Table of Contents - Off Market Deals with Millionaire Mom, Susan White Livermore
Dave Debeau [00:00:09] Everyone, this is Dave Debeau is another episode of the Property Prophets real estate podcast today, zooming in all the way from beautiful Barrie, Ontario, we have Susan White Livermore. Susan, how are you doing today?
Susan White Livermore [00:00:22] Excellent. Thank you for having me.
Dave Debeau [00:00:25] My pleasure. If you're not familiar with Susan. She's also known as the millionaire mom. She's done some pretty cool stuff with real estate investing. Her main focus, her main bread and butter is on doing the BR strategies for taking a single family home and adding more to it, increasing the value, increasing the cash flow, increasing the return on investment. And she's also become very, very good at finding off market deals, which is what I think we'll focus this conversation on. So, Susan, why don't you tell us just very, very briefly, first of all, why do you like the whole br strategy versus everything and anything else we could be doing in real estate? Because there's all sorts of options out there,
Susan White Livermore [00:01:10] probably for some for as much as they can do it really easily within Barrie, Ontario. And I like to keep my entire portfolio here. And it's the highest and best use of what I can buy here and Barry. So I'll go out and find a single family house, build it into illegalize duplex. Now we can actually add a third unit to like a coach house in my backyard. Haven't done that yet. Sort of. That'll be on as soon as the market slows down and I can't find any more deals, that's where I would go. But right now it's building legalize suites and it's because I can get the profits that I'm looking for. I can force the appreciation and I can do it in my own backyard. I've got three kids. I don't want to be traveling. I want to do as much as I can in my own home.
Dave Debeau [00:01:53] Yeah, that makes sense. So if you don't mind, can you give us kind of an idea like you and I know every property is different, but a typical kind of property that you'd be buying, what's the price point range for?
Susan White Livermore [00:02:04] That depends on what the market is doing right now. I'm looking for single family houses, detached, although I've done it with semi semi detached as well. I was looking for under the four hundred thousand dollar mark here and. However the market is gone stupid, so that might be a little bit more challenging. And we'll put in 80, sometimes a hundred thousand dollars, and that'll throw the value up to 550 to 600 somewhere in there. So we're adding about fifty to one hundred thousand dollars worth of forced depreciation.
Dave Debeau [00:02:45] All right. So you're all in for about five hundred. And at the end of the day, when the smoke clears is worth five fifty to six, give or take.
Susan White Livermore [00:02:52] Yeah. All right. Yeah.
Dave Debeau [00:02:53] Yeah, I that do for the the cash flow on the property, what would that property look like. As a single family home, as a rental versus now as a duplex,
Susan White Livermore [00:03:05] as a single family home that would never cash you, you might get. Nineteen hundred dollars plus utilities, whereas you're looking at about thirty two hundred for the duplex. And then if you add the third unit, you're getting over four or over four thousand. So that fourth unit or the third unit could add a lot of value. Yeah, there's just a lot, lot more bang for your buck on the same piece of property.
Dave Debeau [00:03:32] Most definitely not as much like you say, highest and best use. All right. So, Susan, one of the things that you become very good at is to find, especially in a hot market, because if you're just going and relying on the MLS and relying on your realtor to find deals can be kind of slim pickings. What what or what have you found that works best for you for finding off market deals? So in other words, properties that aren't listed with a realtor.
Susan White Livermore [00:04:00] I have narrowed in I've become an expert on, let's say, about five neighborhoods within Barrie, Ontario, and I started by putting out a very professional letter, sending it out to these people. And I got no response. And then I did a very personal letter. Here's who I am. Here's how long I've lived here. Here's what I'm looking for, very specific. And then I get calls. I'll probably I'll send out about five hundred to a thousand on average. I'm buying two to three per every time I send them out. It is excellent and I think. You know, I've had other I've had conversations with other people, they don't seem to get the same result. People will hold on to it for a long period of time. And so sometimes I'll send it out one year and it'll be a year and a half before I hear from somebody else. And you also get the other thing I'm getting is like neighbors will find out what I did for their neighbor and the like. OK, I'd like to do the same. When we send out letters, a lot of people are like, well, why would anyone sell on a lot less? Well, during covid in particular, people don't want to sell their property, but they didn't want people going to their house or they're embarrassed or they want a quick closing or they want flexibility. To assume that it's all about numbers is setting yourself up for failure and it changes the conversation when you sit down with the seller. So I go in with the expectation that I'm helping people out and I do very well in that respect.
