Stefan Aarnio: How to Flip Houses for Fun and Profit WITHOUT Using Your Own Cash

Stefan Aarnio How to Flip Houses for Fun and Profit WITHOUT Using Your Own Cash
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Table of Contents - Stefan Aarnio: How to Flip Houses for Fun and Profit WITHOUT Using Your Own Cash

Podcast Transcription

Dave Debeau [00:00:09] Hey there, everyone, is Dave Debeau with another episode of the Property Profits Real Estate podcast. And today I've got my good friend Stefan Ardeo on the call. How are you doing today, Stefan?

Stefan Aarnio [00:00:20] Magical day. Thanks for having me.

Dave Debeau [00:00:22] My pleasure. So if you haven't heard of or met Stefan before, he is definitely a phenomenal real estate investor. He's an award winning investor. Very, very successful. They started from scratch, definitely did not have the silver spoon in his mouth and made a lot of mistakes along the way, which I'm sure we'll hear a few of those, as most of us do, but got very, very, very good at flipping houses primarily in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Got so good at that. He won awards about that. He started teaching, training and mentoring and coaching people about that. He has written many books and audio books. I've got several of them on my bookshelf right now. And overall, just a one of the sharpest young guys that I know. So, Steven, welcome to the call. Glad to have you on here. And today, we're going to be talking about one of your areas of specialty which is raising capital.

Stefan Aarnio [00:01:16] Well, thank you for having me do that. Intro was phenomenal. I'm going to have to send you the check in the mail because that was a really great intro.

Dave Debeau [00:01:23] Well, it's all all all from the heart, that's for sure. So, Stephanie, let's take us back here. At the time that we're recording this, you are a total of thirty two years old. So you're as what I affectionately call a young punk because I ain't anymore. But you've been doing this for quite a while. In fact, I think when we first met, if I'm not mistaken, you were like 18 or 19 years old, give or take, just getting started in real estate investing, just kind of learning about all these kind of things. So walk us through that progression.

Stefan Aarnio [00:01:53] Well, I always say my real estate career day started when I was 16. I wanted to be a rock star. I wanted to be rich and famous. And of course, when you're a kid, you know, 16 years old, all you still call me a kid. But if you're 16 and kid, you think that the way to get rich and famous is, you know, what you see on TV. So rock stars, actors, actresses, that kind of thing. And so I want to be rich. I want to be famous. I want to be a rock star. And I went to music school. My mother, of course, is a teacher and said, if you want to be a musician, you need to go to music school and learn to get a degree because, you know, of course, a degree saves your life. You're going to be financially secure somehow from that degree, which doesn't make any sense anymore. Life will be great happily ever after if you got a degree. So my mother convinced me to get a degree and I went to the University of Manitoba. I dropped out of the music school. I dropped out of the business school. I dropped out of computer science. And finally I said, how do I get out of here? Though dropping on, the lady said, take two English classes. You can have an English degree. So I took to poetry classes, got an English degree with a minor in music. And then I was graduating and I realized there's no jobs for me. I was twenty two years old, is about twenty eight English degree was was useless back then. Mark Cuban, the billionaire, says today an English degree is one of the best degrees to have because there's so much content being written nowadays. But back in two thousand eight, there is no content. Right. So in two thousand eight here I am graduating and the only job is for me, Dave was ten dollars an hour call center jobs and middle of the night. So I had a ten dollar an hour call center job. I was making more money than that as painting houses in the summer. So I postgrad depression I was depressed about. I'd spent my whole life being educated so that I can make ten bucks an hour and a call center in the middle of the night. Horrible, horrible situation, especially considering you've been preparing for twenty two years for this. And I read a book called Richard Ford and it said, Hey, anybody can be rich. You don't have to be a rock star, you don't have to be rich, you don't have to be famous. All you have to do is invest in real estate, invest in real estate and own a business. You can be rich. And so that got me excited again. And I started taking seminars. I started taking classes. That's how I ran into you on the seminar circuit. I would probably elberta at the time. And that's where things got started. You know, discovering Robert Kiyosaki and Rich dad dad was like rediscovering rock and roll for it changed my life. And at twenty two I started real estate with twelve hundred bucks. I was a broke guitar teacher making twelve or a thousand dollars a month, ten grand a year or so. And by the time I was twenty eight and a half, became a self-made millionaire and was rich at International Hall of Fame at thirty two. You know this year. Oh gosh, I'm inquiring about ten million dollars of real estate to acquire and keep this year. You know, at age thirty two I send my mother checks every month. I support my mother, my father who is negative about me getting in. This business works for me now. So, you know, you go through all this time and things change over time and written five books now and, you know, just keep on punching every day. That's what I do.

