Table of Contents - What NOT To Buy & Hold with Patrick Francey
Dave Debeau [00:00:09] Well, hey, everyone, this is Dave Debeau with another episode of the Property Profits Real Estate podcast today. I'm very, very excited to be chatting with Patrick Francey, who is the CEO, also known as the Chief Coke Bottle Washer, the real estate investment network, R.E.I.N, which is Canada's premier real estate training company. I think you guys have been around the longest. You're definitely the biggest. You're the most nationwide, that's for sure. I've been part of rain. I've known of rain since day one of getting involved in real estate investing when I came back to Canada in 2003. Fantastic organization. And Patrick Franci is the CEO. He's also a very, very established and accomplished real estate entrepreneur and entrepreneur in his own right. He's a father, a husband, a grandfather and an all around good guy. So welcome to the show there.
Patrick Francey [00:01:05] Thanks, Dave. That's a great introduction. So thanks for that.
Dave Debeau [00:01:08] So, Patrick, for the three people that might be watching this who have never heard of rain or some of our American friends, friends, can you tell us a little bit about what is the real estate investment that
Patrick Francey [00:01:20] you all to? Short and sweet? As concise as I can keep, it is. Twenty seven years we've been teaching real estate investors how to invest in real estate. So through education, understanding the economic fundamentals that drive a real estate market. So there's two parts to it. Rain is all about. One is the education, the housing, the strategies, the tactics. And then the the deeper part of it is we're actually now with what we always have been, but even more so than ever, we are the leaders in the economic research and analysis that really plays to real estate investors. So we're always looking into the future. And then we look at all sorts of aspects around economic fundamentals and research. And that's really the game that we play. And we do it world class.
Dave Debeau [00:02:03] Yeah, you definitely do. I mean, you guys have a whole team that are focused on looking at the different markets across Canada and getting up to date information on what's going on and then allowing people to look behind the curtain, as it were, as to what you think is coming down down the pipeline. So, yeah, it's phenomenal, but your research is phenomenal. OK, so let's talk a little about yourself. For those folks that don't know you, tell us a little bit about your wild and wonderful journey through real estate investing.
Patrick Francey [00:02:33] Well, my wild and wonderful journey through real estate investing started back in two thousand one. So I've been a business owner for thirty five years, owned businesses in Alberta, retail businesses, a company called Pro Skat, which I've had literally for thirty five years. My wife also owns a business. So we're in this world of high performance skating, hockey, figure skating and Olympic coach and the mental performance aspect of working with athletes. But our game started in real estate back in about 2000, technically nineteen ninety nine. But it took me a while to get started because this false starts and should I. And what does it all mean? Long story short is as a business owner, I was having many conversations with other business owners and along the line when I started to notice about some of the people that I looked up to in business, people who were in some cases multi multimillions in their business. And one thing they all had in common, which was they all invested in real estate, regardless of how well their business was doing. And totally, you know, they could be in a totally different industry than real estate, but they were investing real estate. So I did catch on to that. And I said, well, why would they emulate that? So I started looking at real estate. I was born and raised in Edmonton, although I live in the Lower Mainland today and have for about eleven years Fraser Valley, to be specific. But ultimately I started investing in real estate back in two thousand one because of that, when I realized that as a business owner, my future and my future retirement is how I looked at it back then was not certain given I was just a business owner. And can I my business, how would that happen? So along the way, I decided I was going to learn how to invest in real estate. I came across real estate investment network ring and became a member of rain back in two thousand one. And that's what it was, was a member of my journey was I started investing in real estate in Edmonton back in two thousand one. But our first piece of real estate back then and over the years got to know Don Campbell. And then long story short, you know, like the business so much, we bought it. So that's kind of that old that whole story in that regard.
Dave Debeau [00:04:35] Excellent. Excellent. So I find that so interesting is I've seen that time and time again as well. Patrick is somebody who invests their time and they're all of this energy and effort into building up their business at the end of the day, when they sell it or they invest themselves of it. Quite typically, the only thing that's really valuable is the property that they own. I mean, we see it time and time and time again. That's not to say that the business wasn't good. I mean, it provided cash will allow them to live and buy the property. At the end of the day, quite often, more often than not, from what I've seen. It's the actual physical property that they own,
Patrick Francey [00:05:14] that's where it that is a business owner yourself, you realize that as much as we have intellectual property and as much as we have maybe systems of and there's some value in that to somebody in a future, perhaps, that they want to buy that business and take it and carry on. I did that with rain, as a matter of fact. But ultimately, the security or the certainty financially that we want as business owners, as entrepreneurs or not having that hard asset called real estate over a long term is a really nice gain. And it's something that we can hang our hats on in the future.
