Passive Investing in Private Lending and Oakville, Ontario with Jay Gabrani Part 2

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Podcast Transcription

Erwin Szeto [00:00:11] Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, investors across Canada. My name is Erwin Szeto. And welcome to the truth about real estate investing show. As always, I have the pleasure of interviewing the titans of Canadian real estate to figure out what makes them successful. We will learn from our teachings, learn from their mistakes and experiences so we to replicate their success. Happy August, everyone, and happy birthday to my Wonder Woman wife who has her own business. Does CrossFit three times a week? Mom to our beautiful kids runs our whole household and the most difficult part taking care of me. Happy sixth birthday! Her birthday cake had six candles and really, our kids actually believe she is six years old. To celebrate Cherry’s birthday like anyone when they turn 18. Notice I’m dancing around her actual age. If we went to Niagara Falls this past Friday to start to start off with joint, we were joined by fellow real estate investor Charles Wahl, who took and we took a relaxing cruise down the Niagara River in a whirlpool jet boat seated in the front row. I posted my Instagram online so you can see that it wasn’t relaxing. It’s actually pretty crazy. A whirlpool jet boat is a high powered boat with four engines, and we’re cruising down even not cruising, crashing along the Tigris River and the Level five Whitewater Rapids. Have we got drenched? It was a lot of fun, actually. After that, we were all hungry, so we picked out at the Sheraton small view. All you can eat buffet, followed by a walk around Clifton Hill to burn off some calories. Check out the scene. Niagara Falls is really busy and there’s been a ton of investment in that area, including that new mini putt in the very, very new go karts go kart track. But we just want to walk around. We didn’t do any of that stuff. We actually walked over to the Szeto Niagara to play blackjack or Cherry, sat down with $100 and walked away with one hundred and fifty dollars. Yay. We did lose money again. Happy birthday to my wife! Cherry cheer. We have a quick announcement. Upcoming Halton Real Estate Investor Group meeting is September 15th. We have John Berman and Greg Korczak to come just speak. John is our successful investor friend who has returned $800000 in just seven years, and he’s asked to share how he’s using demographic data to drive his renovation decisions and raises rents. Greg, Kortrijk, if you’re not familiar with him, he’s a super successful e-commerce and Amazon entrepreneur, and he’s a hugely in-demand trainer on building such businesses. Greg is a friend. He’s a huge supporter of a registered charity, Hamilton Bush Brigade, and he will be sharing how he built businesses, grossing six figures a month. Yes, that’s six figures a month. You don’t want to miss this. If you’re not already on the invite list, you can do so by signing up at WW W Dot Truth about real estate investing dossier meeting again, this w WW Dot Truth about real estate investing dossier slash meeting onto this week’s show Passive Investing After Loss in Private Lending in Oakville, Ontario, with Jacob Brandie, part two real estate investor and single dad did three Jacob REIN news back in the show to share his passive investment strategies, private lending and investing in single family houses in Oakville, Ontario. Jay’s investing is so passive you have sufficient time to homeschool all three of his kids for high school. That’s right, the time and patience to homeschool three kids. For those not familiar with private lending, or even if you have listened to J Strategy to mitigate risks. Planning exit and maximize returns. I’ve spoken to many investors who risk considerably more with their stride with their private lending strategies. Whereas Jay’s Strategy J Strategy may be the soundest I’ve heard Jays Oakville investing as educational as well as many investors, including myself, made investment decisions based on top 10 list somewhere to buy, whereas Jay goes off the board to evaluate the economic fundamentals of his hometown in Oakville, Ontario. Lessons are particularly educational because if you remember from part one, Jay was able to take a three year sabbatical after the loss of his wife to mourn and care for his three kids. If you want to learn how to take three years off, you want to have a listen to 2018’s most talked about, yes. So without further ado, I give you Jacob Randi. Sorry, before I give to Jay Gabrani, I totally forgot. Jay is our guest speaker at the Halton REI on November 25th, where he’ll be coming in to share in this share his story and also his three strategies on passive investing. This is not something you want to miss again. Please register W WW Dot Truth about Real Estate investing dossier slash meeting. I have three things are done; I need to ask you last. The last discussion we had around making money, so listeners, we’re going to talk about making money because it still is important. People talk about money is the what the source of all evil. It can be a big source of happiness to its own.

Jay Gabrani [00:05:13] People with money still have problems. Well, they do have problems. They just arrive at their problems and a little bit of style. So it’s the only difference.

Erwin Szeto [00:05:20] Yeah, it’s well, the way I like to think of it. Would you rather have 300 grand in the bank or the bank, 300000?

Jay Gabrani [00:05:27] Well, but

Erwin Szeto [00:05:29] who do you think is happier and who has less stress in their life?

Jay Gabrani [00:05:34] Yes. And you may be for the younger families out there. Yeah. Like, that’s why you’re if you’re taking steps and you’re taking future steps to build your wealth, there’s no predictability to it, but you have to get yourself in the position. You can’t like to get any wealth if you’re not doing anything, if you’re not investing in anything, right? People are out there grinding and grinding and working hard. And that’s great. How hard you work has nothing to do with how well you retire. Mm-Hmm. Maybe people don’t click it. What you invest in will have to do with How will you retire or not? How hard you work. It’s totally backwards. You work hard in order to make money and then eventually save money and you take those savings and invest where you where you put that money is what will determine. How will you retire? Not ohaji. Where you can work 60 hours a week. It’s yeah, too bad. It’s later on. You have to make it. Remember, I think when we asked the question, What are we teaching the kids or what am I teach my kids? I said digital marketing, sales and investing, investing. The first two are to make the money. The third one is to help them protect, keep growth. That is it. And again, it doesn’t matter what industry, what business were nothing. Those are the three skills. So people who are working hard. Slow it down. Plan it out a little bit more. And yeah, then you got to plant seeds in order to build wealth. So you probably had a question there. So you are finally.

Erwin Szeto [00:07:06] So let’s start with the private lending, is what you called it.

Jay Gabrani [00:07:12] I call it Bradley. Okay?

Erwin Szeto [00:07:13] Definitely. Explain private lending. And what is it you do?