Dave Debeau [00:04:50] You definitely do. You're definitely respect the grind as as you say, that's for sure, right?

Stefan Aarnio [00:04:56] Yeah, I respect the grind. That's the brand

Dave Debeau [00:04:58] you're getting into buying old and stuff. But your claim to fame or what a lot of people know you for is doing flips. So talk to us a little bit about the number of transactions you've. Over the years, you know, when you're really focusing on this and in Winnipeg, what kind of volume or doing per year, it starts to give us the idea of that.

Stefan Aarnio [00:05:17] So I have a very active company. My team right now does about a deal. A week in Winnipeg, we get the contract signed up, 40 to 60 cents on the dollar distressed property. And we're moving a contract a week ago to aquisition guys in my office and we're moving a contract a week. That's the pace over the years. Probably a couple hundred transactions for sure. I know what my lawyer's table last time we checked, it was like one hundred and twenty hundred and thirty closings as we'd done or something at that one table. It's probably up to two hundred. I did six closings two weeks ago at his table. So every week I'm seeing my lawyer. We're closing something every week. Yeah. I mean buying, fixing, selling lots of homes with none of my own money. And I've never really used my own money, Dave, because I started out not having any money. And it's interesting having the no money mentality, because when you get money, like I have money now, I still don't want to use it. So, you know, you continue the no money down. I was just mentioning to you, I'm working on a deal right now. A million dollar purchase, no money down, vendor financing with a one point two million dollar construction loan, no money down again. And then that building is worth about five. What, it's five million was fixed up and twenty two thousand cash flow. And that comes from no money down, no money down, no money down. You just get into this mentality where you have to do everything. No money down. You don't want to pay for it if you can get it.

Dave Debeau [00:06:43] Yeah. Get somebody else to start off with twelve hundred bucks. So you start off with investing partners from your very first deal, is that correct?

Stefan Aarnio [00:06:50] Yeah, so, you know, at the beginning, I went out and went to a cash flow night with five other guys and this was after an event you were out? Actually, I met five strangers and we played the casual game. We did two fake deals on the board. And the third deal, we bought a real house and we each put twelve hundred bucks down. I ended up holding the mortgage. This was in November of two thousand nine. And that's the stupidest thing you can do, is hold the mortgage for six Joes that you don't know if. But I'm holding

Dave Debeau [00:07:19] a board game

Stefan Aarnio [00:07:21] at a board game. I know. So I'm holding the mortgage. And, you know, the deal went on at the beginning and then the tenant smashed it up and stopped paying. And I ended up having to raise some money and buy everybody out because, of course, you know, when you're in it for twelve hundred bucks, nobody cares about the property. Very much so a mortgage.

Dave Debeau [00:07:39] So you have to care.

