:35:28] which is still pretty good. If you think if it's close to half, what was it?
Tom Karadza [00:35:32] I think it's at about forty percent in the GTA specifically. And I think, well that's still forty percent. I thought it was I thought it was going to be zero. So and I think it's a bit of a blip like Canada is still extending offers out to new immigrants based on our point based immigration system. So I don't think this is going to continue. And from my understanding, in countries like Australia, for example, a new a fairly new member of our team is from Mumbai, India. Great guy. And he has those friends back home and he says he's telling us that some of his friends who went to school in Australia are saying that and I don't know this for fact. So anyone listening to this, please fact check this for yourself, is changing some of the laws that it's a little harder for students to get citizenship and status in Australia after school. So we're going back to his friends is come to Canada, right. And Canada is Canada. Just change some of its immigration laws for visitors who people who are here as visitors, if they are skilled in Canada, can get a job offer. You no longer have to leave the country when your visitor status is up. You can stay while you're working on getting proper work status here. That's new. That just came out in August. Twenty twenty. So Canada is very aggressive on new immigration. So when I hear things like that, that it's still a destination for students, you know, and I hear things that Canada is making changes around, I think this immigration thing, Canada is going to be more of a destination going forward to me, not less with our school system and more importantly, with our health care system. Right.
George El Masri [00:36:59] That's a good point.
Tom Karadza [00:37:00] I think I think we're in a sweet spot here. I mean, we you and I live. So maybe I'm biased, but I don't know, I think we're we're in a weird, weirdly unique gray area.
George El Masri [00:37:12] Yeah, I agree. I was thinking about this the other day. Would I can I see myself living in the States somewhere like San Diego or. It's not like some of the places I've been to. And although they're really nice spots, I just can't see myself being there. I just think that Canada is home like me too.
Tom Karadza [00:37:29] And yeah, I'm the same. And but when I was younger and I'm I'm much older than you, but when I was younger, I remember thinking, wow, I'll be so cool to live in America, in the US, like San Diego, specifically where you California. And now with everything going on in the world, America and otherwise like men can such a sweet spot, we have a little bit of everything we could use more sunshine. Yeah, that's it. That's it. But no, I'm very grateful. Yeah. And yeah, I also think Canada, just because we're so built on immigration that it just naturally breeds a certain respect for different ethnic. I'm not saying we're perfect in this country by any means, but it naturally breeds a certain respect for people of different cultures. It's almost like bred into the system here because. Immigration is such a huge component of this population, but, yeah, and I like it, I love it.
George El Masri [00:38:22] Yeah, and it's cool because you don't really have anyone picking on a certain ethnicity because there's just people from all over. So it just doesn't happen really that much.
Tom Karadza [00:38:33] And then how look at, look at look at me. I'm born in Canada. My father is a refugee who escaped Yugoslavia who would go into jail and risked getting shot climbing over mountains into Austria to escape that country. Yeah, he was a refugee, declared refugee status. They stuck them on a boat off through Germany onto the coast of Germany, and then they shipped them to Canada because they wouldn't keep them there. Yeah, right. And I think it was the church that paid his boat ticket to come to get. My mom didn't have a really great upbringing. Scotland, very poor family. And they wanted a better life. And they she was able to take a plane, but they came over here and like, this is like Canada gave I wouldn't exist if it wasn't for this country like they met in Toronto. I literally would not exist if it wasn't for this country. Yeah.
George El Masri [00:39:18] So I crazy. These are two people with completely different stories
Tom Karadza [00:39:22] and only because the attractiveness of Canada. Yeah. That that Nick and I are even here, like the chances of of me even being alive are so remote. So the fact that I get to sit here across from you and your parents being from somewhere else and a rock star where we're trying to help other people, I feel very lucky and very fortunate every day. Yeah, for sure. Well, even if I don't sit down and socially hang over, I feel very grateful that I, you know, but I'm being sincere here. I feel very grateful that there's someone like you on the streets. And I know you're such a good guy helping people, your clients doing the right thing by them that you're out there. I think that's what makes this country great. And I like knowing knowing that people like you out there.
George El Masri [00:40:00] Yeah, well, thanks. I appreciate that. We don't have a lot of time left. I want to touch on your podcast. So I just out of curiosity, what has the podcast led to for you? Because it's relatively new. I think it's a year older. So so how how is that a new medium? It's still kind of the same concepts. You're you're using the podcast as a way to to share a message. What are your thoughts on on what it's led to for you guys?