Jay Gabrani [00:07:17] Fantastic. So basically, what do we know? We know as investors, we’re almost like, we’re the borrowers. We go to big institutions, usually right the schedule. They bank some the online lenders, the home trust type of guys, and for whatever reasons, sometimes it doesn’t work out. But the project is still good, so the borrowers need another source of funds. And like we talked about last time, being on the other side of the transaction, when you borrow those sorts of funds, you’re paying some pretty heavy interest. And I did that way back when I borrowed second money or second mortgage money and high interest rate. I paid 12. I’ve paid 15 before. I’d done all that as the borrower. But then as your assets grow and you realize being on the other side of that transaction, if you don’t want to own the property and you lend against it, then there’s people who need that money and especially given the January rule changes. It’s even more prevalent now. Right at lending world is exploding. And because we talked about or sorry, we didn’t talk about it, but because the U.S. started that whole, you know, that whole quantitative easing thing, right, that they started it nine years ago. Well, what does that mean? It meant that their money supply went from like 800 billion up to like four trillion. So at the end of the day,

Erwin Szeto [00:08:37] five times,

Jay Gabrani [00:08:38] yeah, it was like four or five times in like six years, and it’s just after 800 billion. It took them like 200 years to get to OK. And then in like six, seven years, they 100 percent hit it. That money landed in people’s hands. So when you have the opportunity, what do you think a Real Estate like a Real Estate went up booming for this stuff? Right? So when you have the opportunity to take your money and then create income with it, lending is a fantastic opportunity. There’s lots of borrowers and then lenders. If you are sourced into the world of, well, if you have a really good broker like people might be asking you, How do I make money? I got some money. All right, it’s sitting idle, you know, 100, 200, 300 grand, whatever. And I want to. I want to take part. So you’re going to if you yourself aren’t connected into the world, you have to get yourself one or two really good mortgage brokers who get these deals brought to them all the time. I would certainly recommend that you focus on an area. I really don’t do much lending outside of Oakville, Mississauga, the areas I grew up in. So I know all the areas super well. If you are lending, there’s one golden rule, if you. It’s called loan, its own it. If you’re going to loan on it, you better be prepared if shit hits the fan. Something happens to the borrower. They can’t pay you. You better be prepared ultimately to own that property. You don’t want to own the property. That’s why you’re lending and you’re not being the buyer and doing the renovation or doing whatever your borrower is doing. So if you follow that one rule, now we have a we have a framework with which to do some lending it. Now, if you cut it down to an area, you know your chances of success, i.e. getting your money back and getting your interest on top. Go way up if you are sourced into a real estate organization or right leg if you are sourced with a real estate investing group, a networking group. There’s lots and lots of candidates. There’s lots of back and forth. So if you just kind of use that framework and you got idle money, it’s a great it’s a great asset class because you’re still protected by real estate. If you understand real estate, you should be doing private mortgages as opposed to doing something else, which you don’t understand that it’s quite easy if you understand loan to value, you understand equity, they’re putting in the down payment, then you’re just the lender and that’s it. Like you’re a private lender. Person to person or corporation to person. And that’s all. So when we talk about what I’ve done it, I’ve done it in two things. One is I opened up a mic. So a mortgage investment corporation, right? So that is if people want to invest their RRSP money and such. Here’s what I found when I opened. It is I didn’t. There’s one thing that I really didn’t like about that whole mix structure on top of the lake. That’s why an accounting background. So it has a lot of administrative details and lot of paperwork hassles, but I can deal with all that. But what I didn’t like was that second, someone gave me their money like an investor who wants to invest in the mic gives me their money. Their interest clock starts day one. Where is the pick? When it wants to lend out the money might not get a deal for 14 20, a suitable deal 14 30, 35 days. So there was a mismatch. So I said, OK, wait a second. Forget this. Forget this mismatch business because this is because now what is it? The pressure that is on me, right? The pressure is on me because my investors getting paid, but then I have to place the money. But now it’s called the philosophy is called that’s called chasing for a yield. Yeah, I investors clock is ticking and that money is just sitting in my account. I have this mentality of, Oh shit, I better get this out.

Erwin Szeto [00:12:32] And it’s not a good place to be

Jay Gabrani [00:12:34] that you don’t want that. Give it all that crap. So now what I do is very simple is I do lending outside of the mic with my own money. I have about, you know, mid six figures, just a little bit under that led do it. And now I have people who partner with me in terms of age. If there’s a mortgage is, let’s say it’s a $300000 second mortgage and you’ve vetted it, you’ve taken it, you know, you’ve done your numbers or whatever, which I always do. Can I chip in? I’ll chip in 100 of that. Whatever needs of that type of a thing

Erwin Szeto [00:13:09] or send the kid mortgage has a bad word.

Jay Gabrani [00:13:13] I’m sure

Erwin Szeto [00:13:14] I’m teasing. I’m teasing.

Jay Gabrani [00:13:16] No, no, no. It’s a good mortgage, I know.

Erwin Szeto [00:13:18] But by definition, just one more lenders. More than one lender makes a syndicated mortgage.

Jay Gabrani [00:13:24] Yes, so it’s a little bit more disclosure, a little bit more paperwork at the end of the day, though. Again, if you’re going to be the lender in a private lending situation, have you understand that the person is coming to you because they do have issues already understand those issues and work with them? Really silly conversation I had. This is a while back, but the fellow wanted to do private lending, but he’s like, No, gee, I don’t want to. I want to earn like 12 percent, but I want the credit score to be high. I want the income to be good. I’m like, If that kid, you’re not coming to you, then they’re going to the schedule a bank and paying two or three percent. Yeah, they’re not going to come and pay you. So people will. I don’t know what their mindset is, but they want the unicorn.

Erwin Szeto [00:14:04] I know where I am.

Jay Gabrani [00:14:05] But yeah, so private lending is if you’re in real estate, it’s a great asset class. It gives you a lot of diversification from the stock market, from bonds. Yet it also gives you yield. So if you follow that framework right, where if you’re prepared to own it, it’s shit hits the fan you are lending in an area you like on a property, on property types you like, right? I learned on residential, I don’t lend commercial, I don’t lend industrial, I don’t understand them. I understand residential and I especially understand residential in south Oakville. So I refuse stuff from North Oakville just because, yeah, you live three minutes away from me, but I don’t really know your market. But if you’re in South Oakville, if you’re on this side of the QE w anywhere from Buffalo to. Whatever Trafalgar, I know your street and I, you know, and it’s a quick drive by your house to determine if I want to land. And it’s all and it’s numbers. It’s a simple to write. So Real Estate investors should like it because it’s numbers. It’s easy to calculate. It’s not hard so you can dig in anywhere you want. But that’s kind of the overview of private lending great asset class for people who are looking for some diversification and income.

Erwin Szeto [00:15:15] Not actually. So what’s a typical deal size like? How much are people looking to borrow?