Dave Debeau [00:05:48] Yeah, most definitely. So, Patrick, as far as your own real estate investing goes, what's kind of your your focus, your niche?
Patrick Francey [00:05:56] You know, it started out I was very hands on back back in the early days. So we were doing buying gold. I was buying condos and bungalows in Edmonton at the time. The financing was easy. I assume mortgages. We used all sorts of techniques to buy real estate, acquire real estate. But it was always a viable strategy over a period of time, as I got very busy in my business, says, I then became my strategy was still kind of in that buy and hold. But we want to do some agreements for sale. We did some rent to own, but I was primarily the capital partner, not knowledgeable capital partner. I wasn't a I don't know what you're doing here. Some money go. I actually was making decisions based on whatever that strategy that somebody was presenting to me. So I was assessing their competency, their reliability, their ability to pull it off. And then I was investing in real estate in that regard. And so I became more the capital partner than in the trenches partner. But my experience was in the trenches. It morphed into being the capital partner and being an investor kind of at a distance, but still very involved.
Dave Debeau [00:07:00] Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense, especially seeing that you've got your ear to the ground. And quite often, quite frankly, you've got a ton of very, very astute real estate investors that are part of the group. So that just makes sense. So, Patrick, let's talk a little bit about your experience within rain. And I know you've touched on this. I mean, the educational focus of the group is phenomenal. What do you what do you think are some of the biggest mistakes you see people making when they first get started in real estate investing?
Patrick Francey [00:07:37] Oh, man, that's a loaded question because there's a lot of things that give them where they start. So, you know, primarily what we've come to realize this many years later. So I've been a coach as a coach, not just in in real estate, but in performance and business and all sorts of things for almost twenty five years. And what I realized is I've worked with literally now individuals, probably hundreds, perhaps thousands, but from stage in a group setting, literally thousands of people. And I spoke with and have many conversations with real estate investors across the country because it's part of what we do know. Common themes that happen is people are always looking, give me another strategy. I need more strategies. I need more tactics and strategies. And you work tactics. Tell me how to do. I need a mentor like this, this repeat of stuff. There's a cliche saying that we like to use, which is more information was the answer. We'd all be billionaires with six packs. Right. And the reality of it is, is that it's the very important component of it. But if there was a common theme and mistake is that people aren't putting themselves in the right environment, surrounding themselves in the culture and in the right community, you need to be surrounded by like minded individuals. Now, that is a bit of a sideways plug for rain because that's what we do for sure. It's not even sideways. It's direct. It's why rain members, we've transacted over five billion dollars worth of real estate. So we have a track record for it. We actually thought it was more about education, more about tactics, more strategy, because we do all of that. But as we started looking and speaking and having conversations with real estate investors, it really was being plugged into a community, being plugged into a group of people and would be a mastermind, by the way. It could be anything. So don't try and do it on your own. You know, get the education, get all of that. But I still would say don't try and do it on your own. You have some experience around. You have some advisors, some guidance, some people who are in it. Then get the hell out of your own way, you know?
Dave Debeau [00:09:37] Yeah. Wise, wise words. I agree with that. I mean, obviously, if people are trained, that's great. But even if that's not the case, get plugged into some sort of a real estate investment club in your area. Hang around other people that are actively doing it because you're so right there, Patrick, because I've seen it over and over again. Somebody gets keen about this. They get some education about it, but then their friends and their family and they're the cohort that they're with kind of quashes those dreams and those aspirations because it's out of their context. It's out of. Our wheelhouse, as it were, so, yeah, hanging out with other people that are actively doing it makes it much more real for you.
