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Podcast Transcription

Sandy Mackay [00:14:43] Breakthrough Real Estate Investing Podcast, Episode 81.

Rob Break [00:14:48] Hello, and welcome to the Breakthrough Real Estate Investing podcast. We put this show together to inspire you and help you break through to the life that you want to live through the power of real estate investing. My name is Rob Break. Here with me again is Sandy Mackay.

Sandy Mackay [00:15:06] How are you doing Rob.

Rob Break [00:15:09] Good man. Really good. How are you?

Sandy Mackay [00:15:11] Awesome. Yeah, fantastic. So I think today we’re going to look a little different as we get ready for our interview. That’s coming up later. We kind of did a mix of this video and the next one. So if you’re watching, you’re going to see. See a little different background and a little different clothing and everything for us, so.

Rob Break [00:15:29] Yeah, that’s right. I think I was I was in this room, right? I’m pretty sure of this,

Sandy Mackay [00:15:33] but mostly it’s all good. Yeah, they’ll understand. So what do we need them to do, first of all, before we get to the interview?

Rob Break [00:15:41] I think everyone should obviously go over to break through every podcast dossier. There you can see all of the episodes. So I’ve had some people reaching out to me recently saying the about, I guess, iTunes only stores the last 50 episodes or something like that. And so as we continue, they’re dropping them off. So if you want to see some of their earlier episodes or hear some of the earlier episodes, you will have to go to break through I podcast, I’d say a better reason to go there. You can now

Sandy Mackay [00:16:14] and they can jump on and grab our for your part, we got the ultimate strategy for building wealth and real estate. They get that for free. Get on our email list at the same time and hear about some of the updates we’re doing and really get a little better at sending out these episodes every week, every now and biweekly, I guess, as we do them to our network just to get updated and reminded once the new episode comes out.

Rob Break [00:16:37] Mm hmm. Yeah, we actually made a plan for that this time and followed through with it. So it’s got

Sandy Mackay [00:16:43] five years better late than never. So five years of the show, if you can believe that we’re actually right around five years at this point as we’re being recording this. So that’s pretty cool.

Rob Break [00:16:53] You’re right. We are. And what else? So. Oh, you know what? We’ve got the Facebook page up and running now, too. So that’s exciting. Awesome.

Sandy Mackay [00:17:05] Yeah. Well, we will be doing a little better job of marketing this now and after five years, you know, there’s a bit of competition out there. You’ve got to maybe improve our systems a bit with this stuff. So for five years, it’s been like we’ve been the only ones out there, but we’re still the best.

Rob Break [00:17:21] Yeah, you know what? Our listenership has been super organic. It’s just sort of word of mouth, you know, one person tells another person about it. So hopefully now we’ll get out. There’s some new people who are just dying to hear all of these interesting guests and all of their info that they have to share. So. Mm. Today we have the mothers of real estate, and they have a new course that they are offering and it’s fantastic. I actually went through it myself not too long ago, and we’re going to be teaming up with them as far as getting it out there for people to hear about. So we but you know, this was they mentioned it in there, but this was an interview more based on their knowledge and what they can share. So each of them has a different strategy that they use. And I found the interview really interesting and motivating, really, because they like they all have families, lots of kids and they’re still able to plow forward and push forward and really make this investing thing work as mothers and as women. You know, there’s not as many women real estate investors out there, so it’s good to hear from them now.

Sandy Mackay [00:18:39] They’re getting a lot of stuff done, and I’m not sure if we’re sharing because we didn’t have the link ready yet. But in the show, they’re going to talk about, of course, a little bit and they’re going to share. We’re going to share with you the link to get a coupon to get a good chunk of money off that course. So I think we can share the link now going on.

Rob Break [00:18:57] Yeah, I think we got it here somewhere it is. Breakthrough Aria podcast dot com forward slash more so. Yeah. Mallari Mothers of real estate. Yeah. So you will hear you’ll hear about the course and if you’re interested, go over there, and check it out. And if you enter coupon code breakthrough, then you will get 100 bucks off the purchase price. So not too bad, right?

Sandy Mackay [00:19:21] Awesome. That’s a great question. And they’ll share a little more about it and I can pump it up too hard in this episode. We’re going to talk, you know, breaks, evaluate everyone, but they definitely mention it’s going to be. We went and looked at it a little bit further. It’s a great course, great opportunity for people to really launch themselves into and more of an actual career in real estate investing. So it’s cool.

Rob Break [00:19:43] So here it is our interview with the mothers of real estate. So returning to the show, we have Gillian Irving, Rachel Oliver, and Monica Jazzing, otherwise known as the mothers of real estate, and if you remember back, they were our guests on episode forty-one, which was two and a half years ago. Now it doesn’t seem like that long, but while it was that long ago. Welcome back, guys. We’re glad that you could all join us today.

Rachel Oliver [00:20:12] Thank you. It’s great to be back.

Rob Break [00:20:15] Now I’m going to jump right into something that I love. You guys got your own TV show since we last spoke. That’s pretty exciting. So let’s stick with that. How did that all come about?

Monica Jazyk [00:20:27] Well, actually, when we were originally out spreading the word, trying to encourage mothers, mothers to invest in real estate, we were doing a lot of appearances on other people’s television shows, which was fantastic because we wanted to make sure as many people as possible were reached and we really enjoyed the experience. We love how these television hosts were really, really doing a fantastic job spreading the word. We thought, hey, you know, wouldn’t it be interesting if we created our own show that had not just one, but three hosts or hostesses, I should say. And you know, we could make a more a more approach and get our message across for three points of view.

Rob Break [00:21:10] I was going to take a stab at it, is it called the view on real estate?

Monica Jazyk [00:21:14] It’s when you say that because that’s exactly what we were going for. We were totally going for the view type of approach. So three investor ladies, females have mothers sitting around kind of a kitchen table, which turned out to be in the end, more of a newsroom table, but just chit chatting about real estate markets happenings and having other guests on. So that was our first idea, and we presented that to Rogers. They accepted the idea. We had an amazing time presenting all our episodes. And sometime during that period, we were actually approached by a national producer who said, hey, why not take this nationally airing across Canada and some parts of the US? So that was another great experience. So we actually had two shows, not one.

Rob Break [00:22:11] And what were they where they call the same thing? Yeah. Yeah, what is it called

Rachel Oliver [00:22:16] the mothers of Real Estate TV show?