Stefan Aarnio [00:07:39] So I was on the I was on the mortgage for like one hundred and four thousand or something and everybody else is in for twelve hundred bucks. So I didn't negotiate very well. I didn't know what I was doing. I started raising money from friends and family at the beginning and then I got better at what I did and started having a pipeline of deals. And I always say, I started my career, I did one deal, my first year, one deal, my second year, third year, I did 12 deals because I hired a coach. So I hired a real estate coach and I did 12 deals. The next started twenty four deals and did 30 deals. And this year. Oh my gosh. 50 plus deals this year. And that comes from investing in a coach. Coaching is near and dear to my heart because I really sucked before I had somebody on me every week tuning me up. I really couldn't figure it out. I didn't have the mentality. And when I got the coach, I went from raising ten grand and 20 grand from mom and pop mailmen and teachers and switched to accredited investors and rich people. That's a big difference. And nowadays I used to have eighteen investors I raise from I only work with one or two very rich guys. In fact, one guy I work with, he's an investment fund and the other guy I work with I've heard is one hundred and forty million dollars from the sale of his company. So those are two major investors I work with today and I don't have to go out for a million lunches and a million dinners anymore with a million investors for 10 or 20 grand apiece because I made the leap into the bigger guys to the bigger money.

Dave Debeau [00:09:09] Well, let's talk a little bit about that. So rewind to when you first were dealing with those 18 different investors and little dribs and drabs here and there. What which I don't recommend people do. Right, because I don't know if your experience was that for some of those people, the ten grand they invested with you was the only ten grand they had and they became complete pains in the butt.

Stefan Aarnio [00:09:35] Yeah, well, you know what the when when you're at the beginning or at the beginning, and if you ever go to the grocery store and you see a homeless man outside picking cigarette butts out of the garbage to make himself a cigarette, that's you at the beginning. You're picking up the cigarette butts, anything you can find. But when you get better, you don't have to take that anymore. So at the beginning, take what you can get. But, you know, if you do start with that, work as hard as you can to get out of that and get into something better, because you can't run a business on a bunch of a bunch of pikas, a bunch of part time people, a lot of those ten thousand are investors. If something goes wrong at all, they're so scared that they're out. So, you know, you can if you have a deal go bad or something happens, they're losing their shirts or losing their brain. They can't handle it with the bigger guys. If they lose money, they're like, oh, yeah, I've lost lots of money before. OK, keep going. Right. It's a different mentality with business people, real business people versus, you know, teachers and nurses and even dentists and doctors are horrible investors. And I don't recommend using them because as soon as there's a one percent problem, like a one percent loss, a lot of them don't have the stomach or the balls for realistic.

Dave Debeau [00:10:44] Talk to me about that. I understand what time you're farting around doing your own thing for the first couple of years. You've got a mentor you've got to coach. It helped you get your head in the right game. How did you transition from working with those mom and pop, ten thousand, twenty thousand investors to getting millionaires to pay any attention to it?

Stefan Aarnio [00:11:07] The biggest thing is a mindset shift. You have to have a mindset shift. It's just like, you know, right now I'm doing a couple multimillion dollar deals. Well, it's a mindset shift. You just go, OK, I'll just add a zero to the end of this. And now we're doing a bigger deal. So it's a mindset shift. You say, OK, well, you know, I want to start targeting these better investors. I'm going to start talking to these guys. I start looking for these guys. And the fact of the matter is, everybody likes making money, no matter how rich or poor you are, everybody's is. You hear about ways to make money. And the question is just do these people think that you can operate? And I remember when I got the money with my first multimillionaire investors, I think these guys had I don't know how much money they had, but my guess is between it was two to 10 million liquid. And I remember working with them and they said, you know, it's stuff that I get approached all the time for deals. I'm choosing to work with you because I know you can do 20 of these in a year. And I want to deal with somebody who can really deploy my money. And I know you're the guy, you got the passion, you've got the drive. And these guys were entrepreneurs who sold a manufacturing company, cashed out. And, you know, they were younger guys. Forty three and fifty three, not super old. So they're still aggressive. And we went out and did a ton of houses, man, just a ton of houses. And then I also had my smaller portfolio. I was also doing houses with the smaller portfolio and I would play those two groups of investors off each other because investors have emotions. Right? So sometimes these guys are scared of these guys are scared. So I'd have to take the deals to the two camps and I go back and forth.

Dave Debeau [00:12:34] Nice, nice. So just out of curiosity, how the hell did you get the attention of the big fish? How did you find out who they were, where they were? You know, what is what does that look like?