Patrick Francey [00:10:18] There's the key there, Dave, you said it is that are doing it OK. You know it and I know it in this. We've been in the industry a long time. So over the years, you see all the social media experts that are going on in the Facebook and the YouTube. And, you know, there's all these places to go to free meet ups. The whole free meet up thing is, you know, generally and I want to use more than generally, but I'll use a general term. There are individuals that are at the front of the room teaching people how to invest in real estate, but they have a fundamental agenda. They've got real estate to sell you. And so there's no unbias. They're going to teach you a strategy. And oh, by the way, I've got the perfect piece of real estate that perfectly fits that strategy. And I'm not making any of that wrong, by the way, like none of it, but because it's an effective way for realtors to generate leads and to sell stuff. So let's not make it wrong. And I'm not. But having said that, if you're that individual who's trying to get the education know going in that there's an agenda there, that's the one thing about rain that has always been different is that we don't sell real estate. I don't make a dime more money if you go out and buy millions of dollars worth of real estate. So I'm pretty unbiased with it. All I want you to do to succeed. So I'm going to give you the best source of education, the best tactics and strategies proven. We've done that for many years and then support you where you need to be support.
Dave Debeau [00:11:41] Very good. So, Patrick, again, you've been doing the real estate game for quite a while and you've been surrounded by hundreds, if not thousands of of real estate investors across Canada. It sounds like you got things off on the right foot right from the get go. But looking back at things, knowing what you know now, is there anything that you would have done differently besides starting earlier?
Patrick Francey [00:12:04] Well, yeah. You know something? I've made so many mistakes. I don't I do a segment with rain with my my partners, Doug Franker, and we call it missing billions and missing millions as all the opportunities you didn't take and or the mistakes are made.
Dave Debeau [00:12:19] So having said, that sounds like a fun thing to rehash, doesn't it?
Patrick Francey [00:12:23] Just makes you realize just how much opportunity there is. So it's always in hindsight that we're geniuses, you know, did I make a lot of big, big mistakes? You bet. So if I was to do it again, I would have bought Newar, you know, I wouldn't have taken because my strategy was buy and hold. But if you're doing buy and hold and you buy an older property, you hold it, then you have to then realize that in five, seven, 10 years, whatever it is, there's going to be a renovation. You're going to have to put costs into it. And those properties just keep getting older. I would have bought newer Porsche and or I would have put I would have bought differently and spent more money up front to bring that property up to current like got it. Rebuild it, do those kinds of things. So I think I mean, there's many mistakes or there's many things I would have done differently. But that's probably a primary one,
Dave Debeau [00:13:11] you know, and I think a lot of people have made that mistake, you know, inherited. Yeah. Or inherited those kind of mistakes or something like that. But yeah, that's that's something I've heard over and over again. Patrick, is that that whole thing? You know, it seems like a good idea. I got a bargain on this property. I got it. X amount under market value supposedly. But yeah, you end up buying a piece of crap that's going to cause you so much headache and expense down the road. Plus, again, if you're buying crappy properties, you tend to be attracting that kind of tenants as well.
Patrick Francey [00:13:47] So, yeah, that's one of the bigger problems with that is that you've got is that we're buying all the properties and a lot of times that's because of location. All the properties are often really desirable locations because of the way a city expands. So I qualify it buying newer properties in great locations, which is always what we're looking for. But if I'm buying older properties in great locations, I would have waited for the right deal in order for me to come in and renovate that property, bring it up to New York.
Dave Debeau [00:14:16] So that makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. All right. So, Patrick, we just got a couple of minutes left. If you could tell our listeners, you know, if they say, hey, this sounds kind of interesting, how can they find out more about you? How can they find out more about rain, maybe dip their toe in the water, that sort of thing?
Patrick Francey [00:14:34] Well, Rain Canada Dotcom, our website, our real estate investing in Canada. Dotcom is definitely a direction to go. I have an email. I'm still very hands on. And so CEO at Rain Canada, also CEO at ARIA in Canada is a great way to get a hold of me. And I will direct people happy to do that always. And that's primarily where you want to go. Those to our website.
Dave Debeau [00:14:56] Perfect. That makes sense, Patrick. It's always a lot of fun. I want to thank you very, very much for being on the show with me this episode for sharing your experience and your learning experiences. That's for sure. Thank you very much.
Patrick Francey [00:15:08] Thanks, Dave. Appreciate it.
Dave Debeau [00:15:09] All right, everybody. That's it for this episode. Stay tuned for the next one. Take care. Talk to you soon. Well, thanks very much for checking out the property profits podcast. And you think what we're doing here. Please head on over to iTunes, subscribe read us and leave us to review it. Very, very much appreciated. And if you're looking to create a regular flow of inbound investor inquiries about your real estate deals, then I invite you to attend one of my upcoming live online demonstrations. And you can check that out at Investor Attraction Demo Dotcom Ticker.