Dave Debeau [00:00:08] Well, hey there, everyone, this is Dave Debeau with another episode of the Property Profits Real Estate podcast. My pleasure. Today to have Cameral and all the call. And Khyam is a very, very experienced real estate entrepreneur. Great story is based out of Winnipeg, focuses primarily on lease options or what's quite commonly called rent to own deals. Since he started focusing on that big profits podcast over his head of and his job for years, I read I'm still all he has the review here, but he got into much and created to deal with the rigors around in societies. Tell a story about how much it is in one outcome of interest in real estate demonstrations.
Cam Rowland [00:00:54] Yeah, it's going away. But Attraction always been interested in real estate owning a real asset. My father in law was actually doing some of the stuff I'm doing way back in the day, but on Handshake's. And so I got some inspiration there. But in two thousand and six I finally read Rich Dad, Poor Daddy that had been given to me. But I read it and I bought my first single family house. After reading the book, I took his basic principles about his condo in Hawaii, applied it to a house in Winnipeg and the rest was history. I filled it right away and I loved it. And cash flowed and I ended up getting four more doors in the next two years. And then from there, things kind of took off.
Dave Debeau [00:01:41] So what if you don't mind me asking, what were you doing prior to being a full time real estate investor? What was your thing?
Cam Rowland [00:01:47] Yeah, so I worked with a church denomination actually for a total of 17 years. A youth pastor had worked in a graduate school, as well as working at the Canadian headquarters here in Winnipeg. So I was doing that. I loved what I did, did a couple of probably three different roles in the in the seventeen years. And yeah. But it just felt like it was time to move on and real estate was the avenue to do that.
Dave Debeau [00:02:12] So you did that relatively quickly. I mean I know a lot of people to get start dabbling with real estate and they they have the dream of becoming a full time real estate person. But you did that fairly quickly. So how did you transition from a reading the book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, which seems to be the inspiration for a lot of people to buying that first property, to getting into rent to own, which is your primary focus now and then quitting the job?
Cam Rowland [00:02:38] Yeah, good question. So I would say right around the time I was closing the deal on those four doors, there are two duplexes. I thought, you know what, I got to get some education. And one of the rich dad events came through town. So I joined up with Tiger. But yeah, I got in with their kind of their basic package. And so, of course, they do the overview of all the courses. And I think the two courses I took were wholesale. And their initial I can remember was your basic basic one. And I love them. And I ended up buying more courses off of other people. I basically wholesale the courses and so I didn't pay that whole upfront fee that most other students do. But during that time they had introduced lease options. And I found it interesting. It was very different from what I had my mind set on. And so I got to the point in probably two thousand and nine words like I knew it was time for me to move on from my day job. And I had a couple of other options, like other jobs to go to. But I really wanted to do real estate investing. But it's like, OK, I've got five doors. Maybe I'm a little bit more by then, but it's like I can't that's not going to replace my income. You know, I was I was working like in a corporate position at that point. And so it's like, man, I'm going to do this. And then I remembered about lease options. So I hired a coach to help me do my first lease option. So that was start October in twenty nine. Pulled together my first deal with an investor, so no money down deal and got my first check from that lease option, a twenty thousand dollar check total two months after I started. And that was enough for me to convince myself and my wife that, hey, if I did if I did three or four more of these this next year, I don't need to have my job. And so I kind of built the parachute after I jumped out of the plane or kind of, you know, that 300 or so. Yeah. And so it was a challenging year, but it was a good year, man. I grew still growing. I mean, so that was 20, 10 in January that I finish up my my day job. Yeah. That's basically how I made that leap from from there to
Dave Debeau [00:04:57] to where I am now. Smart man. You got you got you convinced your wife. I know you are probably one hundred and ten percent on board right away, but getting the spouse on board is always a challenge. So good. No good on you for that. So you know, everything happens for a reason. I'm sure your path was, you know, went the way it had had to go. But if you knowing what you know now, if you were doing it over again, what would you do, if anything? What would you do differently?
Cam Rowland [00:05:22] Yeah, for sure. There's several things. One, I probably wouldn't have quit my day job so soon. Because Susan, quit your day job, your whole lending capability just goes out the window for a minimum of two years, but obviously there's other means. There's private money, there's JVs, there's, you know, what would I do with my lease options? No money down deals. But I probably would have held on a little bit longer and built up more of a portfolio and allowed that cash flow to build as opposed to using it right away for my for my living. I probably grew a little too quick with investors and with some ideals and didn't know my numbers well enough, and so those are three things. You know, when I'm talking with people are asking me for advice now and some of my students may ask that question. That's those are some of the key things. You've got to know your numbers from day one, because lots of entrepreneurs love putting the deal together. Dreaming up with the deal could look like number is an administrative thing and that's something that is key for long term viability. So those are the things that I would have done differently.