Stefan Aarnio [00:12:48] Well, in my book, Money People Deal, which I know. I know you have to go on in

Dave Debeau [00:12:52] depth right now. Some book. Yep.

Stefan Aarnio [00:12:54] Thank you. Yeah. And Money People Deal wrote at twenty thirteen. I talk about the Sayf model and the S model is where you start working with some small investors and they refer you to rich people. They are your first little cigaret butt investor base is going to refer you to the rich people because you know, if you're broke, you probably don't know very many rich people. And believe me, I was broke. I was living at my mom's house. I remember I was doing my meetings at the Starbucks behind my mom's house. So I put on a suit, leave mom's house, go to my meetings at Starbucks, and then I come back to mom's. I was I had three suits in the closet and an Apple computer and a car and a bag of checks. And that's how I rolled man. And I had a dozen properties when I moved out of Mom's house. So I did OK with having that kind of set up in that kind of base. You just do whatever it takes to make this kind of thing happen. And being broke, being a broke kid, obviously, my friends, my kids friends aren't coming through. You have to get a referral to somebody with money and ultimately everybody knows money. So that method is called the stuff model. It's inside my book, Money People Deal. And if you go to money, people deal. Dotcom, you can get a copy.

Dave Debeau [00:14:03] I like that and ultimately everyone knows money.

Stefan Aarnio [00:14:07] Oh, David, it's amazing, and we do something called the Capital 150 list. I have a capital raising class and we make people do the capital 150 last year, 150 people, you know, and we have a math formula. You apply to it and everybody has over a million dollars accessible to them, especially if a doctor and a dentist, you know, we do this formula to take their age minus 20 years because of their earning years. And let's say they have five thousand network for every earning year. So let's say the 60 year old doctor. So he's 60, minus 20. So he's got 40 earning years times five thousand. He should have at least two hundred grand. And then you can multiply it by three because he's a professional. So that means he should have six hundred grand liquid. Your six year old doctor should have six hundred grand. And then does he own a home. He owns a home. Add another 50 grand. A couple other adjustments you make and that list you make, you have millions and millions. Some people have 20 million, 80 million on their list. If they saw the business, multiply it by 10, if that doctor sold the business instead of six hundred grand, now suddenly he would have, what is that, six million now because he sold the business. So you start doing the math and you can estimate pretty quickly and pretty accurately how much money do people have and usually comes from people 45 to 60, 60 or so. Sixty five. Sixty five people start getting conservative right. About forty five to sixty. And based on their profession, based on are they a business owner based on how they sold a business that gives you all the multipliers to figure out how much money should this guy have in his net worth or liquid assets.

Dave Debeau [00:15:42] Smart thing. What what's your take on how to present your investment opportunity to potential?

Stefan Aarnio [00:15:51] Well, I have a binder and I teach people, hey, man, make this big binder. It's just like going to a bank for a loan. You want to make a big binder. And I think I have a twelve tab binder. Have people do. I haven't done a binder myself in a long time. I have my team do it for me, my accounting team does it. So I haven't actually made the binder in several years, but we get everything in a binder. You've got your credit score in there, you've got the deal, you've got the numbers. And when you put everything together in a binder and it's all tied up that deals ready to go, it's really easy to sell because it's there with a bow on it and there's no further work. It's interesting with that commercial deal I was talking about, the warehouse deal I've been negotiating with these vendors for. Oh my God, since March. So we've been going back and forth for some time. And they said I said, well, I can raise the money to fix this place up. No big deal. And they go, oh, well, do you have investors ready to go? I said, no, no, no, I need the deal. I need a contract with you tied up before I bring it or I shop it. I'm not shopping a deal without a contract. That's that's retarded. Like I will. I'll get somebody circumventing me or I'll I'll end up with problems. So right now, with that deal we've actually created, I've already kind of preliminary created a binder and have all the information. I've already been sending it out to some banks and actually have a term sheet now from a real bank to do all the construction. And now what I need last thing I need on this deal is I need to go get that contract signed with the vendors at the price in terms we agreed to. Yeah, but it's it's really putting the package together, packaging the deal. And then when you have a great package, usually people buy great packages, you go, wow, this is you've got it. This is 40 to 60 cents. I can see it's a deal. It makes sense to me. Let's do it.