Dave Debeau [00:05:36] Well, I guess also probably a big difference is you're not necessarily going in there to try and get the property for radically under market value like they're going in there. You're probably making a pretty pretty fair. Yeah. If they don't have to be paying a realtor fee, if you guys can kind of split the difference a little bit there, you're
Susan White Livermore [00:06:00] definitely not nickel and diming at all because I know that I can add value. I don't need to take the very last dollar and I'm out to to solve problems from the minute I've actually brought sellers in as investors. So what are you doing with money? Do you want to invest with me? So there's solutions all over the place. It's just when you're on do an aftermarket thing, you can think outside the box and offer more creativity to a seller that they wouldn't even consider if they were just doing all right.
Dave Debeau [00:06:36] So you're sending out five hundred to a thousand of these letters you're focusing on. Did you say five neighborhoods?
Susan White Livermore [00:06:42] Primarily, primarily
Dave Debeau [00:06:45] going to more or less. How many houses are encompassed by those?
Susan White Livermore [00:06:49] Five. Probably five thousand. Five to seven thousand altogether, because I'll do one neighborhood at a time with every six weeks I'll send out a different six to eight weeks. I'll send out a difference to a different neighborhood, some not every month that I'm getting the same neighborhood, but there.
Dave Debeau [00:07:11] So would you say say that you're sending it out to everybody about about once a year at least?
Susan White Livermore [00:07:17] Maybe I would say that that would be fair once a year. There are certain neighborhoods that I love and I do sometimes when I buy beyond what I can handle or want to handle, rather all the wholesale some properties. And so I have some wholesalers that love certain areas. So I'll get them up a little bit more often.
Dave Debeau [00:07:40] Very, very smart. Very cool. Well, hey, there is David, but I just want to give you a quick little heads up that starting in January of twenty, twenty one, we're going to be doing something a little bit different with the Property Profits Real Estate podcast, and that is on Fridays I'm going to be doing something I'm going to call Free Flow Fridays. What does that mean? That means that it's not going to be the typical interview that I do with a leading real estate expert. It's going to be either some Hands-On in-depth training around raising capital, attracting investors or raising capital, which is my specialty, or it's going to be a short but sweet little video blog with some sort of a mindset or of raising capital tidbit, or it's going to be a short one or one conversation, interview style with somebody who is actively raising capital. So the the free flow Fridays are going to be a lot more all around attracting investors and raising capital. So we'll get that started in January. In the meantime, have a very, very happy holiday and all the best to you and your family. Take care. So do you do a no, I'm a marketing nerd myself, so I love all this this kind of stuff, do you do a variety of different messages? Is it pretty much the same letter repeatedly
Susan White Livermore [00:09:08] I have used since I found this one? I it in a hot pink paper because I really like letting them know that there's a female that they're going to be negotiating with
Dave Debeau [00:09:21] somebody who might not think,
Susan White Livermore [00:09:24] Oh, that's true, that's true. I really can say I got great success with that one letter. Haven't really changed up. Now, I recently did a flip with a bunch of you and I'm thinking about adding them in like I had a picture of them and adding them in to see my letter just to create more of here's who I am and here's what I'm about. More of a feel good because, yeah, I think people can be part of something greater than themselves. They're more likely to participate in one way or another, right?
Dave Debeau [00:09:58] Yeah, well, it get their attention better as well, so.
Susan White Livermore [00:10:01] Yeah, that's true too.
Dave Debeau [00:10:02] So is this because I've seen in the past and I've heard people talk about and I've used myself actually the whole old fashioned, you know,
Susan White Livermore [00:10:11] letter and written into it, and
Dave Debeau [00:10:15] that's what you're doing as well on the hot
Susan White Livermore [00:10:16] and written handwritten. And I think I did that the type that you don't get the same response. So you handwrite it.
Dave Debeau [00:10:25] Yeah. Yeah. OK, cool. And now you're so are you including like photographs and stuff like that or. That's not starting to do.
Susan White Livermore [00:10:34] That's what I'm thinking about adding. Yeah. Or a website that they can get more information and then we'll have the whole story of the students and what we do.
Dave Debeau [00:10:46] Yeah. I think just for my marketer mind going here, I think you probably do really well. If you created a a separate sheet and a full color glossy type thing with pictures on it, or it's a lot more work, but it would be very effective if you actually had like. Old fashioned, maybe not Polaroid pictures, but that idea of old fashioned pictures actually inserted with your letter, that's all in the letter. And then they see the pictures and you've got some information. Looks like it's
Susan White Livermore [00:11:20] and have it attached. And I'm going to play and see. And that's the way I've built my business. I try something. It doesn't work. OK, I figured out what doesn't work. And so I just had this inspiration that I want to share more about this. You built like it was kind of fun and. Yeah. So I'm going to add that to it.