Jay Gabrani [00:15:20] All that. You know what, that’s all over the map in Oakville, it just tends to be higher simply because our house prices are higher, right? So very rarely what I will. I see anything and all under 100000 is very rare. A lot of them are two, three, maybe 500000 if they have a lot of equity, which a lot of a typical family here in Oakville. If you’ve lived here longer than 10, 10 years, if you moved here twenty eight ish, you have a lot of equity in your house unless you were doing the ATM thing and borrowing all along. But if you weren’t, you built up a lot of equity, but you don’t have any income and the banks won’t give you or you have very limited income or whatever. The banks won’t give you the nice, low interest. He locks great interest only payments so that but if you need money, there’s that whole other world. That’s the private lender world. So it’s for people who have some issues as the borrowers. But they should have good deals, though. That’s what I like. I like more like, I don’t want to just lend someone money on a second mortgage and just because they just kind of need it, you need to make it work because then to be very honest with you, unless they say, A.J., you know what? I need it now, but we’re planning to fix up our house and we’re selling. And you’ll get paid out, if that’s the case. Fine. But if it’s not, I don’t want to do one of those because at the end of the day, the longer term you are in with a private mortgage or a private lender as the borrower, the longer your term. It’s tough to get out like unless you’re selling, unless you have a great plan. I like renovation projects, the al-Youm projects, because now I can see, yeah, I’ll happily give you two hundred grand or whatever, because I know you’re going to increase your value for under. No problem. All get paid out. And even if you can’t pay me out immediately, it’s OK. You’ve built up more equity for someone who’s like, Yeah, you know what? I don’t have tons of cash right now. I have a lot of equity. Can I get a hundred grand even if they have a lot of equity? I’m not that interested in because I don’t want to. I don’t want eventually kind of like, bury them, right? So I try to be a value added lender, right? But some people, some guys out there and again, if you’re going to deal with a private, some guys are piranhas, man, I’m going to tell you that straight away they are little and they are looking for they’re looking for blood like they want you to default. They want you to default because they want a property, right? And I don’t want that. So I want you to add value and pay me back with my interest and all for me again later. But that’s what I want. I don’t want to deal with taking a house or foreclosing or power selling or anything like that. So fortunately, that hasn’t happened. But if it does happen, it’s like Real Estate. There’s a full team in place and ready to handle all that right? That’s not a real estate lawyer. That’s a debt. That’s a litigation lawyer. So one before I started the mic, I interviewed three different litigation lawyers. I made sure because hey, man, I haven’t gone through a foreclosure. So what happens if, because now I’m right, I’m investing people’s money? It’s just like three venture money is saying, man. But instead of joint venture where you’re you made the same amount in this. Yeah, I was paying for. So no, no, no, that didn’t work out very well with the mic. So just make sure that you kind of covered these bases and it’s perfect for some. In my case was very simple around the Real Estate did really well, the equity built up really well. So I have all of this equity and it looks fantastic on a balance sheet, but I didn’t have tons and tons of liquidity. So if the if the money is locked up in the walls of houses, then it’s tough to access, right? So fit that if you can fit that. So I pulled some money off the table when I sold the property, see a refi at a property, put money in a bank and then I sold the property because I wanted liquidity and I wanted the ability to use money to make more money in terms of income. We used money to invest in real estate for our long term wealth. It wasn’t necessarily for tons and tons of at least an auto, by the way. I know that in Hamilton, if you do suites and stuff, you can get quite a bit more cash flow per project or for a property. And also, it wasn’t like that. So you were cash flow 200 250 300 bucks a month on a property. But that property went up in the course of six years and went up like five hundred six hundred thousand. So you see the mismatch there, right? Like it’s just you’re sitting on equity, but it’s not bringing you as much money as you want, but you built up skills investing skills that if you have money liquidity, you can turn that into cash flow. And that was talked about last time. Private lending is the one I picked, which was bigger. The second one was selling the and I’ll clarify the options conversation last night. I should have said selling put options. I mentioned the call option that is not what I was talking about. Selling put options is where you get the money and then you let the clock tick down. Selling a call option, you actually already own the stock, and that’s not what I like, I don’t want to answer. All right, so will clarify that, but those two things alone, if you’re sitting on money. Use money to make money without very limited again, very little effort. Very passive, because my priorities are my kids, so I want to spend a lot of time with them. You have to have ways that. The clock keeps ticking, but it’s, you know, the money keeps coming in every Monday. So average deal size in Oakville, by the way, that was your question. It’s pretty well, always six figures. But sure, some of the smaller communities, whatever deal sizes like, I wouldn’t really do anything under 100000 REIN nowadays. Like, it’s just not my thing. But there’s lots of lenders who will do a 35 $50000 second. When I started in Edmonton and that whole thing was, yeah, pull up money over seconds, that’s the days that I was paying every interest. 40000 50000 second mortgages. So you can start with whatever level you want. If you want to do lending, but start small, start small. And if you’re a little bit uncertain, let’s say you have 100 150 grand instead of putting it in one big deal. Take part in two or three smaller deals. Partner with some people. Risk goes down. Chances of success go up. And that’s the way to get the feet wet. All right. So but again, exit strategy wise, it’s still reliant on the borrower, right? If the borrower is paying you, then an exit strategy is different. It’s down the road. It’s not like tap on a button or on a keyboard and you exit your stock position in the money. So you got to understand everything is match drive. Your goal has to be matched, your timeline has to be matched and you must understand the exits might be delayed. The exit might look like they say they’re borrowing the money for eight months. What happens if they need for 10? You got to you have to be on display until the money is paid back to you. But you have to really play it by ear a little bit. So hopefully that explained a little bit about private lending. If people wanted to do it, then. Yeah, it’s pretty good.

Erwin Szeto [00:22:27] And just like in any sort of real estate deal, there’s lots of bad private mortgages, just like there’s bad real estate deals. So horrible for everyone. You know, exercise caution. Everything’s relative. So if you’re new to this, you need some more guidance. And to understand, you probably need a really good lead source. So. So, Jay, I want to ask you, what can you share your lead source for? For, yeah, for privates?

Jay Gabrani [00:22:56] Yeah, sure. So basically, I went around again investing in Oakville for so long now since I’ve lived here since 2006 and started investing in 2009 after Edmonton. So over time, you get to know who right? You build your team up. So I know some key realtors, I know all of the mortgage brokers in Oakville. So if I want to lend in Oakville, I go to the Oakville mortgage brokers because they tend to get the deals right there, right? Right. And so I am connected with three of the bigger mortgage brokers. I have done some fliers myself, right? And just to distribute them through Canada post. No kidding. Oh, no problem. Marketing and marketing. Anyway, you’ve talked about it. I’m sure you got to get your own heat source to let you know what the American guys when they teach that strategy of the yellow letter. Yet the yellow letter, so whatever, it’s kind of a copy of that, except for lending interest.

Erwin Szeto [00:23:57] I never heard anyone do that before for lending.

Jay Gabrani [00:24:00] For sure. Sure. Like our brokers or brokers, and that’s fine. They they’ll bring sources, but sometimes at the end of the day, like one of the last ones I did, it was a senior citizen couple. They wouldn’t have met a mortgage broker. They wouldn’t know who their mortgage broker. They nothing. But they saw my flier and they gave me a call and I had to go over there and sit down with them for about two hours to explain it. Right. Because they didn’t understand and I was like, Well, maybe you should get a mortgage. Oh, no, we’re comfortable with you. We’re comfortable talking with you. We know that we’re comfortable. So at the end of the day, there are a lot of shysters out there time and yeah, lots of shysters. So leads the leads in these days, especially Erwin. Once you kind of get in on a little bit. Yeah, as you’ll do lending, especially in value added projects. But think of all the flippers that you know

Erwin Szeto [00:24:51] and they’re all looking for money.