Tom Karadza [00:40:26] You mean from like a business point of view? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think when someone gets to listen to. So for example, on your podcast, if somebody gets to listen to you, George, here for an hour, it's just such a naturally easy way to build trust in people. Right. And sales comes down to trust. It doesn't matter what you're buying or who's buying it from you. They're buying you the individual. And if they trust you, it makes the sale a lot better and easier for both parties. And I think the long format of a podcast allows people to build trust much easier. You know, instead of putting like a marketing mess, like it's not like George, I do free home evaluations on some bench somewhere down the street. They get to hear you asking questions, you your thoughts on guess your thought. They're going to naturally build a certain level of trust with you. And so, you know, I like this guy going to do business with him. So the podcast is really opened up from a sales point of view, the ability to reach more people in a better format where we can all exchange our thinking and build relief, even though it's kind of like talking into a black hole. When you do a podcast, there's other people listening out there and trust is being built through this. And I it's it's it's one of the best platforms around. I really I really do believe podcasts. I love getting to listen to people in a long format environment because, you know, you really get to the bottom of who they are. You listen to them long enough, you know, their quirks. So it's good. So from a business point of view, probably the best way to build trust.
George El Masri [00:41:56] So is this something you feel like you should have done earlier?
Tom Karadza [00:41:59] Oh, yeah, no. We knew for two years before we did it, we knew we should be doing it. Yeah. So we've seen enough from a business point of view. We've seen enough media come into play. So when we started paper click advertising wasn't even Google AdWords and we were buying, we were buying like real estate investment Canada like for I think two sets. It was basically like free. And we're like, why? Why is no one else? And so when any new media comes into into into the world, if you can jump on that new media quickly, you tend to get first mover advantage. Right. So we then saw Facebook come out and we saw everybody was on the early ads were really cheap on there. You could build a following really easily. Instagram, same thing, Twitter, same thing. So when podcasting came out, we knew it was something to jump on, but we were so busy with some other stuff. Yeah, we delayed like two years, but the whole time we knew we would do it. And looking back, yeah, we should have done it sooner, but I don't really have regrets about it. But we should have started sooner for sure.
George El Masri [00:42:54] Was there anything that you committed to like, let's say Facebook advertising or something similar to that that didn't pan out for you guys?
Tom Karadza [00:43:02] Yeah, no. You know what it was? We were we're listen, we're so old. We were doing newspaper ads and we figured out the Fridays were the best day for local newspaper ads because all the coupons went out on Fridays and it seemed like that paper was read the most. I guess people want their coupons like all the. For different stores and so many Fridays on Monday, you had to commit to the Friday paper and we would be checking the weather forecast because it rained on Friday, the delivery boys, because we're doing community newspapers, they would not. We were convinced they weren't delivering because we were measuring our ads on any rainy days. We got no response. OK, so the biggest bombs were always rainy Fridays where we had spent sometimes for a little ad, like maybe for us maybe this doesn't sound like a lot of money for us. It was like the end of the world. Fifteen hundred bucks on an ad and it just got nothing. So newspaper ads on rainy days. Horrible. And then after that, when social media came up, we learned that if you build a following on, like Facebook organically, it might be great. But if Facebook changes its rules and that they don't share all of your posts to your whole audience because it's getting so crowded out there, you ultimately never want to be on a platform that's controlling you and put a lot of effort into it. So if I could share any advice with you or anyone else, you want to build your own email list and the reason you want to build your own email list at all costs is because you control those emails, even if somebody charges me to send the emails in the future. Right now, I can't just blast them out if I can build a relationship with people I own in that email address. And I own that relationship directly. There's no Facebook or Instagram or anything in between. So owning the relationship is ultimately the most important thing. Right. Which is why podcasts are great, too, because you're speaking directly to people. You're owning that relationship, right?
George El Masri [00:44:39] Exactly. And that email thing is awesome because I remember I took the class. I forget which one it was. It was the two day event,
Tom Karadza [00:44:45] our entrepreneurs summit maybe. Yeah.
George El Masri [00:44:47] And I think in Narey or maybe somewhere else. But you discussed like the structure of your email list and I've been implementing that and it's been awesome. Like people I've had way more interaction with people just by sharing a little bit about me rather than like, hey, the markets this or that, I find that people want to know. Yeah. So that's been really good. OK, so I want to move on to the next section, which is the random five. So I'm going to ask you five random questions and just let me know the first thing that comes to mind. So the first one is how useful would you be in a zombie apocalypse? What skills do you have that would help you and others survive?