Dave Debeau [00:11:39] Yeah. I think I think the picture was something like handwritten on the back of the picture, which is you get all this stuff
Susan White Livermore [00:11:46] done and done for you. OK, I'll try it. We'll see what happens.
Dave Debeau [00:11:50] Let me know how it goes. That's awesome stuff. All right, Susan. So you send out the letters, you're checking that out about once a year, maybe a little bit more to each different neighborhood. Is there anything else that you're doing besides word of mouth that's helping to create some
Susan White Livermore [00:12:07] deal flow stuff, to create some buzz or I mean, put signs up at every house that I'm working on while we're working on it? Reassigns one of the sites. It's just millionaire mom, another project by millionaire mom. But really, it's the letters that I get the most response time. And that's why I keep going after it. Right. Because it's working. Yeah. Yeah. And it keeps me in my backyard.
Dave Debeau [00:12:35] I'm an old guy. I love old fashioned direct mail. And there's so little competition and especially for smaller city. What's the population of Berry these days?
Susan White Livermore [00:12:46] Good question. One hundred. And I'm going to get this wrong. I want to say one hundred and seventy thousand, but I'm not really sure.
Dave Debeau [00:12:53] I know that probably sounds right. So as far as cities goes, it's still and especially in Ontario, it's still a fairly small city.
Susan White Livermore [00:12:59] So yeah. Yeah, yeah. But growing like crazy. Like crazy.
Dave Debeau [00:13:04] Yeah, I. Well that's fantastic. OK, very cool. Thanks for sharing that. That's interesting stuff. Now what about you touched on it. Investor partners. What, what have you found to be effective for you for bringing on and what do you do for investor partners. You bring on JV partners, you just on hard money lenders.
Susan White Livermore [00:13:25] What do it at all. Yeah, I do joint venture partners, I do money partners and I do mortgage qualifiers. I it's kind of what whoever lands on my lap like right now because the market is so hot, I'm getting inundated. Oh I've got this money, I got credit. And I'd like to do because the market is so hot. That's what people are talking about. So I was sort of coming to me now. So when I first started it was I was going after the low hanging fruit, those people that I already knew me, that already trusted me and was willing to go on this adventure with me. But now I'm getting them from all over the place because once you get the snowball rolling, it kind of goes on its own. Yeah, yeah. I do everything
Dave Debeau [00:14:10] as long as a person's careful the whole Securities Commission and making sure you don't cross the line too much there. Yeah, most
Susan White Livermore [00:14:17] definitely. Yes, absolutely.
Dave Debeau [00:14:19] A good way to go for sure. Awesome. Awesome stuff, Susan. Yeah. So if people are interested in finding out more about you and what you do, I think I think you offer some forces and some.
Susan White Livermore [00:14:30] Yeah, that's a little bit of a I. I'm big on newbies teaching them newbies how to get into the market and just the basic information that they've got to know to avoid the major catastrophes, things that you can't tweak once you're in the market like once you've bought. So I teach a course. It's an online course that focuses only on that those basic things and the mindset that is necessary, because I think that's one of the biggest things that we struggle with, is being able to get to that point of pulling the trigger and getting beyond all the naysayers. And you've done your homework and you're stuck in analysis paralysis. So my course teaches we spend a lot of time, half the course on teaching about mindset and how to get yourself to build that confidence, to take a step forward and how you can protect yourself against all the negative out there. And then along with that, the how tos just the base dealing with the basic market, no matter what strategy you're using, this is the sort of information that you absolutely need to understand so you can find that at the millionaire got s.A under courses. I just offer the one course right now online and then I do one on one training as well. So once you've taken the course then you want more detail on let's set a goal and get you through that first purchase or where you're getting stuck, whatever it might be. I do that one on one as well.
Dave Debeau [00:16:05] Fantastic. Susan, thank you very much. It's been a lot of fun.
Susan White Livermore [00:16:09] Thank you. Take care.
Dave Debeau [00:16:10] All right. All right, everybody take care. We'll talk to you in the next episode. Well, hey there. Thanks for tuning into the property profits podcast. If you like this episode, that's great. Please go ahead and subscribe on iTunes. Give us a good review. That would be awesome. I appreciate that. And if you're looking to attract investors and raise capital for your deals, that may invite you to get a complimentary copy of my newest book right back there. There it is, the money partner formula. You get a PDF version at investor attraction book, dot com again, investor attraction book, dot com ticker.