Dave Debeau [00:17:35] Talk to me a little bit, especially when you're focusing on doing your flips. And let's not look at your credit investors. So the multimillion guys, million dollar guys are just scrambling to cash the kind of give you the back in the days when you were doing the the smaller investors, which is where a lot of people who are watching or listening to this are going to be starting. How would you structure your flip deals? So that made sense for everybody.

Stefan Aarnio [00:18:00] So I remember my first flip. I did I did a lease option on the purchase, so I never even purchased those. At least it was an option to buy. And then my friend came over and he pulled all the money off his MBNA credit card, gave me a backpack of cash. So it was a backpack of cash and a lease option. So that was no money down as it gets.

Dave Debeau [00:18:21] OK, that's not typical. So once you got it, once you kind of got it rolling. What's so?

Stefan Aarnio [00:18:26] So after that, after the backpack of cash and the lease option, then we started doing hard money. So I do hard money at seventy five or 80 percent of the purchase. And then I'd raise the equity and I'd raised the construction money that was like the second way. And then after that I realized that although my investors are making a wacko out of money because the leverage was so high, they're making 30, 40, 50 percent arlys per deal, it was retarded. The money they were making was so good after that because they had the leverage of the hard money and then their equity piece was giving them fifty fifty. They were literally making thirty five percent a deal, so people are making 70, 80 percent annual, it was the most ridiculous return. And then I stopped that because I realized that I could wipe them out. If the deal went bad, their equity would be wiped out in two minutes. So I switched it to all cash because I had enough investors. So he started buying all cash and stock up a whole bunch of investors. And we buy all cash. And they made they still made eight to 15 percent a year, which is still really good with no risk of downside. And then after that, I went into the rich people game and we just had one rich guy or two rich guys per deal.

Dave Debeau [00:19:42] So let's go back to the middle one where you're saying pulling up a group of whatever X number of investors you'd have all the money in trust or in an account or how were they secured by anything or was it basically a promissory note?

Stefan Aarnio [00:19:58] So the way that we did it was a couple of different ways. And the way that your investors want to be secured depends on them. Like every investor, they always have token things they want, especially they let them have a lawyer. And the lawyer demands some token things, like a declaration of trust or whatever. What we had in the joint venture agreement is we would have they can secure, with a caveat, Lenar mortgage on the title. So technically it's not a security. Technically, it's you know, you've given some money up your secured to this real estate asset. I guess technically it's kind of like a loan and that's how we secured it onto the assets. So there's no shares being issued. It's simply here's some money. Here's a joint venture agreement. And we've secured with the caveat, Lenar mortgage interest in the property.

Dave Debeau [00:20:45] So you do that for them or you left that option for them to do themselves that they wanted to secure

Stefan Aarnio [00:20:50] it on the you know, at the really small ones, I'd say, hey, go down the land titles. It's forty bucks. You can do it. All those small guys are friends and family. So it's, you know, really close to you. With the bigger guys, they would have their lawyer do it and the lawyers would move the money around. So, you know, it's it's a bit of a Wild West because you're so small, like when you're taking ten grand from a guy and you know each other really well and you've been to each other's birthdays and weddings and stuff. There's not a whole lot of securing going on when it's your two buddies hanging out, drinking beers. They can go secure any time at land titles, but you don't want to pay nine hundred bucks in lawyer fees to secure ten grand. That's a big loss, right? That's like a nine, ten percent loss. Instantly, you'll never make it back. You'll never be able to make money because the admin fees are bigger than the money you're making

Dave Debeau [00:21:41] exactly that excess. So speaking up, when you were at that stage in the beginning and the middle stage, what did you do to stay on the good side of the Securities Commission? Because I know they're not all that friendly securities.

Stefan Aarnio [00:21:55] They just hate everybody. Well, they don't want anybody who's not, you know, investors group or Sunlife or really big with A,

Dave Debeau [00:22:02] B, C, RBC or any of those.