Rob Break [00:22:19] Oh, great. Nice and simple. Straightforward. That’s what you get.

Rachel Oliver [00:22:24] Yeah. And if somebody missed this on the air, on HGH, they could always catch us on our YouTube channel. We have some of the episodes posted on YouTube, so somebody just has to search mothers of real estate and will pop up.

Rob Break [00:22:38] Great.

Sandy Mackay [00:22:38] OK, so why don’t we go back a bit? Then let’s hear a little bit more about how each of you got started in in real estate. What’s been what’s been that process for all of you?

Gillian Irving [00:22:53] All right. I can start, I got started back in two thousand and nine, oh my gosh, almost 10 years now. And you know, I’d read that book Christian had poor dad and the whole idea, the notion that someone else could. Be paying off your mortgage for you to sound super smart to me, so I went for a run one day and I came back, and I said, Honey, we’re buying a house. And he said, why don’t you just want to go like right around the corner? So I bought this, this beautiful property, and a really UP-AND-COMING part of Toronto. And, you know, it was kind of on a whim, actually, and I refinanced the property two years later. And it’s funny that was when on my nerves about real estate investing really starting, I managed to buy this really great property kind of at OK. And then I was I was afraid to move forward. I wanted a strategy that was thought out because, you know, I have a disabled son. I have three other children, and I wanted to create kind of a strategy that could take me to the future. And so that’s when I reached out and then I got a coach. So I want to I feel like it was really a couple of years later that my true, true, true investing journey began. It didn’t really start with the house, but that one house. But that was the Segway, obviously. And so, yeah, that’s how I

Monica Jazyk [00:24:16] that’s how I got started. I’ve got a coach,

Rob Break [00:24:19] Monica, why don’t you tell us how you got started?

Monica Jazyk [00:24:24] Well, I got started investing in real estate. Very similar in a way to Gillian’s story. I did not go for a run, but I was experiencing I was reading rich dad, poor dad after experiencing how frustrating it really was, trying to do the things the conventional way. So we have four kids. I think we had two when I was trying to be a stay-at-home mom, I didn’t want to go to work. I wanted to be home with our children, and we were trying to do all the conventional things, getting by on one salary, budgeting and growing our money in mutual funds and just with our friendly financial advisor. And it really, really wasn’t working. 2008 came we it really wasn’t working. Then our negative results or even worse, which is when we decided, let’s take matters into our own hands. Read Rich Dad, poor dad. We’re so inspired and selfish ourselves about the very, very basics of investing in real estate and ended up going out and started buying properties on our own and eventually getting four properties one for each one of our children that we figured out how to fund their university education for these four properties. So through investing in real estate, not only did we achieve the goal of me being at home now for almost 14 years, but also for being able to fund those big-ticket items, such as their university education for four kids and also being able to, you know, like create our own retirement account rather than being dependent on this mutual fund market like we were doing before.

Rob Break [00:26:18] And so both you and Gillian have four kids. Yes. Yep. That’s amazing that you still can get all this stuff done because I mean, we’re going to talk about it in a little bit, but you guys have developed this really in-depth course and we’re going to go into it in a little bit. But that looks like a lot of work because there is a lot of really good information in there. So just the fact that you can juggle your families and still get all of that done, as well as very impressive. I got I have two kids and both boys and most recently over the last little while like they’re eight and six and they seem to be taking up an enormous amount of my time, mostly voluntarily, I suppose. But there is a lot of there is a lot of nurturing that needs to be done right now. So impressive that you guys are able to get all this done.

Monica Jazyk [00:27:12] We always say we have 10 kids. Yeah, no. We also have to clarify that we don’t live in a closed mind, and they aren’t going doing our own individual families and our own individual businesses with our own kids. But sometimes you find yourself saying that and then it’s kind of I don’t know how. Maybe it’s because I’m a visual thinker, but. People think we jointly have 10 kids, there’s

Rob Break [00:27:36] only 10 between them, they’re just all in the next room.

Monica Jazyk [00:27:43] Exactly.

Rob Break [00:27:45] Rachel, how about here? How did you get started?

Rachel Oliver [00:27:48] Well, so I have two kids. I have obviously less than Jillian and Monica, but my two little divas. Sometimes it feels like I have a house full of kids. They do take up an enormous amount of my life and that’s obviously something that I intended. And that’s probably the number one reason why I am where I am with regard to my real estate investing journey about kind of like Jillian. About 10 years, 10, almost 10 years ago, I said to my husband that I wanted to create more cash flow and have a little bit less dependance on our corporate jobs. Because as much as I love my work and as much as my husband loved his work, it really seemed to eat up a lot of our time and

Monica Jazyk [00:28:29] we couldn’t

Rachel Oliver [00:28:30] dedicate as much time to taking vacations, spontaneous outings. You know, once kids come into the mix, they really take precedence over everything else. And if I’m sitting in a boardroom in a meeting with, you know, my male coworkers and my male boss, and then I get a phone call from the daycare saying, your child is sick, you have to pick her up. I got to drop everything, and I run and run, and I remember just seeing the eyeballs kind of looking at me going, Really, you’re putting your kid first. Don’t you have someone else to deal with that? And it’s like, no, I’m a mom, and I got tired of justifying that. So. So for me, the cash flow was really triggered. After I became a mom, we had a two-year-old and I kind of said to my husband, Mr. Know who’s extremely conservative and really was kind of raised to think about, you know, you go to work, you get a paycheck and you know, you support your family. So when I said to him, let’s think a little bit outside the box, we don’t have to rely on our paychecks for our future. He really had a hard time wrapping his head around that. And then and then I said, OK, well, let’s try. We lived in Durham at the time we were in Ajax. So I said, let’s go out and start looking at some real estate properties because everybody kind of defaults to a rental property. And I thought, well, I’m going to be no different. I’m going to go house hunting with a real estate agent. And so we went looking at properties in Durham, and the properties that were in our budget seemed to have a lot of tenant and toilet issues that I did not see myself living with. They were cash flowing about one hundred and eighty dollars a month on average, and back then I thought, That’s it, I can really. I can’t really see myself replacing a six-figure income with one hundred and eighty bucks a month. And then if these weird tenants would do something to my property, I’d have to bring in a plumber to fix that toilet. And how many how many plumbers would eat up all my cash flow. So it was just kind of it didn’t seem to add up and we kept getting stuck in analysis paralysis. We kept looking at the numbers and running the numbers, and the numbers just weren’t making sense and I didn’t like people do it. And finally, we kind of stepped away from the idea because we just weren’t confidence and we moved off of the idea of investing in real estate. Fast forward 10 years the Durham market. Holy cow. It’s sizzling hot, and I and I really regret that we didn’t know enough back then to have made a move, but where we did end up was kind of cool out of necessity. I looked at other strategies that allowed a little bit more peace of mind and allowed a little bit more real cash flow. And that’s what brought me to the rent to own space. And we started focusing on that strategy. We pulled money out of our personal residence, and we invested in a few rental homes. And back then they were a lot more affordable because we didn’t have to have a big down payment. We have great credit. We had great jobs. It was really easy to convince the bank to just give us mortgage after mortgage, after mortgage. And then we tapped out and we started thinking, OK, well, we’ll sit on the sidelines and the rent homes to turn over well. And then we got phone calls from other people who needed our help. So we started helping them out by putting deals together and fast. Fast forward nearly 10 years, we’ve done over two hundred and fifty rent to own deals and going strong.