Jay Gabrani [00:24:53] Everyone’s looking for money. So it’s not that hard. If you have money and you want to put it out, right, it’s not very difficult. The leads are all around us

Erwin Szeto [00:25:02] is actually funny. I was talking to a pretty successful mortgage guy in Hamilton and I asked him, Oh, you do you do seconds? He goes, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally awesome. How’s things working out for you? How we got to the point. But he said, Oh no, no, I have too much money. I need to lend it out. Just like your make problem, you already had the money he needs to find homes for the money.

Jay Gabrani [00:25:27] That’s true. Now you’ll see a lot of the competitors right now really see under the banks and under the model lines. There are a level, a bigger mix, the corporate mixer. I like the really big. And right now I’m watching them. They are fighting left, right and center to get deals, but all of them are still expensive. It’s not like they’re chopping their feet. They might go on their lender REIN a little bit. They might pay for the appraisal. All these little ticking bobs to try and get your deal. But there’s a lot of money sitting. It won’t be like this and another two to three years because see, again, I have a feeling probably 99 percent of your audience will not know this quantitative easing everyone knew about. Right? Everyone knew that there was $40 billion being infiltrated or put into the market and the money supply was increasing. Well, in September of 2017, that started reversing. They are now pulling money out of the system for the last. It’s been only 10 months now, but they are now pulling out $450 billion a month out of the money system and give it another couple of years to three years. Then you’re going to start seeing the money supply get back down a little bit. And now all of a sudden, all the people who are sitting on money, they may not have it as much. Right. So it’s something to be aware of when I talk to you about the Stansberry stuff last time. That’s the type of level like, that’s the type of research I’m talking about, right, is that you find out things and they point things out to you that as you’re going about your everyday life, you would never even think about much less realize like you wouldn’t even know to think about something like that, how it would affect you. Right. That’s what’s happening. Capital is going to get a lot tighter. The rates have already started going up the. To go up some more. But that’s after artificial rates have been suppressed for eight years. It was a playbook family. We talked about open playbook last time. Back then, in 2009, it was a playbook. It was set. The government said, We are going to print money. Well, where’s this money going to go? Any asset, any hard asset is going to go up in value. And that’s what’s happened. Are Real Estate skyrocketed. Stocks have skyrocketed two to 300 percent. So it was there. And now the playbook is open as well that open book exam. So hopefully people can adjust their money and their money mindset based on kind of what we’re talking about here. And don’t just it’s not the same advice for everybody. Not even close. It’s very, very different advice where you are in life, what you’re looking to get, what you’re looking to accomplish. I’m not looking to build some more equity. I’m looking to just use my equity and create income. Well, but 10 years ago, it was no man. Let’s build equity. Let’s generate wealth.

Erwin Szeto [00:28:12] Is it made sense?

Jay Gabrani [00:28:13] Yeah, that made sense at that time. So your goals are I was going to change. When my wife passed away, my goals changed. My things changed. So if people have to go through that, they have to go through that. People who tell you all don’t never sell a property or whatever, not you to you do it like that. Don’t worry about what anyone else says, right? Everyone runs their own race.

Erwin Szeto [00:28:35] So like, this is like to me, like life. Stuff aside, this is all based on what we practice in our Real Estate businesses is all based on economic fundamentals. You go back to Obama’s first term, he said. We are going to double exports. You know, yeah, he’s going to do that, devalue the currency. I sure hope, like you said, open book exam. He’s telling us what they’re going to do to print money, devalue the U.S. dollar. What do you think’s going to happen, right?

Jay Gabrani [00:29:08] Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, lending for people who are looking at credit, be careful over the next couple of years. Don’t get yourself in something that that you’re going to have a tough time getting out of. You know, I screwed up right at the beginning, got bad mortgages, high interest rates, and it took me a few years to kind of screw myself into the ground. It took me about five years to screw it, get myself unscrewed. You know what I mean? Because mortgages write, mortgages have terms on them. And yeah, like some of you might go through some bad stuff if you get yourself in a bad mortgage, which I did. So hopefully the audience doesn’t have to make that mistake.

Erwin Szeto [00:29:45] So Jay, how are you doing for time? Because we’ve taken a lot of your time?

Jay Gabrani [00:29:49] And it’s Friday summer, right? So when we spoke, we spoke for one, whatever it was a few weeks ago to reschedule three weeks. Kids are in school now. It’s like a bomb goes. I was like, Oh my goodness. All, like, everything changes so quickly inside of a week, right? So this is my fourth summer, so I was better prepared for it this time. And so, time wise, they’re all at the park, OK? We did our YMCA thing, so we’re good. How to remember yours is good.

Erwin Szeto [00:30:15] I want to ask you that the Alberta stuff?

Jay Gabrani [00 :30 :18] Yeah, sure. Sure.

Erwin Szeto [00:30:19] So what year was that?

Jay Gabrani [00:30:21] Yeah. If we look at the chronology, it’s pretty simple. So married 2004 First Sun 2005 August joined REIN in December, started watching Nick and Tom stuff shortly thereafter, and was basically figuring out, OK, what the hell do I do now? There’s this little boy and I held it the first day I held him. Erwin I don’t know if you did this or if this happened to you. First day I held him. I have a picture of him lying on my chest at one day old that it was like a mind blowing event for me, right? And to me, it was like, Holy shit. Like, what do we do now? How do I handle this?

Erwin Szeto [00:30:58] I’m responsible for this.