Stefan Aarnio [00:22:04] If you're not a major bank or a big financial institution, they don't love you. So, so. So the way that I play with securities is friends and family is one exemption. And when you start your friends and family, I mean, it's you and your buddies and you know each other and that's the way it works. And then the other exemption I play with is one hundred and fifty grand minimum, which usually keeps securities pretty happy. So another reason to go with bigger investors and then the third one is accredited investors. So I would either play with friends and family with a joint venture agreement, or I'd play with bigger investors in a boutique accredited investor fashion. And that's that's what it was. It's a boutique accredited investor shop. We're playing with a couple of rich guys. It's boutique. They have their own lawyers, they have their own accountants. They don't need the protection of the government because they have their own protection through their professionals. Yeah. And so securities your securities doesn't really bother me much. So they didn't bother me much because I'm not advertising for money. Right. I'm not I'm not out there saying, hey, give me money general public and I'm smart enough to not market to the general public, you know, ended up with people funding my stuff just from building a brand and educating people. I had people approaching me all the time. I haven't had to raise investors for a long time because I work with a couple of rich guys. And it's amazing, actually. I got a call every now and then from one of the guys who runs a fund and he's begging to give me money. He was here. I got 60 grand. Can't take it. I'm like, no, I don't want your 60 grand. So we start negotiating and he ends up giving me 60 grand. And I don't I got to find a place to put this

Dave Debeau [00:23:41] becomes a pain in the butt for you, right? Because it is things it does investors. Now, you've got this small thing.

Stefan Aarnio [00:23:48] Well, I was stressed out the other day because, you know, I got a call from my friend who has this fund and he says, I got 60 grand. I said, well, I don't want that. And we negotiated negotiate. And finally I got some terms and I said, OK, fine, I'll take your terms. But then I said. I said to my mother, I said, I don't even have a deal for this, I don't have a deal for this, like I don't even know where to put this money. And the question is, where do you deploy this money to actually beat the cost of the money so that

Dave Debeau [00:24:15] you can do something you might want to give him his money back. Good morning.

Stefan Aarnio [00:24:19] Yeah, that's that's another option. I mean, I've got so many business interests nowadays with online marketing and the deals and we're going storage and e-commerce and all these things. I'm sure I can find a home for it

Dave Debeau [00:24:32] because it's an easy question for you, because you work with a lot of people in this in the situation. But let's see if we took it all the way from you right now. All you had left was your knowledge. You lost all your properties, all your money, all your all your contacts, even. OK, so starting from scratch, what would you do? What would be your plan of action to raise, let's say, five hundred thousand dollars in the next? 90 to 120 days, three to four months. What would you what would you do to make that happen? Starting from scratch? You've got your knowledge.

Stefan Aarnio [00:25:05] Oh, so my knowledge. Well, that's not very hard. Know if you have your knowledge. You just got to find some rich people and. Well, you got to get a deal and find some rich people and put them in that. But I was going to say, you know, if you lost everything or didn't have anything, I'd probably go into a sales job. I think I think the one thing that people miss the most and I coach people all the time who want to be full time investors or entrepreneurs. And what people are always missing, Dave, is they go from their corporate job or the government or whatever, and they try to be a full time real estate investor and they miss that sales job transition. And so for some reason, everything evaporated on me and I needed to live. I'd probably get a sales job of some kind and then, well, having that sales job, because that's going to be your highest income thing, I would start putting a deal together and I would go and try to find the richest people I actually know. It's a little bit of a trick here. So you can call up the hard money lenders in your area and go meet them and negotiate with them one on one and they will make custom deals. These guys all have big pots of money and they're sitting on them and they're just rich guys that have a company called Hard Money Lending. And you can go sit down with them for lunch and negotiate a custom deal and they'll do custom deals all the time. So there's a whole bunch of rich guys who can talk to you right away to start calling the hard money lenders direct.