Rob Break [00:31:43] Wow, super impressive. So that is your strategy of choice and you’re sticking with it.

Rachel Oliver [00:31:49] Absolutely. I love the cash flow. In fact, I’ve been nicknamed a few times at a few places. The Queen of Cash Flow Because it’s true in today’s market, it’s really difficult to find cash flow that is above average, and we have adapted to the ebbs and flows of the real estate market with adapt it to the ebbs and flows of the financial rules and regulations, and we’re still able to generate strong return on investment, strong cash flow. So if it ain’t broke, keep working on it right.

Rob Break [00:32:18] And now red zones are sort of sort of looked at by a lot of people as let me rephrase that sometimes these deals don’t close, right because of extenuating circumstances or the or the. Buyers decide not to not to go through with it or whatever, have you had? Have you had any of those circumstances?

Rachel Oliver [00:32:44] We’ve in the beginning we certainly noticed that there was a few gaps, but we also figured out a way to close in on those gaps. When we first got started, the word on the street was that rental homes generate maybe a 50 50 kind of success rate, and that just wasn’t good enough for Neil and me. So we looked at gaps in the process and identified areas where we can enhance it so that we can get a stronger percentage of people finishing the rental process and exiting into their own mortgage. And so that our return on investment is as it was intended to be. So we have a 90 percent success rate, actually, Rob. We’re very proud of the fact that basically nine and 10 complete our rental in process successfully and exit into their own mortgage. And we have a pretty, pretty predictable cash flow and return on investment throughout the three-year rental term.

Rob Break [00:33:31] And when you say 90 percent like, I mean, actually the other 10 percent are not failures either, because basically you just go through the process again with the same house.

Rachel Oliver [00:33:40] Yes, you know, in some cases, it makes sense to sell the property. In some cases, it makes sense to put the property into a buyer and hold portfolio. In some cases, it makes sense to re rent to own it. There’s different things that happen for different markets, depending on the seasonality of when the rent own is not working. But most of the reason that we have a nine and 10 kind of success rate is because the people who are in the rental process have something that happens. So divorce and separation and job loss, those are things that are outside of our control and certainly aren’t impacted by the rental in itself. So if someone gets divorced or separated or separated or divorced, they can’t keep up with the monthly payments of the rent own commitment. That’s not the fault of the rent to own. That’s just something that they’re going through, so they step away from the rental and process in that case. That’s really the number one reason why a rent owns are not 100 percent successful. But if you kind of take the divorce and separated and jobless people out of the equation, we have technically 100 percent success.

Rob Break [00:34:40] Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm. And I mean, not only that, I mean for your company. It’s not like I was trying to get the point across that, you know, even if the house doesn’t sell like and then you have to sell it on the market because you’d rather sell it because it’s increased in value a certain amount more than you expected or whatever. And then the deal doesn’t go through. You know, I’m just saying that your 90 percent success rate is actually really a 100 percent success rate.

Rachel Oliver [00:35:09] When you’re right, you’re right, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. And the beautiful part is that if a rental does go sideways, if there is any volatility, it’s always it always still favors the investor side because the investor profits from the cash flow, that well-maintained property, because there’s no maintenance and repairs and around town. And of course, the tenant buyers that start the process come in with a down payment, a substantial down payment. So they have a lot of skin in the game and that money stays with the investor if they default or if they walk away. So there’s a lot of cushions there for the investor, which is why which is the number one reason why my very skeptical husband overcame his fear of investing in real estate because he had all those cushions in there. We needed a system and we needed to learn how to do it. So it wasn’t just like, you know, we turned on a switch. There was a huge learning curve and it involved understanding what kind of what, what’s the step by step and how do we rinse and repeat it in order to generate the returns that we’ve seen?

Rob Break [00:36:09] Mm hmm. Thank you for eloquently explaining what I was trying to say. So now that that works really, really well, and it probably has a tremendous success rate when you do go through boom that we just went through here. So I mean, that obviously favors the tenant buyer, and it does well for you, too. But what about in a market where things are flat? Like, how do you handle rent own in that kind of circumstance?

Rachel Oliver [00:36:39] So we generally don’t go into a market that has any potential for flat lining. When you focus on a strategy, you understand what is going to make that strategy successful. So there’s a very specific criteria that we look at in a specific market. And also the other aspect is that we play in a very specific price point when we’re kind of the entry level, you know, with rent to own, we’re not going after the seven eight hundred-thousand-dollar properties or even the $600000 properties we’re playing in a safety zone of about 350 to 450. So you have your first-time buyers, entry level buyers coming in and they’re causing demand. So there’s a lot of competition at that price point. And when there’s competition at that entry level price point, it ensures that the values are going to be constant. And in about two hundred and fifty rent to owners, we have not seen a market work against us. And again, we adapt the process because we’re focusing on markets that have the key fundamentals. I mean, I think every real estate investing strategy has to be at the mercy of understanding how those market fundamentals work. So. And then there’s unique fundamentals that apply to the rental and strategy. So we are not we are not because we’re so strategic and because we specialize in this, we are not anticipating that we will have those challenges. But if there is, anything can happen. And I know you’re trying to get to the what if question if there is any volatility there. The reality is the people that have put a down payment down on a property, they want to own it and they’ve been looking after it and caring for it. If there’s a downward market, the investor can sell that property. So the amicable thing to do is to ride out that wave, put together a lease agreement for the term of the downturn and then reevaluate when the market comes back up and enter a sales agreement. And that truly becomes a win in a crappy situation. That’s our approach.