Jay Gabrani [00:30:59] Yes, I’m responsible for this. Like, Oh my god. So, yeah, so study with REIN. And of course, back then Edmonton was smoking hot did the first Toronto week or 2006, but Edmonton, Edmonton, Edmonton was constantly in the air. It was going up 5000 8000 a month. I was like, shit, I got to get out to Edmonton, so I flew out there, did an Edmonton A.. And on that trip, A. I was there for about seven days. I placed four offers and got three of them accepted. So. Two of them with two of them, I didn’t end up waiving conditions. Two of them, I did. So I close those two and that was not quite. It was just January, February 2007 and September 2007 and right before. So I’ll give you the numbers. The purchases were two hundred and seventy and two hundred and seventy five thousand. OK, three bedroom, a very focused area, three bedroom townhouses in North Edmonton, north of 156 Avenue. I had it focused off where it was just these little townhouses. And if you remember Edmonton, they were teaching us. There’s this being a big ring road was built around it and it’s it. So I strategically picked where is the last part of the Ring Road going to be built? And it was North Edmonton. It was that last highway. I said, OK, it’s going to take about three to four years for this to be built. I’m going to focus right there in that area and I’m going to buy right here in that area. So the purchases I made were literally like a minute or two from each other, right? And unfortunately, though, timing was just horrible. Yes, the market had gone up. If I had bought the day one, I started, I started REIN. I would have bought that same property at hundred and fifty thousand instead of two hundred and eighty thousand because in that year and a half, from 2005 to 2007, it skyrocketed. And it was like, Holy shit, it’s going up. I’m going to miss out. I’m sure know the gay thing right there might have felt the GTA thing we’re going to miss out. So it’s go ahead, go down to about 200000 in about six months. And it was running negative cash flow because you get in for the fear of missing out and you’re spending a couple of hundred bucks a month because you’re in a high interest rate mortgage. So Edmonton did not go well. It was a it was a fucking disaster. So but then I was like, Holy shit, and I was devastated, man, because then my second child, Serena, was born February 2007 and I was like, Oh, what am I doing? Really, literally, how could you buy at the Ultra top? And within six months, it fell under 200000. So regardless, you know what? I was like shit. I have to regroup because I had spent so many hours, like so much time, because I didn’t know anything about Real Estate before my kid was born. I didn’t own any Real Estate none. So 2005, I still didn’t own anything. I was learning and I do business. I didn’t know Real Estate, so I spent 18 months or whatever 14 ish months like just educating like maybe where some of your listeners are now, they haven’t done it yet and they’re getting their feet wet. There were people like you around 10 years ago. There wasn’t a Halton REI 10 years ago. Yeah, there were some, you know, REIN and Nick and Tom. Even Nick and Tom ten years ago were not as developed as they are now. Not even close, right? So there weren’t that many people in places that you can learn from. So REIN, even we learned from REIN, but even REIN today is so much different than what it was back then, right? There wasn’t coaching and there were the mentorship wasn’t there. So nowadays you shouldn’t have to make those mistakes. If you are able to get a coach or a mentor back then, maybe I could have not made those mistakes, but I jumped in and I made the mistakes, and then I switched. Then it was focus Oakville. Then I was like, Oh shit, I better not worry about Edmonton too much. I better focus right here on my backyard. And no matter all the devastation that I went through, and by the way, the devastation was a lot in my head and it was a lot on the balance sheet. But the one thing I look back 10 years now, I still own those things in Edmonton. That’s one hundred and twenty months, right? Those things have only been vacant for three hundred and twenty. So even though the market value of the properties went down under 200000, the rental rates and the vacancy was pretty much non-existent. So the point I’m trying to make here for your people are, you know, the house price is really an opinion. The cash flow you get is a fact. You just get the facts. Get the facts. Worry about cashflow. It’s not going to replace one. Property is not going to replace your lifestyle. Not even close. You’re going to have to build up a good portfolio to get cash flow and all of these different places. But if you just concentrate on getting positive, that’s fine. Even if the house price goes up or down. All right. So now, 10 years later, we’ve paid about 35 to 40000 of pay down. So now we’re getting into the area where I’m not, I’m not doing horribly because it’s come back up a little bit. So. It is still a long term game. Right, I didn’t sell and take a 30, 40, $50000 loss. I didn’t sell. And because I was worried about the opinion of the house. So for your people, if you have a property which might be a little bit underwater to try and get it so that it just gets even or breaks even and makes a little money and then just hang on to it because it’ll change later. It might not change now. But remember, it was 25 year money. That’s when I talked about people mismatch. They want to make money in a year and they go buy a property. Well, don’t do that. That’s the shorter your timeframe, the higher your risk. Right? If you flip projects, flips are great. They’re not for me. I don’t like flipping. I don’t like the short term stuff. I don’t like the tax rules behind all kinds of stuff. But more importantly, it’s just such a huge concentration of time that in my mind, you never really get paid for it. Right. So I never liked it. But that short term aspect, some people do it, but you don’t realize when you were flipping and you have like, Oh, I want to get this property renovated, put it back on the market in eight months and months. You’re taking risk because if the market, if the government introduces new mortgage rules, then the market’s going to change. And now all of a sudden, you’re your market is not as robust. There’s so many more things out of your control. The shorter your time frame and your risk goes way up. Whereas if you have 25 of your money, like I did in Edmonton, like I do in Oakville. Who cares? Doesn’t that just mean spirited and so switching go kill after reading acres of diamonds acres of diamonds was the key book to say OK, wait a second. OK, well, I live right here, so what’s wrong with this? There’s so I took the REIN scorecard and Erwin. It’s here somewhere, and it’s probably really dirty. But out of 20, Okello scored 16. No one knew it. No one talked about it. No one at REIN mentioned it, but especially south Oakville, in particular, south Oakville. I narrowed it down. So again, I’m a big guy and focus. All right, so here’s the focus. Third line, fourth line. Rebecca and Spears literally a one kilometer by two kilometer rectangle. Every property I bought was in that rectangle. I knew every street; I knew every sale price of every house. I knew the tenant profile. I knew my ultimate buyers. Who’s going to buy this thing from me years and years from now? So I had it mapped and I had it researched where I was basically going. No, realtors were doing this. I was going down and I was calculating the cost per square foot of the gross lot. Why here was the one powerful factor. The gentrification factor was super powerful in south Oakville. Why 50 70 year old bungalows were in the area I live in and was investing in. They were all being torn down and they’re still being torn down. And the three, you know, over 3000 3500 square foot executive homes being put up. It was my insurance policy, especially after my disaster in Edmonton. I was like because I didn’t have money left, by the way, when I switched focused Oakville, I put my money in it and it was gone that fast. That’s when I started bringing in some joint venture money was in Oakville. I showed them my binder, right? They the sophisticated in investment binders for the bank. I had an Oakville binder and binder means it is here. Very simple logic. Simple enough, man. Simple enough. I started this binder in two thousand and nine and it’s made me millions of dollars. Plain and simple. No other, no other. There’s no other way to say it. So I knew my area better than pretty all anybody. And that’s where I brought people’s money in. And it was simple. We invest in three bedroom bungalows on 60 by 120 footlights down the street from Big Brother. I call Big Brother any house which was renovated and put up. So we were buying small little brother. As long as we were down the street from Big Brother, we were fine. My partners are, you know, like and they never doubted it. They said, Jay, even like my first partner was the best man in my wedding, was my best man, right? And I explained, it’s when I go, Look, man, I started in Edmonton and I bonds. I didn’t do very good, but I am rejigging it here and I have a feeling there’s a great opportunity right here in Oakville. I showed up in the Gold Mine scorecard. I showed up binder and when I mean, like I was into it, I was into it. Like every realtor, like some realtors, they put out the stats. Back then, internet wasn’t as prevalent. It was mailed. I would read everything, read every single stat. I know the median prices, the average price. I knew everything. Days on market without being a realtor, right? I knew the mortgage rules without being a mortgage broker. I knew all of that stuff simply because that’s what we learned and we network and we ask other people, etc. So the knowledge is there. But then taking the action is the important step. You take the action and you’re going to make some mistakes. It’s OK, make some mistakes and let’s move on. So that is when I switched to Oakville, that was the key. But I wouldn’t have known this would still Oakville if I didn’t screw up in Edmonton, probably. So that’s the real. That’s the real estate journey now is you’ve heard the term in business called pivot while people start in one business and they pivot into another. Well, I started in Edmonton. I pivoted Oakville. Thank goodness I did. The scorecard. Is there the fundamentals of their long term outlook? It’s almost impossible to fail. You have those things match if you have fundamentals and then you have a long term time horizon. Very difficult. And we talked about the last time 25-Year open book test for GTA, right? If you have a one year outlook, yeah, you might lose money. You might not do well, especially if you want to flip it or whatever. You have a 25 year outlook. Your kids are going to be thankful you did, right? And that’s we. I think we mentioned maybe we didn’t do it on the podcast, but you and I definitely talked about housing for kids. I tell people in GTA, not Canada GTA. You should be more concerned with your kids housing than their education because they’re going to have a bigger issue with housing than getting the education they want because education now is available on the internet.