Dave Debeau [00:06:36] Well, well said. Well said. So I've got a little bit of experience doing rent to own deals as well. And I've done sandwich leases and I've done tenant first ringtones, what sounds like you do a bit of both. Would that be correct?
Cam Rowland [00:06:49] Yeah, I do a bit of both. I probably focus on the property first just because I've I've had tired landlords literally throwing their keys at me saying, I like what you're doing. I'm so sick of dealing with tenants my property can't sell. But you're telling me that you're going to pay me rent every month even if their tenant hasn't paid and you're going to buy it off me in three years? That's a perfect exit strategy for me. So I've had a lot of homes thrown at me. I would say for one gentleman here in Winnipeg, probably in the neighborhood of twenty five homes over the past five years, another guy who started with one and we met at a Starbucks, he had a ball of keys. He literally slithered across the table. It's like I don't know what all these keys are for, but I trust through years
Dave Debeau [00:07:34] now
Cam Rowland [00:07:35] that so. Yeah. So that's been an opportunity. So, yeah, it's you know, you so you're really you're putting up a sign saying, hey, potential rental clients, do you like this house or no. Yeah. And so there's pros and cons with both ways, but I've primarily done it that way.
Dave Debeau [00:07:50] I have done know what. And if I if I were to go back and do things differently, I think I would focus a lot more on that myself just because I, I find it a lot less risky than going to buying somebody's house and then hoping, hoping to God that everything turns out. Yeah. So I'm drinking the Kool-Aid with you there brother on that. All right. So I guess for those folks that aren't really familiar with rent to own or lease options or sandwich leases or anything like that, you know, we don't have a lot of time to go into it. But can you kind of tell us why you with so many different real estate strategies available, why do you like to focus pretty much exclusively on rental?
Cam Rowland [00:08:34] Question multiple answers, I mean, one, I, I love working with people, I like helping people. I mean, that's really what I did for 17 years prior to this. And so really what I do is helping people and it's about creative problem solving. And so I like this because of those things. Also increased cash flow. For me, that was a huge thing when I was in my day job. And it turns the whole environment hold on its head in terms of cash flow. So you don't necessarily do a lease option or rent own for long term equity gain. You do receive some of those benefits, but you do it for cash flow up front during it and at the end. So that's largely white. I've done it also. I get to work with a lot of investors. So I was shown a little bit before about investors who were throwing keys at me. I also the other investor I primarily work with is probably working professional investor who's got the income, they've got the down payment, they've got the ability to do mortgages, but they don't want to swing a hammer and they don't want to deal with tenants. And so I've done a ton of sandwich leases that way where we partner up and it's like a JV but different. All the paperwork is through kind of like five different contracts that I've got and it's just kind of plug and play. So investors like that like it because they can invest. They've got the ability to have a rental property, both none of the headaches.
Dave Debeau [00:09:59] So you get them to buy the property and then you do the rent with them. So it's kind of a client first strategy
Cam Rowland [00:10:07] with those investors sometimes. But I will also if I see a good deal on a house, I'll ring up an investor, a Texan. Got a deal. Are you interested? Even though I don't necessarily have a buyer lined up because because I see opportunity in this house. There's there's equity in the buy. There's there's I see it as a very solid house feeling that shouldn't be a problem. Yeah. Let's go ahead and buy it. So I've done a lot of that.
Dave Debeau [00:10:33] Nice. Yeah. So I know when I was doing the rent on business, my biggest challenge was finding, well pre qualifying tenant buyers. That was the thing that took the most time for me. Do you find that to be a big thing and have you found any kind of good shortcuts for screening people?
Cam Rowland [00:10:54] Yeah, could crush them in the beginning. That was crazy. I mean, I remember this one. I had a street sign on a fairly busy street. I had 100 phone calls that week, and most of them were like, I don't have any money to put downs, like, you know. So that's
Dave Debeau [00:11:08] easy.
Cam Rowland [00:11:09] Exactly. So. Yeah, in terms of that, I mean, pretty clear my and my website that's aimed at Rentoul clients, it's got a questionnaire basically trying to weed them through as quickly as possible without being rude. But, yeah, just kind of cycling through that, getting to the people who've got a decent down payment and have got a good income because we don't want to put someone in a house that the banks aren't going to qualify them anyways. And so, yeah, it's really a couple of things I've got online and just kind of weeding them through as quickly as I can there to get to the few that are potentials
Dave Debeau [00:11:48] and what have you. Because I've been out of the rental game for a few years now. What are you aiming for, for your tenant buyers to have saved up as a down payment by the time they're you're trying to get them into the house?