Rob Break [00:38:37] OK, I like that. Well, I get it, so let’s hear about some other strategies. Monica, I know you do something a little bit different.

Monica Jazyk [00:38:45] I’m the boring, vibrant hall of the group. So like I said, we started off with four properties for kids and we learned a lot of lessons throughout our real estate investment journey. So when you export a book about it, real estate. And that’s kind of, you know, we started off on our own and then we kind of figured out. One mistake I did make was we were investing for cash flow. So we’re investing for cash flow initially because I was looking to replace that income. One thing I’ve really learned from it in our investment journey is investors. You always want to be cash flow positive, but you really don’t want to chase cash flow. It really is like Julie Brown’s books as more than just cash flow. So there’s a lot more about Byron Hall. It’s about buying more in those high growth areas. And I think the mistake we made was we reading in the books. We started on our own to move forward, and then we ended up over investing in forces which were really, really encouraging us to kind of chase that cash flow. Now they’re encouraging people regardless of the areas, whether what they’re ignoring is the economic fundamentals. So when we started out, we kind of started investing in an area that is a bit off the beaten map, which is Timmins, Ontario, which is a perfect example of how we had really, really high cash flow and we were actually very, very, very successful in that market. But later down on the line, say, five, seven years. One thing we really noticed was we weren’t benefiting from the appreciation. So when we went through all these mistakes that we might have hoped, we had to really stop and start over. We really are encouraging, investors like Rachel said, a more systematic approach in investing in real estate. You can invest in Byron Hall, but you’re never going to get really rich off the cash. It’s really hard to be financially free and replace your income just through the cash flow. The best thing that Byron holds real estate really is for is although you always should be cash flow positive, it really is more for those bigger ticket items in life. And the most amazing and powerful thing about Byron Hole real estate is one or two properties can change your entire financial portfolio. You don’t need to have 100 properties having a hundred properties, like having 100 hundred kids. So if you are looking for an active income replacement, you can do by rent roll and Gillian Unsubstantial is all about that through her specific strategy. Or, you know, mix up your portfolio with a rent to own and sell rental, as well as maybe a couple Byron properties. And then we’ll plan it. Really, you just have to make sure all see everyone’s in the right seats on the bus. If you’re doing long term planning. I think Byron holds great, but I’m just really here to dispel that myth. Chasing cash flow, none of areas. They look great on paper, but in real life, it doesn’t happen a lot of the time.

Rob Break [00:41:50] Yeah, they do say that appreciation is the icing on the cake, but you can sort of hedge your bets in your favor, right, by going to the right locations to buy the properties, outright markets

Monica Jazyk [00:42:02] and not just chasing. Chasing in these low broker is where you buy it for a thousand dollars. Five. Wow, that sounds great. On paper, it’s a cash cow, but in reality, no tenants are paying their rent. You go to sell it in five years and it’s still a hundred thousand dollars. Maybe it’s eighty thousand dollars if you overpay for it so

Rob Break [00:42:22] well, even if they are paying their rent and then you are getting good cash flow. Like you said, it’s so it’s worth the same thing in five or 10 years down the road.

Monica Jazyk [00:42:30] Yes, this is not going to away too. You know, even if you do, you know you have to respect the fact let’s pretend you are in a position where you do want to invest for cash flow, look like we have buildings, bring in thousands of dollars a month and they’re in lower appreciating areas. But it is what it is, so investors really need to have an eyes wide open approach. And also knowing what it is, yes, I understand that this market may be a little more volatile than Oshawa, you know. So maybe Windsor, for example, is a great market investments lower price point. You’re going to get higher cash flow, it is appreciating. But is it as secure as an investment? Is Berry or Hamilton or Oshawa? It’s not such a sure thing. So even if investors, when they’re identifying new areas, you just have to really take it for what it is. Don’t fool yourself with the cash flow. Just have an eyes wide, open, systematic approach to investing, for sure.

Rob Break [00:43:33] Very good. I like what we’re hearing from you guys so far.

Monica Jazyk [00:43:38] We aim to please

Sandy Mackay [00:43:42] all three of you that are different, different types of real estate and use different strategies. Jillian, what strategies you focus on.

Gillian Irving [00:43:51] Well, people think I’m the crazy one because I actually love student rentals. I’m sort of a hybrid of Rachel and Monica. Monica and I both have this like long term play in mind, but I love the cash flow like a rent to own. A student rental can often have super high cash flow as well, but you know, in my mind, these are bought hold for the long run properties in markets that are hopefully going to have great appreciation so that there were selected with the fundamentals in mind. But that strategy was chosen to go to have robust cash flow. So I bought houses where it was a single-family home that had three bedrooms and I put two more in, or it was a single-family home that had a big, wide-open basement. I put four bedrooms in there so I could force great cash flow out of these single-family properties and great and great locations, student rentals. People have this vision about it being, you know, bongs and parties in the living room couch ending up on the front lawn. And you know, they conjure up these images of Animal House and for good reason, right? There are some pretty crazy kids out there. But I in my heart and that’s born out of the statistics like university is the destination for these kids. Many of them are busting their chops all through high school and universities where they want to end up. And at the end of the day, really, they’re not going to not pay their rent. So in fact, renting phones is not something I worry about, you know, staying on top of maybe perhaps the damage is something that we have to be more mindful of. But there certainly are super easy ways to circumvent those issues. And you know, parents are now well used to being guarantors into ensuring that whatever damage happens is fixed and repaired. So, so student rentals for me is like this great hybrid between a juicy cash flow like Rachel wants and what the long-term play like Monica does. And then we just have to protect ourselves for the areas where we know there to be problems occasionally.

Rob Break [00:45:54] Gillian, do you manage your own student rentals?

Gillian Irving [00:45:57] Oh heavens no. Are you kidding me? No way. You know, I again. So this is about the cash flow rate, as some people are like, I want to extract every dollar of cash flow to this property. And why would I offload, you know, management to someone else? Because I want that, you know, 200 bucks a month or whatever the property management fees are. My feeling is that my time is better directed towards strategic thinking about my business. I let my property managers deal with that, the toilets in the tenants and everything else, and I have nothing to do with it apart from, you know, helping select the tenants and then that kind of stuff. But really, I try to stay as far away from the tenant issues as possible.