Tom Karadza [00:45:23] Oh, man, I would be very useful. Now, I know this are naturopathic doctor. And if you know this, I just did my DNA test. He said my tolerance for pain is some of the highest he's ever seen our DNA. So zombies could really hack at me pretty good and I'm going to still fight. So in a zombie apocalypse, you want me on your side? OK, I'm there to the bitter end and I have no fear I'm going to face those guys down. So that must
George El Masri [00:45:45] be the Croatian and the
Tom Karadza [00:45:47] Croatian and the Scottish, I think, to combine. But yeah, no, I'm very useful in a zombie apocalypse.
George El Masri [00:45:51] So what's your earliest memory?
Tom Karadza [00:45:55] For some reason, my grandfather on my mother's side, my grandfather passed away when I was really young. He was sixty two heart attack. And for whatever reason, I was crawling on the floor in his house and he was crawling next to me like trying to make me laugh. And I somehow have this memory and I don't know my age at that time, but I feel like I was crawling. And because I never got to know him, because he passed away before, I would really be able to have discussions with him. I don't know. I can't remember the age, but it was shortly thereafter. Yeah. That's like my earliest memory of him on his all fours crawling next to me, like chasing me or something. Yeah.
George El Masri [00:46:35] And that's cool memory. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. Number three, where would your friends or family be most surprised to find you.
Tom Karadza [00:46:44] Most surprised to find I think they will be surprised to find me out at night after 10 p.m., I want to go to bed. I like going to sleep like I'm known for this out anywhere after 10 p.m., I want to be at home reading my books and falling asleep early.
George El Masri [00:47:03] That's so funny because you guys you do your Christmas parties like during the day. Yeah.
Tom Karadza [00:47:07] So what we do a Christmas party during the day because they got too out of control. And you know, some of the stories that I know. Yeah. And I love during the day parties because I get to be home by like if I get to be home at seven o'clock and we've already been out, had some drinks and some good food and somewhere I'm the happiest guy ever.
George El Masri [00:47:22] You guys are funny like you and Nick are so funny when it comes to partying like I know you just love to do it. So you're like a cool kind of older guy with a younger spirit. But yeah, when you were a kid, what movie did you watch over and over again?
Tom Karadza [00:47:40] You know what? This one is just etched in my mind, but I don't think I was quite a kid. But I just watched it so many times as Braveheart or Braveheart. I just loved that movie. I think it was on like on cable TV when they had movie weeks and they just replay a movie because, you know, you didn't have the Internet because
George El Masri [00:47:57] he was Scottish, right?
Tom Karadza [00:47:58] Yeah, yeah, yeah. And because he was Scottish and at the end he was screaming free and. Oh yeah, yeah. I watch that thing. I don't know how many times I haven't watched it in like ten years. I've got to go back to it. But I watched it. I don't know how many times I've watched that.
George El Masri [00:48:10] I watched it for the first time like two months ago. Is it cheesy now. It was pretty good. Is it pretty much. The freedom part's a little cheesy.
Tom Karadza [00:48:18] I remember being so I mean, I think I'm scared to watch it again because I'm like, if it's really cheesy. Yeah. I'm going to like, you know, in my mind that's like the best movie ever.
George El Masri [00:48:26] It wasn't like it was kind of bad for a kid to watch because he was so violent and just.
Tom Karadza [00:48:30] Yeah, but I mean, people's heads off. Yeah. But I think it was like late.
George El Masri [00:48:33] Yeah, fair enough. All right. And this is one that I always ask, what success principal do you live by.
Tom Karadza [00:48:39] Always do the right thing. I mean, always do the right thing. I try to teach my son this any time I've strayed from that principle. It's always led me to not sleeping well at night, feeling not good about myself and life in general. If I can always do the right thing in real estate by other people. In your relationship and my relationship together, I feel like I have like a lightness about me that, you know, it's a great way to live. And I find sometimes doing the right thing cost me money because sometimes I screw up. And to fix the problem, I have to take money out of my pocket that I did not want to spend or did not plan to spend. I have to spend it to fix the problem, but it's the right thing to do. Right. And we try to get everybody here at Rock Star understanding that that's our number one principle. We actually have three that I like to live by and we'd like to and still rocks Rocksmith, do the right thing, treat others as you would treat yourself and give 110 percent to everything you do. But do the right thing is everything. To me, that is what life is about. We all have a strong moral compass. Everybody knows what the right thing to do is. And I feel like I'm striving to get to like, perfect at that. But, you know, there's always going to be something that challenges you and you're like, damn, I didn't quite, you know, why did I answer George like that? That was not the right thing to do. But that's my goal.