Cam Rowland [00:11:59] A minimum of seven percent down? Yeah, I would think so. Five percent down. Two percent for closing costs.
Dave Debeau [00:12:05] Yeah, absolute
Cam Rowland [00:12:05] minimum. And if they can do more awesome, I mean, if they can contribute more to the fund that I hold for them. Great. Or if they just want to do it on their own. Great. But I try to educate them and help them get to that point.
Dave Debeau [00:12:21] So before we started the recording here, Kamir, explain to me that you also do some training and coaching with real estate investors and your primary focus is on people that are looking for ways to create cash flow in your specialty is death Rentoul. So what are some of the the biggest challenges that you see people having when they're reaching out to you? What are the biggest problems they tend to have
Cam Rowland [00:12:46] reaching out to me in terms of other investors
Dave Debeau [00:12:49] or in terms of people who are interested in your coaching services?
Cam Rowland [00:12:52] Oh, yeah. I mean, it's everything from I mean, I get people who've never done a deal before that like my model because there's cash flow in it and you can do money, no money down deals. Probably the biggest client that I'm working with are someone who's got a handful of doors, whether it's one or five. And but they've put the down payment. They've qualified for the mortgage. They're going, OK, how do I grow? I'm I've hit a plateau. The bank is saying they won't give me any more mortgages. What do I do? So it's really a mental shift. And so that's probably my ideal student that I work with because they've got some experience. And really it's just turning a couple of dials a little bit to the right, to the left to help them dial in, attracting investors and frustrated landlords. And then just kind of the floodgates start to open at that point in terms of new deals.
Dave Debeau [00:13:46] All right. So without giving away all your super secret source, everything, what would be one action somebody listening to this could take to help overcome that roadblock of running out of cash and or credit to do more deals?
Cam Rowland [00:14:00] Yeah, I would say the key thing for me was essentially mastering my my elevator pitch. Right. So a lot of investors or a lot of entrepreneurs have got the confront and will you buy with me mentality. It's like that just scares everybody away. I mean, we all have people in our lives that are excited about something that they want us to buy, but they can make us feel uncomfortable. So the whole point of the elevator pitch is to throw some seeds of information that that the person you're talking to goes, oh, I'd be interested. So you can do that without even asking them if they're interested. And because the whole point of the elevator pitch is to do a coffee, the coffees to get them interested in a potential deal, et cetera, et cetera. So you got to start with the elevator pitch so that people are going, I want to find out more. When can we meet? That would be are
Dave Debeau [00:14:52] you ready, willing and able to give us an example of your elevator pitch? If you and I bumped into each other at a at an event, what? And I looked like I might be a prospect, what would you tell me? Yeah.
Cam Rowland [00:15:03] Hey, Dave, great to see you. I hear it's pretty cold there in Kamloops, but don't want to pay for it. Yeah. So thanks for asking. I'm I've been real estate investing, so I'm helping families who can afford mortgages or families who can afford mortgage payments but can't get a mortgage. And I help them get into homeownership. And I'm partnering with investors who who want to invest in real estate but don't want to have to deal with the tenant Clyde toilet and all that stuff. And my investors are getting anywhere from 12 to 18 percent returns on their funds. And hey, Dave, if you know of anybody who might be interested in that, send in my way. I'd love to be with them. I'll give you a referral fee and so great you.
Dave Debeau [00:15:49] Very nice. So I like you're not going directly after's. It's almost like one of those is probably not right for you Dave, but maybe if you know somebody exactly. Nice, nice, nice, nice. All right. Well we're just about out of time here. So if people want to find out more about Roland and what you're up to, what should they do?
Cam Rowland [00:16:07] Yeah, a couple of spots. So fairly active on Facebook, so. Island with a W and as well as I'm on Instagram, but on Facebook, you know, I do quite a few videos on stuff I'm doing and as well as you can find me on my website. Creative investor DOT S.A. and more information about lease options and coaching.
Dave Debeau [00:16:29] There are some very good. Well, it's been a great interview. It's always fun talking to fellow Renton enthusiasts, that's for sure. And thank you very much for your time today, my friend. Thanks, Dave. Appreciate it. Bye bye. Bye. Well, thanks very much for checking out the property profits podcast. And you like what we're doing here. Please head on over to iTunes, subscribe read us and leave us the review. He very much appreciated. And if you're looking to create a regular flow of inbound investor inquiries about your real estate deals, then I invite you to attend one of my upcoming live online demonstrations. And you can check that out at Investor Attraction Demo Dotcom Ticker.