Rob Break [00:46:40] So as far as the management goes of the actual property, you’ve essentially got the same thing as anyone else that’s investing in like you don’t invest right by where you live, right? So you’re a little bit outside of that. So anyone that’s investing it a little bit further away is probably going to get somebody to manage their properties for them. It’s no different than to buy a student rental where you can get that great cash flow, right?

Gillian Irving [00:47:08] Yeah, I mean, I do. I do have a rental property actually right around the corner from where I live in Toronto now is the first property I bought, but I quickly moved away when I decided I want to land on the student rental strategy. So yeah, it’s Flemington, Hamilton, and there’s one in St. Catharines Welland, but nothing. No student rentals close to home.

Rob Break [00:47:29] Gillian, we’ve got some good opportunities in Peterborough to saying, Oh

Gillian Irving [00:47:33] no, I watch. I look at Peterborough a lot.

Gillian Irving [00:47:35] I know it’s a great town, strong fundamentals, good school, good schools.

Rob Break [00:47:40] Two of them.

Monica Jazyk [00:47:41] Yes, Deborah. Four Vibrant hold. There you go. If you add that basement, the great combination sounds like a favorite. Let’s do that.

Rob Break [00:47:51] It’s a commercial for Peterborough. OK, so what are we going to talk about next year? How did you guys end up joining first is we haven’t talked about that yet.

Monica Jazyk [00:48:03] No, my. How did we end up joining forces, Rachel?

Rachel Oliver [00:48:07] Well, I think a lot of it happened on that couch that you’re sitting on

Monica Jazyk [00:48:11] and lots of that’s. Stations.

Rachel Oliver [00:48:16] So I was reading the Canadian Real Estate Life magazine. There’s a nice little plug for our industry publication. And what stood out for me was an article about this amazing chick that there’s a picture of her with her four kids and her handsome hubby. And it talked about how she had a portfolio. I think it was 18 doors in 18 months. Is that correct? Is that what I remember? This is a few years ago, probably about three or four years ago. And like, I got to get to know that chick, she’s on fire. And there’s so few articles about women successfully pursuing the real estate investing journey that I just like. Oh, OK, earmarked it. And then one day I signed up for a meet up that I saw being hosted by a woman named Monica Jask. And I thought, Oh, that’s kind of cool. She’s hosting a meet up in the same place that I host a meetup which we’ve met our paths have never crossed, but we hosted a meetup for real estate investing in the same place. So I thought, OK, that’s kind of cool. I got to go. And the next thing I know, I’m getting a phone call from the same Monica Jask saying, hi, I notice you’re also a real estate investor. We should get together. We’re in the same area. Let’s meet up for coffee.

Monica Jazyk [00:49:25] And I thought, Wow,

Rachel Oliver [00:49:26] what a great thing. You know, she’s reaching out. Let’s connect. Why not? So Monica, basically, I gather Jillian and me at her house in Markham, and that’s where we started comparing worse stories about our journey and how lonely it

Monica Jazyk [00:49:40] was most of the time. Do you guys remember that? And how? How well we related to one another because there are so few female investors in the industry, but there’s even less women who are also mothers, and everyone needs to notice that we were mothers or for investors. Some female investors were investors, and then they became mothers, which is very challenging. But our unique challenge was being mothers first and foremost. So our underlying message for more really is if we could do it, anyone could do it because we have every excuse under the Sun not to invest in real estate. Parents don’t have any money. We certainly don’t have any time. Fortunately, we have the knowledge. So now we can help others. But we just kind of can relate to these obstacles. It was just so refreshing having a conversation with other female investors which could range from, oh, I did a twenty-million-dollar acquisition last week to my laundry. I left it in. I don’t know if I put it in the dryer and everyone laughs because they can relate. I mean, female investors who have kids have a totally different way of talking to each other. So.

Rob Break [00:51:01] It’s very interesting, too, that you guys all have your different strategies and yet you were getting together and being able to support each other in like in their own paths, not to sort of veer off and start doing things the same way. I like that.

Gillian Irving [00:51:19] Well, and we realized to actually this is I mean, even at the first time when we got together, we recognize that between the three of us, we had this really incredibly comprehensive view of the real estate world that our three brains together pretty much covered everything there was to know real estate wise. And we recognize really early on that that would make us such a formidable team to work together, right? Because we did have these specially these subspecialties each and. And so together, we were really, really strong team.

Rob Break [00:51:49] The whole exact idea behind a mastermind, right?

Monica Jazyk [00:51:53] And it just kind of happened. It all sort of fell into place. And that’s when we started inspiring and talking to people sharing. It’s like grandmothers, all investors, but three totally different stories like totally different reasons why we started doing this in the first place. But and totally different strategies. I don’t think there’s really an area that we really can’t provide counsel on, which is also quite unique.

Rachel Oliver [00:52:18] I think the obstacles are something that also bonded us, although we have very different strategies, and we are doing this for different reasons. We all and we all kind of shared the same issues along the way. And in fact, we even shared the same mentor and coach. We didn’t know this, but we all at some point or another, coached exactly with the same woman. Way back when. And so we were learning kind of the same, the same information and applying the same information, overcoming certain challenges. But the one thing that was the constant that really, really bonded us, I think, was our why we all had a very strong lie that was anchored in something that was deeply connected to us and that why is what allowed us to overcome all of those crazy challenges that we’ve encountered along the way on our journey? And there there’s always going to be challenges.

Rob Break [00:53:11] Yeah. And so once you left the couch, where did it go from there?

Monica Jazyk [00:53:17] We just took it on the road or a

Rachel Oliver [00:53:22] bit of a yeah, mother’s a real estate road show. And yeah, we were invited to speak at the local clubs.

Monica Jazyk [00:53:28] We did lots of podcast stuff.

Rachel Oliver [00:53:30] We were on various stages. Big, small. And we got to meet other people who could relate to our story, which was really wonderful. And we got a lot of, you know, a lot of great questions, people now. You know, once they could relate, they also wanted to understand, how can I learn? How can I do what you’re doing? Teach me. And as you know, as Monica said, as parents, as mothers, as successful business owners, we don’t have the time to do a lot of mentoring and coaching, but we still really wanted to put something out there to make it easier for women and men or parents in general to get into the real estate investing world and not make mistakes or not take, you know, not risk everything that they had. Because when I was doing those, I felt like I was risking the roof over my head, and I could not imagine that feeling again. So we wanted to save people the time and the agony of that. So we put together a course that people can access online.