Erwin Szeto [00:43:11] Housing isn’t so we funded our housing slide housing for you and I is not.

Jay Gabrani [00:43:18] So, yeah, man, I think Real Estate is certainly the best for young, for young families out there. If you’re getting started, that’s the way to do it. If you want to make shorter term money unless you’re really good and your skills, strengths, your skills and strengths fit the flippy. I did do, by the way, not to flips for, say, I’ve done two big projects where second stories have been added, but those are family projects. And if we screwed up, it was our own money or my in-laws in this case. Right. So if you’re not very good at it, if you don’t have skills and you’re not a project manager or you’re not trade specific that you have an advantage, if you don’t have an advantage, don’t compete in that because you’re going to you’re not going to do well if you want to do some short term, if they have really had a short term focus and they need to make some money. I would. I did a couple of the I think it’s called wholesaling. I call it assignments. I did some assignments here in Oakville, and I wish I didn’t do them. I had to keep it locked in at three hundred and forty five thousand. And I signed it for 25000 and now that property is worth 950. Right. So even though you get the short term money, I Halton Santa Clause, but I was ecstatic. I saw my wife Oh, look like, Oh man. And now, years later, I’m like, Why did I do that? But whatever. It doesn’t matter. We live and learn, so people really need it, and they don’t have the skills. Look at some wholesaling. If you really do have the skills and you have the time and the expertize. Go ahead, do a flip. Mm hmm. Although I didn’t, I’m a too left hand guy. I don’t do anything. Nothing like the guy shovels. No guys, more wagons, repairmen handing them all. I don’t do any of that. So it’s not my skill set to match your skill set, match your timeline. Hopefully, your audience can. Can get a good a good fit.

Erwin Szeto [00:45:07] CLEC only sold the paper, what if you actually did a flip port and a hundred grand took like three six months off to do it? Put any sweat, sweat equity to make your twenty five grand fifty grand and then it’s now worth nine hundred grand.

Jay Gabrani [00:45:23] You got it. I just flipped the paper. Luckily, yes, but even the ones that Erwin, even the ones where we added a second story, OK, we added a second story and that’s a that’s a major league project, right? So me personally, whenever I’m involved in that type of stuff, again, it’s matching my strengths. I’m always now. If I do it, I’m involved only at the beginning in the planning stages. The thing with the city, the permits, the bylaws, the architect getting the plans set up once the plans are set up in the permits are given, then it’s up to my family, my in-laws. I have like two brothers in law, my father in law. Their poll like they do that. They like that. Doing this stuff beforehand is not their cup of tea. It’s my cup of tea. So I do that. You won’t find me on a construction site with a hard hat or boots like I don’t go if the only reason there is a broken coffee and I do the after sales dealing with the realtor, any negotiating, et cetera. So I’m in stage one and three. I don’t do stage two. So hopefully that also might give some people an idea. Don’t, you know, necessarily have to do all of it, especially if you’re not good at it, because I don’t think you get paid for your time and flips. Is my experience is what I see. I don’t think people get paid for the amount of time they might get paid after, but

Erwin Szeto [00:46:41] they only get paid for their time. And that’s it.

Jay Gabrani [00:46:43] Yeah, there’s no one.

Erwin Szeto [00:46:45] What’s the point?

Jay Gabrani [00:46:47] So yeah, I don’t really. I’m not a big fan of it. I’m a big fan of Real Estate long term, you know, stock market or options trading or bonds and even bonds there six months, one year timeline. They’re shorter term. But I don’t like Real Estate for short term. If you’re looking to make money because so many things can go

Erwin Szeto [00:47:05] wrong, expensive, it didn’t end there as well. But Jay, I want to ask you about what were your numbers like when you were acquiring Oakville property? Like what were you? Were you buying them for them or were you renting them out?

Jay Gabrani [00:47:14] For sure? So basically, we were in the when I first started buying, it was in the low 300s. The highest one I ever bought was four hundred and ten, and that was in 2011. So basically all between the 300000, the almost all started with the three and they were being rented out back then for 17 to 1500. Fantastic. Oh yeah, no, no, no. There is cash, was he? I learned my lesson in Edmonton. I did the whole, Oh, I want to get in because the market’s going up. Screw the negative cash flow. It’s OK if you’re spending 200 negative cash flow, but it’s going up 5000 gives a shit, but that’s not the way it works for me in Edmonton, I learned my lesson and I said, No, no, no, no, no. Whatever project I get in anything by an old, it’s going to make money. Even if it’s 100 hundred bucks a month, it’s going to make money. And the other thing that we’ve always done Erwin is we’ve never taken the cash flow out. We’ve always kept the cash flow in because shit always happens. A repair needs to be done; a vacancy happens. So we always kept three months of three months of rent. So that was like 5000, 5500. And then we got the cash flow accumulate because there was not again, it wasn’t a huge cash flow thing. The equity being like the equity is what paid. It wasn’t all of a sudden I am paying all of my bills with Real Estate cash flow. It wasn’t like that. So, yeah, that’s what I was buying for. This was all 2009, 10 and 11, but a couple of strategies that I was using, I did. All one closes every single property I bought. I was ahead 20 to 40000 from the day I made the paper versus the day I closed three to four months on average.