Dave Debeau [00:26:26] Well, that's an awesome piece of advice. And, you know, you hear a lot about hard money lenders, especially in the States. What do you do to find hard money lenders here

Stefan Aarnio [00:26:36] to type it into Google? I mean, go to go on Google. And I'm going to do right now, I'm going to go on Google while we're talking, but they've been hard money lenders. Winnipeg, OK, so hard money lenders, Winnipeg, where I'm sitting. So right here, we got four ads at the top. So there's four companies as ads. Then we got Kajiji has a whole bunch of ads, people who want to give you hard money. And then we've got one, two, three, four. We got lenders, dude, right here at the bottom. How many how many results do we have? Oh, five hundred and seventy four thousand results in zero point six two seconds. So there's five hundred and seventy four thousand people wanting to give me money. Like don't tell me it's hard getting money Dave. I mean do you call every single one of these guys and start negotiating a deal and. Well American hard money they'll give you the purchase and the rentals. Right. That's the American standard. As long as it's under a certain LTV when it's finished. Canadians, they don't do that. But you can negotiate it. You can negotiate it. You can negotiate any custom deal. And that's why you have to learn and negotiate. Because like none of these deals, Dave, the real estate deals are the money is ever just no one just opens their legs and presented to you and says, please take my money now, like like please marry my beautiful daughter. Like, it doesn't just work like that. You have to negotiate for that. Like, you don't just walk down the road and there's just a beautiful woman there and you just marry her like it doesn't work like that. You have to negotiate. You have to go on a date.

Dave Debeau [00:28:12] Or if it does, you're in for a hell of a lot of trouble, let's put it that.

Stefan Aarnio [00:28:15] Well, I was going to say, yeah, that's like you have some Russian gangsters break your knees and you're you're going to have some real problems if you fall for one of those scams.

Dave Debeau [00:28:24] Well, yeah, definitely. So I just I typed in hard money lenders. DC Comics where I live is kind of small, but yeah, there's a swag of there's a swag of them. Hey, I think you're I think your website flipping, flipping for profit. Thirty eight percent. These are you

Stefan Aarnio [00:28:40] know, it's not me. He came up here on my search to

Dave Debeau [00:28:44] pay private guys is all sorts of stuff coming up here. So. So there's lots of lots of lots of options. Fantastic. I appreciate it and I look forward to interviewing you again on the podcast in the future because you've got such a wealth of knowledge. And the next one, we'll talk about his nose dove into how you find your deals, because what people might not have picked up from this call is the fact that if you're doing a transaction a week. Again, Winnipeg's a good sized town, but it's not huge, right?

Stefan Aarnio [00:29:18] Eight hundred thousand people, so it's not very big lake compared to like Chicago or Dallas or

Dave Debeau [00:29:24] Toronto or anywhere

Stefan Aarnio [00:29:26] Tyrannosaurus Rex. Yeah, yeah.

Dave Debeau [00:29:28] So if you're on that volume of deals in Winnipeg, you've definitely got a dialed in on how to find the deals. So if you're up for it, sometime in the not too distant future will jump back on and talk about finding deals and buddy motivated sellers because that's something that everybody's always interested in.

Stefan Aarnio [00:29:46] Awesome David. Do that. And really, I think it's all about the deal. If you can get the deal, the money's always there.

Dave Debeau [00:29:53] There you go. So if people want to find out about about you and I highly recommend they get a copy of your book Money People Deal, what's the best place to do that?

Stefan Aarnio [00:30:03] Let me go to Stefan Aarnio or Darkon STF and double a R and I once again STF and double A R and I o the awesome.

Dave Debeau [00:30:16] Sounds good, but thanks a lot. Talk to you soon. Thank you Dave. Well, thanks very much for checking out the Property Profits podcast. And if you like what we're doing here, please head on over to iTunes, subscribe read us and leave us the review. He very much appreciated. And if you're looking to create a regular flow of inbound investor inquiries about your real estate deals, then I invite you to attend one of my upcoming live online demonstrations. And you can check that out at Investor Attraction Demo Dotcom. Take care.

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