Monica Jazyk [00:54:31] Now, they don’t have to go out to these weekend workshops, try to cram all that knowledge in for three days, pay an exorbitant price tag. We did keep it with parents in mind. They can have it delivered to their own living room and do it at their own pace. And we have a Facebook community where they can reach out. They can ask questions. We can have that ongoing support. So we were keeping people in mind with their busy schedules. Parents, non-parents, mothers. A real estate is just a real estate because we’re a mother. It really isn’t a program that’s just for mothers. It really is for anyone who is looking for the fundamentals of real estate. We just happen to be mothers, which is what the mothers of real estate. So. Mm hmm.

Rob Break [00:55:15] Yeah. I mean, I think that because I went through the course and we’ll talk about the course now, I went through the course, you know, you guys shared it with me and I thought that it was really, really comprehensive, and very. Step by step approach for people that are just starting out learning

Gillian Irving [00:55:35] that’s basketball, that’s just the idea, right, is that if you can hit your cart to somebody else’s wagon, if you can follow tracks, if there’s like a proven step by step system that you can do yourself, really, that’s what all of us is. Beginners want is just to kind of take the fear and the guesswork out of out of something. And that’s really what this course was designed to do, which was just to kind of show you step wise how to get started and then how to press forward without, you know, without all the fear components

Monica Jazyk [00:56:06] and the fundamentals is really all that these investors really need. It’s like when Warren Buffett says a four-year-old should be able to describe an investment model with grant real estate. There really is only one way to do real estate, and it all starts with these fundamentals. I think a lot of these expensive courses out there that we kind of took when we started out. The reason for our mistakes was that we kind of we seemed on the fundamentals when to a bunch of supersonic, intense strategies and focused on that, whereas in reality, to rest in real estate, the fundamentals need to be solidified first, and you don’t necessarily have to have some fancy schmancy strategy. I mean, I was doing about we did over a hundred transactions, our first-year estate and also went bankrupt. We’re doing very, very well, but we’re making a lot of mistakes. We didn’t have the support that we needed. We were doing too much too soon. And rather than focusing on the simple strategy. And that’s what I ended up getting us. Financial freedom is stopping, regrouping, doing the things that are taught in this course to create a very, very safe and sound real estate model. And that is what we rinse and repeat and follow, and we rinse and repeat it ourselves. The financial freedom opposed to our investor guru days where we thought we were so super important and we were running around like chickens with their heads cut off, focusing on all these fancy strategies. So, you know, you really should be able to explain investing. They’ll say all it takes is a simple, self-explanatory program because a confused mind doesn’t act. So we kept it as simple as possible. But don’t let that confuse you because there is everything you need to know to really to create your own real estate as well. So simple as it is, all the advanced concepts and training tools are in there. We’re just so good. We need it. And I just

Rachel Oliver [00:57:58] I just want to point out one, very one, very important thing. So on my journey, I mean, I’ve been at this for about 10 years, and I go to a lot of events, and I go to a lot of meetings, and I go to courses and member of various, you know, expensive clubs and less expensive clubs. And one thing that I’ve noticed consistently is that all of these venues, they are great for keeping you inspired and keeping you motivated and keeping kind of your hand on the pulse. But what they do tend to sidestep is that the steps, the actual recipe, how do you generate the rinse and repeat? How do you actually get off the ground? You don’t need a huge, expensive membership to a club in order to understand what the steps are and what the key fundamentals are. And then when you go to all these clubs and other platforms, you just enhance your knowledge rather than that being the place where you actually learn the steps. So that was missing for me, and that’s one of the reasons I really supported this passion project with the mothers of real estate to create a course that was really fundamentals oriented, very affordable and accessible, and I’m really proud of what we ended up creating.

Rob Break [00:59:15] OK, so now I’m just going to say, well, we’ll get into let’s get into a little bit about what is actually inside the course. But I was going to say, you know what? I really relate to that because when I first started going to real estate clubs, I had no knowledge whatsoever. I had one rental property that I bought pretty much by accident. But what I started going to real estate clubs, what I would do, this was my move. I would just nod my head as if I knew what they were talking about. You know, while these while these people were up talking about whatever they were talking about, of their strategies, like you said, and I had no idea what they were saying for the most part, but that’s the thing you can’t like. There’s not really a way for these investment clubs in that kind of thing to keep going if they only explain the same introductory approaches every single time. So I get I get why. But like you’re saying, it makes more sense to rely on a course that’s specifically designed for people who are just getting into it and want to learn the most important things in a in an order. Because I find that that is really important, too, is the order of which these things are taught in.

Monica Jazyk [01:00:23] Absolutely. And for anyone out there who’s watching and you’re going to these clubs, I mean. I run a very successful club; Rachel runs a very successful club. We have top notch speakers in this race, and we love doing our clubs, but I’m the first one to tell you people come there all the time. And if you’re hoping to piecemeal your real estate education together by attending meetup clubs, that is really, really not a good way to go about it. It is extremely difficult. You have to vet the credibility of the speakers. It may not be relevant so piecemeal. Different clubs and trying to figure this out all in your own. It’s really no different than going to the library and buying a bunch of different real estate books and kind of piecemeal all that together to some sort of mentorship or a course or in our case, a system really, really is required and really helps simplify that process for sure.

Sandy Mackay [01:01:21] And so the course is called the more confident real estate investor course, all right. Working people, working people to sign up and get registered for it.

Rachel Oliver [01:01:30] And Mother’s a real estate icon.

Sandy Mackay [01:01:32] I was a real estate icon. Yes. And for everyone who does do that, what are what are they going to walk away with at the end of it? Or are they going to have a step-by-step processes? What does that look like? What are they going to walk away with?

Rachel Oliver [01:01:46] Julie, do you want to jump in and give some highlights?