Erwin Szeto [00:49:00] It was good for that

Jay Gabrani [00:49:02] market, was fantastic in a warm market and it was almost like Clockwork Man. If you were going to make an offer in, like February or March, then you made sure you closed in June. May in Oakville, a lot of places, but may in Oakville. It was golden. All everyday properties going up, properties going up a lot. There were some mortgage rules and some remember the amortization has got extended way back. There was reasons for it, but maybe it was like clockwork. Every single many properties were going up. So I was making one closes. All of our properties were lipstick and rouge. There was all lipstick and rouge before renting. Sometimes I was trying to get the tenants before the renovations because then I would ask the tenant, What do you want us to renovate? What pink color? I’d say, here’s our budget. Here’s the ideas we had. What are you looking at? And then when they I always found when they get to pick, then they tend to stick. That’s the good thing. A lot of my tenants right now. Long term, men like I’ve had a seven year tenant, a five year tenant, a four year tenant, another four year tenant. There’s only one property that, for whatever reason, has seemingly turned three times in the last seven eight years. But other than that, no, I only like renting to families. I don’t like students, don’t want that whole thing again. It’s like we’ve said it so many times it’s not matching. You got to really know yourself and then figure out what you’re going to invest in. I want to pass it. I want to buy and hold. I want it long term. I didn’t want to do any real heavy duty work. I wasn’t qualified for it. I didn’t like it. So it fit. But if you don’t, if it doesn’t fit you, then do something else. Maybe. So hopefully those are some tidbits that people can use. I’m sure you teach that, like nowadays, it’s probably a lot more advanced. But those are strategies which I was using like nine, 10 and 11. And they would they would still work. But yeah, hopefully those couple of strategies might work for your audience.

Erwin Szeto [00:51:09] Why not buy in 2012? Or 2013?

Jay Gabrani [00:51:15] Good question. So basically, I had brought in joint venture money and the last three properties we bought, I remember us, by the way, every property I bought, all of them needed an extension of one sort or another right before closing it. So when I talk about stick handling Erwin, it wasn’t that oh, like, yeah, we have beautiful REIN 150s and beautiful credit scores, and the mortgage approval is just automatic and great. Some of my joint venture partners had issues, too. So you had to kind of move things around and you had to stick handle. So I remember specifically closing three properties in 30 days. All of them needing extensions and just feeling after like, holy shit, like when the third call came and the lawyers like, Yeah, it’s good. You got the keys on the court. Thank goodness it was a lot. And then I was like, OK, let’s kind of mature this. My business plan, by the way, was 25. OK, I got to eight. So your question was 2012. We’re going to tie it back to my wife. Is that in 2011, I told you late in 2011, right around the time we closed those three properties in 30 days. That’s when she fell. That’s what she hurt her back. That’s when she got her painkiller. And then that three years that 2012 13 into 14 man. Again, it’s so much easier. Looking back, I’m sure you’ve heard that right. It’s easier to connect the dots looking backwards. We have 2020 looking backwards when I was in it. I didn’t realize that I was still thinking, OK, I’m going to buy more Real Estate but know when stuff starts happening at home and things are not going well at home. Your focus gets put off of what your ultimate goal is, right? Whereas when things were fine, we were rocking, we were rocking now like we had Edmonton, we had Oakville, we were going and it was good. And she took part, you know, strategy wise, every property was purchased in her name with the end or signs. Why is that? Because there were certain properties that we were buying in our area, sight unseen. We knew we already knew the area. We already knew the numbers. And if we saw a deal come out, Ella was at home. So I’m like, Ella, get in touch with David, our realtor. I would get in touch with David, the realtor Ella. He’s going to come over, sign the papers and you sign it. And we always assigned it to whoever we needed to. But that was the strategy. It was because she was there. She was in the area. And by the way, all of our properties with those long clauses. Out of the six of the eight, six of the eight were all her, and they all hit the market that day when we papered them okay. All of them hit the market. So when I say to you, we knew, like we knew that area. I guess that’s what I’m talking about laser focus. And remember you said, like on the last call, I want a property in Barry. I want a property in kitchen to screw that I. One area? Narrow it down. Know it better than everyone. I only have one contractor, one handyman when everything is needed that I don’t have multiple relation. Why do you want to keep building power teams and all these different cities? Get your fundamentals. O’Leary, that’s going to be great in 25 years. Pick a little a little smaller area of that area. Get to go. I’m sure you have pockets in Hamilton that, you know, like our super, super good, better than everyone else, really. That’s where they should be looking in with your team and saying, Hey, let’s do this. Where’s that? Where’s that area? So, yeah, man, this is not difficult. People make it a lot more complicated analysis paralysis. And it’s not just get your shit together, and let’s start with, you know, start doing something like, don’t complain, don’t sit back, don’t wait. Just get started. It’s an open book test. Twenty five year timeline, you’re good. You won’t lose REIN. So hopefully, especially if your crowds younger. Hopefully, they’ll understand, like I didn’t get started in younger. I wish I started younger with an even better but didn’t happen, didn’t happen then, so hopefully they’ll get started.

Erwin Szeto [00:55:32] You make some really good points. I’ve seen it enough where life happens to my clients, so they get stalled in their investing. And for my own self, for my own best team, based on what I’ve learned since then, my own clients, as soon as I have an approval financing approval in the capital is available by the house and you ought to buy it in 30 days because I don’t want life to get in the way. Definitely because I know it is time. Time is limited. I don’t have so much time to invest in looking for a property. I got to get it quickly because I because I’ve seen it way too often. You had it obviously happened. Big roadblock for several years. In our version of Big Brother is Hamilton, which we don’t have an interest in Ancaster, which is really affluent part of Hamilton. We have the Big Brother. How is this happening? And so for other, like other parts of Hamilton, we don’t have that. So that’s kind of the direction my investing is going. Buying for similar values that you’re talking about a little bit more money, but a lot better rent, but more rent as well. So I can make the numbers work that way and I’m down. I have probably no, because I think I’ll knock it down myself and build towns. Very nice. But that’s like two, five, 10 year horizon. But yeah, some of them land at least two lots, two adjacent lots like 50 footers and then knock them down, build towns. But yeah, that’s the path that I want to go. Have you actually, you’re just you’re just sitting on these, right? You’re not you’re not going to develop them yourself because that’s not your

Jay Gabrani [00:57:12] say I could if I wanted to. Yeah, but let’s try it again to your audience. Exit Strategy Edmonton I made my mistakes and then Oakville. When I assessed it, it was like, What am my possible exit strategies here, joint venture partners that I was bringing in there? Like, Well, what do we do? Like we start and then what? I go, Listen, guys, we’re not even going to talk for three years about this. They were close friends of mine. It wasn’t like, you know, so I said, You got to give it three years. We’re not even going to talk for three years and three years. Down the road, properties were up like a hundred and fifty to two hundred grand. They’re like, Holy shit, should we sell? I’m like, No, now we’re in two thousand like, you know, a little bit later on 2012 13 14. No, there’s no selling like, let’s just let’s just keep it going. And yeah, and so the point I was making was the exit strategy. I knew that after the three years I could keep renting it out, I could sell it. I could smash it right. Because I know, I know all the builders in the area. Well, after all these years, again, focus like you, just the relationships you have symbiotic. It’s a builders stone mill or whoever works in this area and builds dozens of houses every year. Then you get to know them, right? So the answer is I. I had had architect the house that I ended up selling. I had architect plans done for it. I was going to smash it. And that was right in 2016, OK? But couple of years after my wife had passed, we were going to. I was going to smash it. I paid the architect. I don’t think the plans are here, but basically we had plans for a thirty two hundred square foot house. And the market just started skyrocketing even more. I was going to make more money selling it, as is as a bungalow,