George El Masri [00:49:58] Yeah, perfect. I know you have to go soon, but I had two more questions. Bonus question, and then you can end this. But the first bonus question, what would be your walk out song if you were a fighter
Tom Karadza [00:50:09] or lose yourself Eminem. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, lose
George El Masri [00:50:13] yourself. Didn't expect that at all. I know you guys like AC DC.
Tom Karadza [00:50:16] Yeah, yeah. Now lose yourself. There's that one line and lose yourself where it's you only get one shot. Yeah. And to me that's just summarizes life right now let's make the most of it.
George El Masri [00:50:26] I can only imagine where you were at in your life when that song.
Tom Karadza [00:50:28] Oh my God. I got to tell you a funny story. When I was in software sales at NetSuite and they were about to go public within about a year, every month was a really like a big, big deal, like closing the monthly closed to make sure we're closing in this business. And every minute of every month, I would come into the underground parking in this building. It was just off the floor, one by by by the airport here in Toronto. And I would be blasting yourself. And when you have an when it's in the underground garage, just echoes. Yeah. And the other sales managers have always just kind of like, look over at me. Who are you? What's wrong with you? Yeah, but anyway, sorry.
George El Masri [00:51:04] And the last thing because I want to get your opinion on this, but did you watch the last dance documentary. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Did you enjoy
Tom Karadza [00:51:10] it. Oh my gosh. When you see how competitive he was like how valuable did you hear when Tracy McGrady said, I wish I had watched that when I had entered the league. Yeah. And Tracy McGrady, even if you know the Raptors history, how he was on the run and when, you know, when Vince Carter left like I'm one of the Torontonians, I haven't forgiven Vince Carter. You know, everyone's clapping for him. Yeah. Yeah. I'm still like I'm still so bitter over that. Like, no, screw you. Yeah. As a person, I'm sure he's great and I would help him, you know, do the right thing. But as a as a player, I'm like, no, you left us but trust a. After watching on one of the interviews somewhere, he said something along the lines of that, if he had watched that sooner, he thinks it might have he might have been a better player than he was. And I thought, man, like the impact that documentary had. There are going to be some killer basketball players coming in the next generation because they're all going to watch that documentary. And when you see how competitive Jordan is and he doesn't care about social media, doesn't care about the accolades, he doesn't care about any celebrity, does whatever here just wants to win. How amazing was that? And to me, he was doing the right thing for him. He wasn't trying to to kind of appease anyone around him. He was just doing him. He was true to himself. Yeah. And I thought and so many people were like Rodman. Remember when Rodman was doing like the WWF? I think it's you know, but he was like doing something like right in the middle of the playoffs or something like, you know, he's yeah, that was phenomenal. I love
George El Masri [00:52:38] it. And I'm sure it was one of my favorite things to watch. It was
Tom Karadza [00:52:42] awesome. Every time, every day it was released because I was getting them on Netflix. I don't know how. Yeah, me too. I was I was watching them every morning. I like to read in the morning. Yeah, I know. I like I tell everyone do not watch videos in the morning. Yeah. It would come out before I would leave the house. I'm watching the whole house and it.
George El Masri [00:52:56] Yeah that's cool. OK, so to end things you want to tell people what services you offer and how they can reach out to you.
Tom Karadza [00:53:03] Yeah sure. I mean we have a bunch of stuff on Rock Star in our circle dotcom videos and reports and real estate stuff, free copies of our books. So if anyone wants any real estate information from us, they can go to Rockstar Inner Circle Dotcom.
George El Masri [00:53:18] That's the best way to reach out to you or follow you on Instagram, whatever. Yeah, and it's all linked from there. Yeah, all in one.
Tom Karadza [00:53:26] Perfect. George, really. This was really fun.
George El Masri [00:53:28] Fun. Yeah. Thanks. We'll do it again in the future. Appreciate it. Thanks once again for listening to another episode of the Well Off podcast. Just want to remind you that if you do appreciate the content, all I ask is that you comment. Maybe like it if you can, on the platform that you're listening to it on and finally share it with friends and family. I'd love to get the message out there and it would mean a lot if you can share it. And finally, I just wanted to offer you as a valued listener, a free copy to the roadmap to real estate investing, which is a document that I've put together which helps you identify what strategy would best suit your needs at this current time. You go over certain things that are included in this document step by step, and it'll hopefully provide you with some clarity. So have a look. You can go to w w w well off Dossie forward slash guide. Download your free copy.