Gillian Irving [01:01:49] Yeah, so it’s I’m sure it’s so it’s a nine seven module course and it’s delivered. It’s delivered weekly, right? It’s delivered weekly. So it was it’s really our firm belief that if you just get a big data dump that you don’t have any time to digest it and think about it. So while you eventually have full access to everything, it comes to it bit piece, not piecemeal, but it comes you in a drip format so that you can think about what you’re reading, digest what you’re reading and then act on it in a really stepwise fashion. So, you know, it really starts at the beginning like helping you figure out where you are financially right? At this moment, it’s really hard to make a plan if you don’t know where you are. So it starts with a plan and helping you figure out your why and why are you entering into this then? It does big, deep dives into all the things that you need to do to find a market. Where are you going to invest? And, you know, saying you want to invest in Hamilton and you, you can relate to this, and it’s even having a great city isn’t necessarily the end of that process. You might need to find a really specific. Market right in Hamilton. Certainly, there are streets where you never want to buy, even though Hamilton in general is great. So we help guide you in finding a niche somewhere and finding or some market how to do that. And then it just it goes on from there. So, you know, there’s tools and workbooks and worksheets that help you find your market and find your property and then help you evaluate, are you going to choose between three or four great properties that might be out there? What are the things that you really need to look at that don’t often or don’t always appear on your realtors selling sheet, right? They don’t tell you everything, and they don’t put everything into their into their listings. Always so. So comparison tools. And then once you have a property, how do you protect yourself? How do you get free tenants? How do you maximize cashflow and minimize expenses? I mean, it really is a step wise course that will help take out the frustrations and the concern and the worry that you might have about either buying your first property or building a portfolio, and it really just gives you a stepwise approach to all of that.

Rachel Oliver [01:04:01] So one of the things that if I knew back then what I know now, when I was looking at those Durham rental properties way back when to try to start investing in real estate, all I would see is the paperwork that the real estate agent presented me, and it was just one hundred and eighty dollars a month in cash flow. Well, guess what? You know, there are ways and means to increase cash flow. There are very specific strategies, and Julian is a master at doing this with her student rentals. So just because you know the bottom line is it coming in at one hundred and eighty dollars a month? Well, you don’t take that at face value. So I often, you know, we often say this in our course is that great deals are found, they’re created. And when I was venturing into the world of rentals, I was only working from the mindset of take it as it’s being presented to me. And I was looking at it go well, I can’t find a great deal, so I’m just going to bypass this altogether. Imagine what my real estate investing journey would have been like if I jumped into all of those different properties and had those Durham rentals under my belt from the very beginning. You know, I would have obviously gone into a totally different direction. So understanding how to create a great deal and how to increase that cash flow is really key. And I think a lot of people underestimate that. So when we talk about you can’t find cash flow in properties nowadays, well, maybe at first glance they’re not cash flowing very well. But if you know what to do and how to do it, you’ll be able to create amazing cash flow.

Rob Break [01:05:31] You know, you know, this is really fantastic, guys. And you know, Sandy and I endorse this course, and that is the real reason why we want to have you guys back on is because you have this fantastic course to offer. So that being said, everyone knows where they can go to get it and very shortly that Sandy and I are going to be working with you in a way on this to help it help you, I guess, get it out there to more people. And so we’ll talk about that soon. And I guess I just have a couple more questions for you guys before we go. That’s OK. All right. Well, Cindy and I get a lot of comments from people who write into this show, and they always tell us we covered this, I guess, for the rent to own. But you know, they tell us that we are too optimistic and that the days of finding cash flowing properties are over. So what is your opinion on that?

Monica Jazyk [01:06:31] There’s a lot of ways to find cash flowing properties. They’re just not looking in the right spot. And real estate investing is not a growth, pessimism or even positivity. It’s a business. It’s about numbers, it’s about systems, and it’s about making it work. So we can guess, you know, until the cows come home, what’s going to happen or when things are always going to happen is you as a business owner of a real estate investment property? How are you going to protect yourself to invest wisely? So people do the research like we did discuss in the course, finding areas with strong economic fundamentals. You’re almost able to identify yourself with different areas throughout Ontario, Canada or worldwide, wherever it is to recognize the opportunities you have the tools to input these numbers and take our advice to kind of mitigate your risk factor on this and see where not everyone else is seeing. If you’re looking for everyone else is looking. You’re never going to be successful in investing in real estate. Now, my number one obstacle was I felt I had to buy the house next door. I live in Markham. House prices are very, very high. Even back then, when we started, it was still too high. The cash flow, the single-family property, I didn’t know what a duplex was. I mean, we were really early in the game. We were homeowners and we were just getting started on our journey. But at that point, my knowledge was pretty much zero about investing in real estate. And this is for other people out there. It’s just too overwhelming. Like I said, I can use my money. So if people know what to look for in these growth areas, they can not only find areas that cash flow, they have to be able to build their real estate model, meaning maybe a single-family property won’t cash flow in Berry or Hamilton. But what about illegal duplex? Or do we need to update to a triplex? Or should we focus on student rentals or rent to own? If you know the fundamentals, you’re able to implement any advanced strategy out there and you’re able to control the numbers regardless of what your route is that day, tomorrow, next week or ever. Let’s eliminate the motion and just focus on numbers and treat this like a business.

Rob Break [01:08:54] And you know what? I think I think you can. You could probably pick any market and then choose the investment strategy that worked there. And conversely, you could pick any one strategy and find the market that it works in. So if you’re not looking to change your strategy, then just find the place where it works that way.

Rachel Oliver [01:09:13] Everything is so cyclical, Rob, that’s actually really a very important thing. You’re pointing out real estate markets are cyclical, everything goes up, everything goes down. And understanding how to read the cycle is really part of being a strategic real estate investor rather than a reactive one. And people who don’t know the fundamentals, said Monica was alluding to tend to be in a reactive state versus one that OK, well, this cycle is kind of in its boom days and it’s going to be approaching the bust. So as it approaches the bust, then I can plan whether I’m going to go for a rent to own in that market or a duplex or a flip. There’s, you know, you basically deploy different strategies if you’re the kind of person that likes to do all different things, or you could be someone like me, I focus only on rental ones in certain markets. For example, the Windsor market for the longest time, the Windsor market was not ideal for rent to own. Now it’s going into a different cycle, and now there’s opportunities to do rental ins in that market, and we’re ready because we’ve been anticipating that market to be evolving. So it’s all about being strategic and knowing how to treat a market too.

Rob Break [01:10:22] Mm-Hmm. Yeah, I really like that. That’s one of those. That’s one of those questions where you know it just, I think the last show we were reading some of the emails that people put in and that was one of them. Somebody said, you know, stop talking about this, guys. For like most people in Canada, this isn’t reality.