Erwin Szeto [00:58:56] as a teardown,

Jay Gabrani [00:58:57] then going through the entire hassle and

Erwin Szeto [00:58:59] lots of risk in that,

Jay Gabrani [00:59:01] oh, there’s a big risk in that, right? So nowadays you’re talking about it. And by the way, right here within, if we just drew a circle from where I’m sitting and we drove about five minutes in either direction, there will literally be about 40 to 50 projects going on today. All these guys plan it. But see now what’s happening, though, is when before the foreign buyers tax came in, the two million plus properties were flying off the shelf flying. Now you’re starting to see or I’m starting to see a lot more of them listed. They’re taking a lot longer to sell, which will compress downward on the bungalows, right? So it’s one of those things where you give yourself multiple exit strategies. Again, lowers I’m all about how do I invest without taking lots of risk? Yeah, a lot of it is the work we do beforehand, moving our numbers. But if you have a longer timeline and you know what you’re investing in, your risk is much, much, much lower. So give yourself multiple exit strategies in order to reduce your risk. So the answer is I may very well still build one, and I think that what it would be is it would be a gen house. But Oak Hill is very, very strict right now. Auckland’s basement suite bylaws are only you’re only allowed 700 square foot. Yeah, it’s small. So and. This is like in three thousand five hundred square foot homes, you’re only allowed 700 four feet, so the same architect that are used here in, I said, Listen, jurors, I want to basically design a multi-chain house where my kids and I can live there. My parents ultimately can live there. And even when my kids get a little older. Remember, I said, You have to. You have to watch for your kids housing, not their education. I want to have it so that there’s three separate livable units in one big house and I have three kids in that way. If they ever need it, no problem here. I know because also, or all GTA can’t get enough of the connection, but how are they going to afford a house unless the Bank of Dad helps them out? It’s not going to happen

Erwin Szeto [01:01:02] or mom or lottery. My government, though

Jay Gabrani [01:01:07] not for good government, for getting it over. I never asked government to rely on government or anything like ever like that. I find government is a horrible allocator of resources. So elections poorly. You won’t like you won’t see one single comment from me about politics on Facebook. Just doesn’t matter, I’m apolitical in terms of I’m aware of what’s going on. My whole thing is I don’t care who is elected, although I vote, but whoever gets elected, once that decision is made, I no longer have any control over it. Then I just go with the flow. Whatever rules are going to come out. I adjust accordingly. I don’t get pissed off that my guy or girl didn’t win or block street that stuff. Manly politics, people. I see waste an enormous amount of time on it. It does not have as much value as you’re giving it. So, yeah, I kind of dislike politics, but you have to be aware you do have me as a business guy and you have to know what’s going on as a real estate investor. Yeah. So, yeah.

Erwin Szeto [01:02:12] Jay, it’s been a slice taken. It was two hours of your time. I know the listeners didn’t get all the full two hours, but

Jay Gabrani [01:02:22] no problem, man. It’s all good. I think that, yeah, I want to make sure that even if it is a little long, maybe you cut it up into the third part. I don’t really know.

Erwin Szeto [01:02:32] I’m not sure what I’ll do.

Jay Gabrani [01:02:34] Or maybe there’s, you know, the first part of the conversation where you were following whatever you might want to just cut that and make it its own episode and

Erwin Szeto [01:02:45] everything we’re doing.

Jay Gabrani [01:02:47] That’s why if you want to cut that and just say, Hey, for specifically, this is not a Real Estate episode. This is like someone dealing with some depression or addictions or you know them, maybe you want to listen to this one and then maybe the people who want Real Estate, you can give them maybe the second hour right up to you, but if it helps them, that’d be great.

Erwin Szeto [01:03:06] Yeah, because we’re at over an hour 40 now. So you hear the divide this up somehow.

Jay Gabrani [01:03:11] Yeah, it’s yeah, it’s tough. The longer than longer than 60 Minutes. It’s tough for people, right? But I listen on, I listen on double speed, so I get two podcasts saying pretty quick, right videos. I watch on Dubeau speed audible the way I go triple speed. So I consume a lot of information that way when I see EMS, when I’m sitting around and it’s passive and I am not doing what, I’m still doing a lot of learning. I knew what an enormous amount of learning and reading those newsletters and everything. I talk about Iceman probably two to three hours a day, reading easily financial newsletters or a book or listening to its information, right? I value growth as well. I value genuineness and I value growth through both of my top five. And if I’m not growing, if I’m not learning something, oh man, then I don’t feel very good about things, even if it’s something I’m not going to use or I might use down the road like some marketing thing. I still like learning it. I still want to learn, and I still want to absorb myself because if it gives me another skill that I can use. Fantastic. So, yeah, man, I love doing these type of things where it’s said we get to, we get to talk. It’s not an it’s not a rushed conversation or lots of people being around or whatever. So how do you want to do it is great. And in terms of the like any future event or whatever? Yeah, let me know when we get to talk about

Erwin Szeto [01:04:40] every calendar meeting

Jay Gabrani [01:04:42] calendar,

Erwin Szeto [01:04:44] I think any of speaker for September and November. And actually, I set the record. Are you going to go to the Greater Toronto Hamilton area? Are you interested in earning extra income in your sleep without getting calls from tenants or unplugging toilets? And please join us live and in person at the Halton Real Estate Investors Group meetings at the prestigious Sheridan College in Oakville, Ontario. Our meetings are committed to postseason and novice investors to share and educate the fundamentals and truths about real estate investing, so you too can earn seven figure net worth. Like our guests and clients on this show, how great would it be to be financially free to take more time off a family, retire earlier and more comfortably, or even support your favorite charity? If that’s of interest to you, think it yourself on the invite list at W WW Dot Alton REI Dossier Slash Sign up The host of the meeting is Yours Truly Erwin Szeto, a four time winner of the real estate agent of the year to investors for 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018. Results are not guaranteed, but our investor clients with us since 2012 are earning over 400 percent returns on cash flowing properties, so contract. So as soon as you can be due to Ontario Fire Code regulations, we can only have so many attendees and we have wait listed in the past. So do not wait to register at W WW Dot Halton REI Okay slash signup and hope to see you there soon. Even.

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