Gillian Irving [01:10:42] So I think to that, you know, learning how to read a sale like a deal sheet and understanding that there’s nuances behind that. That’s kind of what of course helps with to its understanding how to create a great deal. So even if, Rachel, you’re talking about this, even if that you know, you’re listing agent says you’re going to get a hundred- and eighty-dollars cash flow or just you’re just going be cash flow neutral at 10 bucks. Well, how what are the things that you can do to enhance that deal? What are the ways to, you know, get a little bit more juicy revenue out of that house? What are some of the things you can do as a landlord to up the rents or to increase revenue and decrease those expenses? So, you know, as we say, the great deals are created. Not necessarily. And so we have lots and lots of advice on how on how to do that, even if you can’t see it right up front, right? Are sometimes admitted to. Yeah.

Sandy Mackay [01:11:35] So it’s really going to be a big, comprehensive dove into the basics, essentially, it’s going to get you get you get them started, but in the right way so they can utilize pretty much any of the strategies that we talked about.

Monica Jazyk [01:11:44] You know, you have to realize it starts with the basics to get this comprehensive, proven step-by-step system. But once they mastered that system, they are confident investor. There’s nothing stopping them from sharing their system with others, even through joint venture partners, in growing their portfolio that way as well. So the course does the fundamentals course. It does get as advanced as that towards the end of it.

Rachel Oliver [01:12:10] Yeah, it’s actually a very good point, so a lot of people start out with real estate without having a big stash of cash, I always say that my husband and I, we didn’t have a stash of cash. Our money was tied up in our personal residence. We had to pull it out as equity and then use that to invest. So a lot of people are in a similar boat. They’re thinking, well, I don’t really have the money to invest. So can I really make this work? Can I even get my first, second, third property and joint venturing is a great way of doing it, so you can be the, you know, the knowledge partner. You can be the sweat equity partner, but nobody’s going to partner with you if you don’t know what you’re doing because the people that are putting the money in there are going to defer to your expertize. And if you don’t demonstrate that you have expertize and you haven’t taken the time to educate yourself, then you’re not going to be successful in attracting money partners. So it all starts with, you know, what role do you want to play? And if you are going to be at the mercy of joint venturing, which is a very viable way to build up your wealth in real estate, then you’ve got to have the knowledge and do what other people are not willing to spend the time learning.

Monica Jazyk [01:13:13] So rather than going out and learning it on your own time, mastering your own system, this enables people to really master not one but two three investors, successful real investors who really have created this system. And it’s just basically what we’ve what we’ve used, and that’s all people really need. So why make the mistakes you can just start investing rather than guessing and going to the trial-and-error process that we all had to go through at one point in our journey?

Rachel Oliver [01:13:41] So they’ll never be in a position to write the same kind of book that Monica and her husband wrote.

Monica Jazyk [01:13:46] I hope not. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

Rob Break [01:13:52] Last question, guys. So at the end of the day, I guess hopefully people go, check out this course. Let’s give them a little bit of a takeaway of what one of the most important things I think is that they can learn from the course. And when somebody is looking at purchasing the very first investment, what do you think is the most important thing that they should know?

Monica Jazyk [01:14:18] I think that they need to make sure they’re buying properly. That’s the first thing they need to know wherever where it is, they decide who invest, whatever it is they decide to invest in. They need to buy their property confidently and properly. They have to make sure they’re not overpaying. They need to finance it properly. We have an amazing tool in financing those very, very need, and they need to make sure they know exactly they’re not going to lose money on this deal. It’s all about mitigating risk for these simple step by step process. It really gives investors eyes wide, open view of investing, especially novice investors, and not to take what real estate agents or mortgage agents are telling you, because I had that experience as well. And I hate to break it to everyone out there. And so I tell you mortgage agents and real estate agents out there who are listening, but they are salespeople and there are no one, some of them. You’re not with the right agent. They might be focusing on the sale. And like Jillian said, not listing all the pertinent information that really can make or break your deal. So I think buy correctly is the number one step I listen.

Rob Break [01:15:34] I was just going to say, you know, that’s what I would say. So I think that that sort of comes down to the team because if you’re talking about the financing in that, but I guess what I’m getting out of what you said there is you’ve got to have the right team as well that can guide you in the right way.

Monica Jazyk [01:15:50] And we have a right to all of those out as well building your dreams. I know it’s been done over and over and over, but this is a rock-solid team. And I mean, all of our businesses are thriving because of the teams that we’ve created. We know what it takes. I have 11 consultants that work all across Ontario. I’m with my team every day. And so having a team is definitely, you know, a huge, huge factor as well. Mm-Hmm.

Rachel Oliver [01:16:16] Robin Wright There’s also another aspect to it surrounding yourself with a great team is critical. But one of the challenges that I also found when I was starting out was that when a deal comes your way there, you know, there’s a very short shelf life in many cases, depending on the real estate cycle. Deals go quickly, properties get sold. Multiple offers happen. So there’s this kind of anxiousness about like, OK, we have this great deal. We’ve got to run the numbers. Oh my god, how do we like you have to be able to make a decision in a timely fashion so that you don’t lose great deals, or they don’t pass you by? And that takes a certain amount of experience and knowledge to have the confidence to spot a deal very quickly. You know, I can in five minutes or less, I can spot a great deal that that’s come obviously with Parsley School of hard knocks, partly with experience. But back then I found that. Without having the knowledge, without having the training, without working with a mentor with whom I learned the ins and outs of Brant Jones, I wouldn’t have been able to be confident enough to pull the trigger fast because fast is sometimes needed in certain market cycles.

Rob Break [01:17:30] Mm hmm. Yeah, I agree. Absolutely. Like there has been so many times where people should usually so people will get back to me in a week after we see a place or something like that and say, OK, I’m ready to put an offer in that place. I have one of my other clients bought it already. And that happens quite a bit. So yeah, I think that’s very, very important. While, guys, I think we’ve been through a whole lot of information here and I want to thank you guys again for coming on again. Really appreciate all three of you making the time to come on. That’s amazing. So thanks.

Monica Jazyk [01:18:09] Thank you, sir.

Sandy Mackay [01:18:12] And the website again for the course mothers of, correct?

Rob Break [01:18:17] Is it all spelled out like that, or is it do you have more or no, it’s mothers. Just mothers are mothers. The Great. OK, Cindy, how can people get in touch with you?

Sandy Mackay [01:18:29] Info at Macquarie LTE Network dot com or two eight nine three eight nine six eight four six.

Rob Break [01:18:35] Perfect. And you can find me, Mr. Ray, through A. OK, so again, guys have a great day, and we’ll look forward to talking to you again.

Gillian Irving [01:18:47] Fantastic. Thanks, Rob.

Rachel Oliver [01:18:48] Thanks, Andy. Thanks, you, guys.

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